L4 versus L2

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Size15's said:
Lets leave the name calling and such out okay
In public is not the appropriate environment for such behaviour
Thanks

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Sorry Al, it wasn't meant as name calling. He is in HS and well, I can say with certainty that he is a child in my book. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'd venture to guess I'm over twice his age. Unfortunately /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Seriously though. It is just a testament to the graditude of people when they respond the way he did to a well meaning post. The likes of "how about not replying to any posts unless your input is relevant and wanted" in an openly addressed question really is uncalled for.

As a matter of fact, you answered this exact question for Ian just a month ago!

Rant mode off. No mas.

Now to answer the question he really want to know. Keep the L4 or sale it for a loss and get a L2. I'd say keep the L4, get a few pilas and McE2S because I feel he will be disappointed in the lack of difference in output (and possible less if he already got a ringer). What do you think Al? Neither is a thrower and it seems that is what he is expecting the transition from L4->L2 will provide. The pilas make the loss of low mode regulation no big deal and the L4's length is better for front pocket carry. If you want *real* throw, forget LED or any pocket light ___at the moment__. My thoughts, HTH.

-Craig
 
With all due respect to Don's gizmos I just don't like the feel of the two-stage switches he makes (I've not tried them all by any stretch I must point out).
Additionally, I prefer the slightly larger diameter and body length of the L2.

As for Pilas, I will give the L4 (and likely a type of E2L) a try once I get a UK power supply for the Pila kit I have. Traditionally I've not been into rechargeables.

So my personal opinion is that the L2 is significantly better for me than the L4.

I can see the appeal of the the L4 (+Pila & Gizzy switch) combination. It's just not for me
 
The size has always been a significant factor for me.

The L4 puts out a great deal of light for a pocketable/concealable light regardless of the power supply.
 
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Traditionally I've not been into rechargeables

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I've been in that same mindset too for a long time.

Even the the NiMH 3200mah stick I have for the ultrastinger was dead as a doornail after sitting for a month or two is further proof that rechargables are not something you want to depend on.

Li-ions make me feel better but I still have my concerns. Storing them at 25C (77F) at 100% charge is enough for them to lose 20%capacity a year. Not charge but unrecoverable capacity! Now you can decrease the loss rate to only 4% by keeping them charged to 40% capacity but you then have a battery with diminished time of use


So what is my current(*punintended*) relief? Use li/ions bare or I put a chip on it/them and treat them as multiuse disposables but always have a fresh set of 123s around. Regulated multistage or low draw LEDs at least given me a little certainty that I won't be left in the dark. Forget that with withc incand lights
 
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Size15's said:
With all due respect to Don's gizmos I just don't like the feel of the two-stage switches he makes (I've not tried them all by any stretch I must point out).
Additionally, I prefer the slightly larger diameter and body length of the L2.

So my personal opinion is that the L2 is significantly better for me than the L4.

I can see the appeal of the the L4 (+Pila & Gizzy switch) combination. It's just not for me

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Hey, since you have both an L2 and an L4, do you notice any significant difference between the L2 on high, and the L4?

BTW, I completely agree with you about the L2 vs. L4 - which is why I have an L2. My point to the OP was that since he's already got an L4, he might as well try to make the best of it and get pretty close to the benefits of the L2 without having to shell out for a new light. Especially since none of his reasons for wanting an L2 lined up with what I consider to be the advantages of the L2. (He's looking for a marginal increase in output traded off for a marginal decrease in runtime.)

I guess you could also look at it as throwing good money after bad - not that the L4 is bad, not at all, but if a person just doesn't like it, then spending more on it might not make that much sense.

What I think the OP really wants, but doesn't know it yet, is an L6... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif I doubt the lux V in the L6 produces more light overall, but it throws way better than an L2/L4. Anyway, if I wanted "brighter" in an LED *and* wanted SF, that's what I'd get. (My L6 was the first SF light I purchased, and I've been extremely happy with this light.)

Or I might be tempted by one of ElektroLumens multi-luxeon LED creations. Or maybe I'd just wait for the state of the art to improve, so I could buy a light that's both signficantly brighter and substantially more efficient...
 
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Or maybe I'd just wait for the state of the art to improve, I could buy a light that's both signficantly brighter and substantially more efficient

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Outside of satisying our OCD, you will not find anything appreciably better thant the L2 for a long time. I doubt a 500lumen version would be that much better than the L2/L4 is now. It would be more impressive but the L2/L4s perform their tasks that well.

When a better led comes out, I will just put a new emitter on the light and jack with the reg circuit. The L2/L4 are awesome and even though we get caught up in wanting max throw, the ability to light up a room like the l2/l4 can is what makes them infinitely more valuable than the high power throwers. Well the U2 is my favorite with the better twightlight performance and lower level level but guess which is in my pocket now? L2

The only thing holding us back is the lack of a 2000+mah RCR123a. A single cell body length L2 would be very nice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I have one L2 and it appears to be more overal light compared to the various L4's I have. The difference is not obvious in the same way the P61 is obviously more light than the P60.

Al
 
Thanks! That's what I would have expected. It is nice to hear from someone with first hand experience on the matter. On the one hand, the extra output doesn't sound like that big a deal, on the other, well, there's one more reason I'm happy I got an L2 instead! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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Luna said:
A single cell body length L2 would be very nice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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There is. It's called the L1! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Luna, get over it.
Anyway, thanks for the information-all of you. Now I have a much better basis for my decision between the L2 and L4. Since I now have credible proof that the L2 is brighter than the L4, I will look into buying the L2.
-Ian
 
Well, I'm through arguing in favor of a light I didn't choose for myself! I try to be fair, but there's only so far you can go...

Maybe you'll end up being an L2 type of guy instead of an L4 type of guy. You will probably enjoy the L2. (Hopefully the slightly shorter runtime on high compared to L4 doesn't bug you.) I like mine quite a lot. I think it's a great light, and that someone really can't go to far wrong getting one. I still bet that after you get it you use it on the low level most of the time, with only occasional bursts on high. But let us know when you get it, how you use it, and how you like it. I'm quite curious!

Best of luck! Perhaps you can work a trade with an L2 owner who really wanted an L4 afterall, a win-win situation for all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
thanks.
You said that the runtime on high for the L2 is shortened? It does not run an hour on 100 lumens? If not, does it still run the supposed 18 hours on the lower setting?
Could you get me a beamshot of the L2 on high, anyone?
Thanks!

-Ian
 
If I recall correctly, just looking at the runtime plots on it vs. an L4 I saw someplace, it looked like the L4 got ~50-~60 minutes before it dropped out of regulation, and the L2 got about ~40-50 minutes. I think the L2 was just a bit over an hour before it hit 50%, the L4 was more than an hour. It wasn't a big difference between the two - 10 minutes or so. But you don't get brighter for free.

I've never really worried about the high-beam runtime because the low beam lasts a long time. I don't know of a runtime plot on it, but it does last hours, I am sure of that. Out of all the lights I have that I use regularly, the L2 is the one where I change batteries least frequently.
 
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MrBenchmark said:
But you don't get brighter for free.

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I agree!

The L2's higher output does result in a shorter runtime. That said, I believe the concept of the L2 is a long runtime low output flashlight with a high output option (like the 10X is).

Al
 
KJ's plot on the runtime of L4 vs L2


The L2 is driven harder too. If I had an L4, I'd just muck with the regulation and jack up the drive current or run R123s. Of course you could alway replace the emitter with an Xbin when they become more prevalent /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I personaly like the L2 over the L4, although I own niether of them. I like the idea of a 15 lumen low stage, which is regulated, and a REALLY high 100 lumens high stage. I am waiting on mine to come in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

-tom
 
So, Benchmark, do you think that the L2 really shines at 100lumens for at least 45 minutes, or is it less in either the ouput of 100lumens or duration of 45 minutes? 100lumens? It is that much brighter than the L4's 65?
Would you recommend the L2 for camping? Does it throw?
Thanks!
-Ian
 
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Surefire_Rocks said:
So, Benchmark, do you think that the L2 really shines at 100lumens for at least 45 minutes, or is it less in either the ouput of 100lumens or duration of 45 minutes? 100lumens? It is that much brighter than the L4's 65?
Would you recommend the L2 for camping? Does it throw?
Thanks!
-Ian

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100 lumens - I dunno. My light measurement apparatus is my own, uncalibrated set of eyeballs. So I'm not sure I could reliably tell you the difference between an 80 lumen output light and a 120 lumen output light...

I don't have an L4 to compare to the L2. Al thinks the L2 is brighter, so I'll have to take his word on that.

Runtime of 45-50 minutes on high sounds about right for the L2. It's a little worse than the L4 there, but not a big deal.

Yeah, I think an L2 will work very well for camping. The low beam will be highly useful out in the dark countryside. I suspect you'll rarely use the highbeam. No, it doesn't really throw that well - it's a "wall of light" - a flood. Given that they use more or less the same reflector, I'd expect the L4 to produce more or less the same type of beam.
 
ok thanks.
Oh, and if you visit my post on the selling of my L4, do you think that I am being fair by selling my slightely used L4 for $120 shipped with an extended clip? (I have not been getting much attention from others there.)
Thanks again.

-Ian
 

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