LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

[Turbo DV8]

After averaging one user review per day for the past few weeks, all of a sudden there are 7 new user reviews within an hour giving 5 stars ane one with a 4.

9 reviews today!

Just enough to get the last 'Meltdown' Report off the first page (it's now Review #11). Fishy indeed! :shakehead

P(dud + okay) + P(okay+dud) + P(dud + dud) = 2*(0.01*0.99) + 0.01*0.01.

That is roughly 2% which means that you have a roughly 98% probability of not getting any faulty units.

It all makes perfect sense! Due to the increase in melt down reports, people flocked to buy them, and they just happened to be the 98% who had good luck!

 

[Apollo Cree]

This does remind me that I really need to set myself up a battery/charging station with some sort of a fire resistant enclosure, storage, etc. Even thought I don't have any BC-900x chargers.

 

[uk_caver]

It all makes perfect sense! Due to the increase in melt down reports, people flocked to buy them, and they just happened to be the 98% who had good luck!

It'd be interesting doing an experiment - in a while, someone who honestly has had a bad experience posts a comment without telling anyone else, and then looks to see if there's another flurry of positives.

On a more general note, who are the people who write a review for something they've only just bought, which they know little about and haven't really worked out how to use, giving it 5 stars. Why would they think anyone else could find their review remotely helpful?

 

[Bones]

Planned or not, that mini-flurry of positive reviews on Amazon has just been topped with one relating yet another melt-down:

Junk, January 7, 2010
Well, I purchased this item without fully reading the reviews. Read reviews after purchase and many of them stated that this item overheats and was dangerous. But some stated that this occurred with an older model. Well, I received the 9009 model. I did an initial charge/discharge cycle of the new batteries as per the instructions. This took a long time. Had to stop/start because I didn't want to leave it charge while I wasn't home. While they were charging, the unit overheated. The LCD screen developed a black spot from the heat. Also, the two middle buttons on the unit sunk down into the unit (presumeably from the intense heat melting the plastic inside...thus the buttons lost support). A plus for Amazon though. I contacted them about the product failure and they sent me a prepaid return shipping label. They credited my account after receiving the charger. I can only speak for my unit...this thing was a disaster waiting to happen. The possibility for it to cause damage or a fire existed. Luckily, I read the reviews (which I should have done prior to purchase). I placed the charger while charging for fear of it overheating. If I hadn't done this, it could have damaged my counter top. Gave it one star because you have to rate it. Would have given it no stars.
...

Some encouragement for those who're wondering if it's even worth their while to report their melt-downs:

Too Many Reports, January 7, 2010
I ordered the BC-9009, and while waiting for it to arrive started reading the many user reports on Amazon, and elsewhere on the net regarding this device melting, i.e. safety issues. Please do your research, and then make a decision. I returned mine as soon as it arrived. It didn't make sense to take a chance wondering if I'd be the next one.
...

Incidentally, if someone with posting privileges on Amazon is so inclined, the following comment would benefit from a reply with a reference to the event linked below it:

How safe are the BC9009 (v35) from melt downs ???? January 6, 2010
NLee the Engineer says:
All rechargeable NiMH cells have built-in pressure-relief vents. In case of severe over-heating, they may release gas or even leak electrolyte. But they are not going to 'explode' like fire crackers.
...

http://www.amazon.com/ ... /customer-gallery/A393DG8WYDSH18

http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/customer-gallery/A393DG8WYDSH18

Fail-safes are also subject to failures, which makes unqualified statements as to their effect inadvisable and, in this case, demonstrably wrong.

 

[Conan]

Bones, I made a reply to NLee, showing him the picture and using your words to finish my message.

http://www.amazon.com/safe-BC9009-m...t&newContentID=MxSAWPJ21ARXNI#Mx2WB7QV2Z0AMZW

 

[TakeTheActive]

Absolutely disgraceful...

...I agree - please add helpful posts on Amazon, vote-up the meltdown ones and down the bogus ones.

For as far back as I can remember, "NLee the Engineer" held the #1 position for the "Most Helpful" review of the La Crosse BC-900. (It's a darn shame that Amazon didn't create a NEW entry for the BC-9009 but instead merged all of the data from the "less meltdown-prone" BC-900 into one lump). :thumbsdow

Recently, he updated his review:

[IMPORTANT NOTICE on Jan 5, 2010]
My old BC-900 has served me well for the past 4 years. But recenetly there is an inrush of reports on 'meltdown' of the new BC-9009. I can only assume that La Crosse is having very poor quality control with the new model. My advice is to stay away from BC-9009 for now, until the situation has been rectified...

SUDDENLY, he has dropped to the #2 position:

1. 98.6599% - 589 of 597 people found the following review helpful:
   By esanta "esanta"
   .
2. 98.2973% - 866 of 881 people found the following review helpful:
   By NLee the Engineer

Timing? :thinking:

For those not familiar with the Amazon site, when you CLICK on the LINKs "nnn customer reviews" or "see all nnn customer reviews...", on the top of the resulting new page, Amazon displays:

• The most helpful favorable review (Left side)
• The most helpful critical review (Right side)

followed by the rest, sorted by either:

• Most Helpful First or
• Newest First

...which currently defaults, for me, to "Most Helpful First". I wonder...

...On a more general note, who are the people who write a review for something they've only just bought, which they know little about and haven't really worked out how to use, giving it 5 stars. Why would they think anyone else could find their review remotely helpful?

I find it odd that folks are voting "Not Helpful" on 'Meltdown' Reviews. :shrug:

Interesting to watch...

NOTE: The last posted La Crosse BC-700/BC-900/BC-9009 Charger 'Meltdown' Report was 12/28/2009 - maybe that thread needs a 'plug' :

La Crosse BC-700/BC-900/BC-9009 Charger 'Meltdown' Reports​

 

[KiwiMark]

Recently, he updated his review:SUDDENLY, he has dropped to the #2 position:

1. 98.6599% - 589 of 597 people found the following review helpful:
   By esanta "esanta"
   .
2. 98.2973% - 866 of 881 people found the following review helpful:
   By NLee the Engineer

Timing? :thinking:

I took a look and read through his (NLee) review and found it helpful, so I clicked on the 'yes' at the end. Maybe more of us that think his review is helpful need to put our vote in?

 

[TakeTheActive]

Back "Under Review".

...Price: $64.99 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping. Details
You Save: $4.96 (7%)

In Stock.
Sold by cindystenger and Fulfilled by Amazon.
Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) is a service we offer sellers that lets them store their products in Amazon's own warehouses, and we directly pack, ship, and provide customer service for these items...

Only 1 left in stock--order soon.

ShawnLam,

Any count as to how many times this status has toggled back-and-forth? :shakehead

 

[TakeTheActive]

I took a look and read through his (NLee) review and found it helpful, so I clicked on the 'yes' at the end. Maybe more of us that think his review is helpful need to put our vote in?

Many of us don't deal with mathematics on a daily basis anymore, so, without actually looking into something, our initial perception of it may be incorrect.

Wondering approximately how many votes it would take to restore 'NLee the Engineer' to #1, I created the following 2 equations:

(866+x) / (881+x) = .99

(589) / (597+y) = .98

To get 'NLee the Engineer' UP to 99% would require 619 Helpful Votes.

To get 'esanta' DOWN to 98% would require 4 Not Helpful Votes. :thinking:

Makes it more clear to me NOW how easily 'NLee the Engineer' was 'de-throned'...

Reminds me old that old saying: "1 'Aw $hit' Wipes Out 1000 'Attaboys'..."​

 

[LeifUK]

It is interesting to analyse the reviews:

• Jan 9: 1 review => 1 star.
• Jan 8: 1 review => 1 star.
• Jan 7: 13 reviews => analysis below.
• Jan 6: 1 review => 4 star.
• Jan 5: 2 reviews => both 1 star.
• Jan 3: 1 review => 1 star.
• Jan 2: 2 reviews => 1 star and 5 star.
• Dec 30: 2 reviews => 2 star and 5 star.
• Dec 29: 1 review => 1 star.
• Dec 28: 1 review => 1 star.
• Dec 27: 1 review => 4 star.
• Dec 26: 3 review => 1 star, 4 star, 5 star.
• Dec 24: 1 review => 1 star.
• Dec 25: 1 review => 1 star.

I got bored and stopped there but I think there might be a trend. :huh: If we ignore the Jan 7 spurt, the reviews are absolutely appalling. And the Jan 07 spurt is completely and totally out of trend i.e. an unusually large number of reviews on one day, and the average rating for that day (52/13 = 4 star) is totally out of whack with the average for the other days (40/18 = 2.2 stars). In other words, my simple statistics suggests that the Jan 07 results are very suspicious. (I am sure someone with a better understanding of statistics could work out the probability of the Jan 07 spike.)

So let's look at the Jan 7 reviewers. I list the rating, the user name, and the total number of reviews written:

• 1 star: BillJ, loads of previous reviews.
• 4 star: L. Rodriquez Martinez, 1 review.
• 2 star: Kurt, 1 review.
• 4 star: A. Billings, 2 reviews both on 7 Jan 1200.
• 4 star: K. Young, 4 reviews, including one in 2006.
• 5 star: Dwight Barnes, 2 reviews including one ~ 1 year ago.
• 5 star: R. Barcellos, 1 review.
• 4 star: A Michael Piper, 3 reviews, all on 7 Jan 2010.
• 5 star: Kenneth V. Daley, 1 review.
• 5 star: PCSOF8, 1 review.
• 5 star: Marques de Santilana, 1 review.
• 5 star: Rajesh Geevarghese, 1 review.
• 3 star: Dean A. Bower, 1 review, criticises the shipping time only.

There are 13 reviews and 10 people give 4 or more stars. Of these 10 people, 6 have only done 1 review, 1 has done 2 reviews on the same day, and one has done 3 reviews, all on the same day. My quick random check of ~7 reviewers from 2009 found that most had many reviews to their name, i.e. it is unusual to do just 1. These 8 reviewers could all be fake as they could have been created recently due to no previous history. The 3 star reviewer has only 1 review, and criticises the shipping time. So he could also be a recent fake. That means that 9 people are possible fakes. Among the other good reviews, 2 are from established users, and 2 good reviews is not unexpected along with some bad ones. Of course one or both could be from LaCrosse employees/friends. We have no way to know.

In my opinion someone, maybe employed by LaCrosse, or a Lacrosse seller, has posted a large number of fake reviews. Not all the 13 are fake, but in my opinion most are. Unless anyone can explain how so many reviews from people with no previous history could have appeared in one day, and why the average rating on this day is so totally out of kilter with the average over other 13 days going back to Dec 25 2009. (I could have gone back further but boredom struck.)

Actually one explanation has occurred to me. It could be that some people read this thread, and decided to post their good experiences. So, if you are one of the people who gave a good amazon review on Jan 07 2010, please let me know via this thread so that we can tick you off as a real person, rather than a fake. Still, even if that is true, why do we not see a lot of reviews on other dates around Jan 07? This explanation does not ring true to me.

 

[LeifUK]

Further to the above, I checked Amazon reviews back to June 2009 and most reviews are 4 or 5 stars, so this fire hazard issue is recent, or it has recently got worse.

 

[uk_caver]

Deleted

 

[ShawnLam]

Back "Under Review".



ShawnLam,

Any count as to how many times this status has toggled back-and-forth? :shakehead

This marks the third time.

The funny thing is that I want to buy an Amazon Kindle and add some items to my Amazon sellers account on my blog but have been waiting for a permanent decision from Amazon before I decide if I will continue to buy and refer to Amazon, in the mean time I've been buying from other retailers, even if there is small price premium.

 

[eyrich74]

Everyone is focusing on Amazon selling these. An online seller that is frequently suggested on these forums is also still selling the BC-9009 and 900.

www.thomasdistributing.com

Has anyone contacted them?

 

[uk_caver]

They don't seem to have any reviews for the 9009.

If someone is selling something in good faith, unless there's a manufacturer recall, or people who have bought it from them complain to them about it, it's a fairly hard decision to stop/suspend selling something.

Though I'm not at all suggesting that any of the things below have happened in this case, from reports elsewhere, how can a dealer know what the actual failure rate is, whether anyone might have been misusing a charger and blaming the device, or even whether one or more people are pursuing a personal agenda?

Contacting a company is probably best done by customers, rather than third parties.

 

[Turbo DV8]

The funny thing is that I want to buy an Amazon Kindle...

Good idea. Buy some "Kindle-ing" to go with that LaCrosse!

 

[Apollo Cree]

Further to the above, I checked Amazon reviews back to June 2009 and most reviews are 4 or 5 stars, so this fire hazard issue is recent, or it has recently got worse.

It seems that most people really like it except for those who say they've had one melt down.

 

[vali]

• 
  [...]
• 4 star: L. Rodriquez Martinez, 1 review.
  [...]
• 5 star: Marques de Santilana, 1 review.
  [...]
  

I think those two are fake ones at least.

Why? The correct spanish surname is Rodriguez, not Rodriquez, and you can check "Marques de Santillana" in Google.

Of course I can be wrong too...

 

[r1gm1n]

In my opinion someone, maybe employed by LaCrosse, or a Lacrosse seller, has posted a large number of fake reviews. Not all the 13 are fake, but in my opinion most are. Unless anyone can explain how so many reviews from people with no previous history could have appeared in one day, and why the average rating on this day is so totally out of kilter with the average over other 13 days going back to Dec 25 2009. (I could have gone back further but boredom struck.)

I did not realize that Jesse Ventura's new show was being seen across the pond. But conspiracy theory is best discussed in "The Cafe".

It is pretty clear that you did not shop with Amazon this past holiday season. E-mail invitations have been sent to many of their customers to review one of their purchases. Mine was for freeze-dried Beef Stroganoff.

Most people do not write a review. So they replied when prompted.

I know you want to believe, but sorry.

 

[r1gm1n]

I think those two are fake ones at least.

Why? The correct spanish surname is Rodriguez, not Rodriquez, and you can check "Marques de Santillana" in Google.

Of course I can be wrong too...

A quick check would have shown you that the reviewer did spell his name right and a little typo was made by the poster.

And the use of screen names needs no explanation, even you use a screen name.