Lance Armstrong done______

kaichu dento

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Not entirely sure what you mean? As a former competitive road cyclist who does not live with his head in the sand I have known what Armstrong has got up to and who he has associated with for over 10 years, the evidence is clearly there and is as close to undeniable as you are going to get. It is interesting to hear lately from the horses mouths the wipers now coming out that have been going around in the cycling would for many years.
Maybe you're in possession of knowledge the rest of the world isn't, but I've seen nothing yet that says he's inarguably guilty.
His Life was biking. When you're a professional athlete to the extent that he was, his life consisted of biking in competitions or training to bike in competitions. That training eats up so much time, there's barely room for socializing. You're right about Armstrong having a life. It was one filled with training and competiting. And he just threw all that away. Will be interesting to see what he does next.
Exactly - his life was biking, not arguing with lawyers and board panels who are never going to give up.

The self-induced poisoning of Socrates was not done because he felt he was wrong and there is nothing new in someone deciding to give up in the face of insurmountable opposition.
one thing for sure; he won with testicular, lung, and brain cancer, and a brain operation for necrotic tumors. there should be EXTRA medals for that.
+ 1
 

TONY M

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Maybe you're in possession of knowledge the rest of the world isn't, but I've seen nothing yet that says he's inarguably guilty.
Mainly these things have been VERY well known and discussed in the cycling world for many years and there is not much new other than hearing the majority of his teammates now spilling the beans on the TV.

I do not know much that the rest of the world could not easily find out, the only thing I did come to know by complete chance was when somebody I know well informed me that he had spotted Armstrong and Michele Ferrari "working together" around Easter time 2008 (by memory in Tenerife). That was obviously highly suspicious and interesting to us, he being no fool knew guessed correctly exactly what was going on and it came as no surprise when Armstrong announced his comeback plans later that summer.
 

Monocrom

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Exactly - his life was biking, not arguing with lawyers and board panels who are never going to give up.

The self-induced poisoning of Socrates was not done because he felt he was wrong . . .

Yeah . . . Not even remotely on the same level or for the same reason. Socrates sacrificed himself not because he threw in the towel in a gesture of "I'm too tired to fight." He did it as the ultimate protest. He knew he was right. His followers knew it too. By sacrificing himself, he ensured that others would follow in his footsteps and that he would, in death, achieve immortality. More importantly, so would his teachings.

Armstrong is worth millions. You take a percentage of that, you pay the best lawyers you can find . . . And then you keep on training to win races while those lawyers fight for you. That's how it works. But Armstrong decided not to do that. He decided to quit. His decision. Not even remotely the same as what Socrates did.
 

rufus001

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Drugged to the eyeballs. Bullied other people in to taking drugs to help him win. People still defend him. WOW!!!!
 

TedTheLed

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Socrates was sentenced to death by popular vote, twice.
 

ElectronGuru

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Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Those who voted against Socrates thought he was a thorn in their sides (he was). They expected him to do what everyone else so sentenced did in similar circumstances - flee (into self exile). But to do so would have meant throwing out everything he spent his life teaching. He chose death over inconsistency.
 

kaichu dento

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Don't read too much into the Socrates analogy other than as it was meant - sometimes people do things that others wouldn't do, or more to the point here, in ways that armchair quarterbacks feel they should or shouldn't have done.

If I was Lance this, if I was Lance that... ad infinitum. None of you are Lance and hence, cannot speak to what his actions mean, but I doubt that any of you could have considered going for the goal he did after his fight with cancer being what it was.

Best not to throw ones opinion too strongly in one direction for the other, but some of you have a bone to pick and it's not pretty. I know not his guilt or innocence, but neither do you. Speculate, but refrain from condemnation.
 

Monocrom

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

It's clear you're one of the few supporters he has left. One thing that we do know regarding his actions is that he threw in the towel. That is certainly not in dispute. As for how one of us would handle life if we had to fight for it against cancer . . . You're right. Certain things we should not speculate about. Especially with regards to the fortitude of fellow members.

With regards to Mr. Armstrong, there's plenty of speculation along with plenty of facts as well.
 

rufus001

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Best not to throw ones opinion too strongly in one direction for the other, but some of you have a bone to pick and it's not pretty. I know not his guilt or innocence, but neither do you. Speculate, but refrain from condemnation.

You do actually realise that he has been found guilty don't you? That he isn't challenging it is irrelevant. Maybe you should update yourself on the facts.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf
 

kaichu dento

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

It's clear you're one of the few supporters he has left.
I've never been so much one of his supporters or fans, but simply have a natural aversion to trial by public consensus, which at last reading (months ago) it still appeared to be.
You do actually realise that he has been found guilty don't you? That he isn't challenging it is irrelevant. Maybe you should update yourself on the facts.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf
Having just finished reading a bit more on both the document presented and what others have weighed in with it does appear that you were right, and I hope that they will go after all the other riders with as much energy as they have this one. Next they'll also need to run computer simulations showing what his, and everyone elses corrected times should have been.
 

Monocrom

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

I've never been so much one of his supporters or fans, but simply have a natural aversion to trial by public consensus, which at last reading (months ago) it still appeared to be.

Appearances can be deceiving. Still, when a man has both the money and resources to fight slanderous and libelous allegations that threaten not just his very livelihood but his personal life-long dedication, but he just quits instead? That is indeed very telling. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quakes like a duck, chances are . . . it's not a cat in a Halloween costume.
 

kaichu dento

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Appearances can be deceiving. Still, when a man has both the money and resources to fight slanderous and libelous allegations that threaten not just his very livelihood but his personal life-long dedication, but he just quits instead? That is indeed very telling. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quakes like a duck, chances are . . . it's not a cat in a Halloween costume.
As noted in the rest of my previous post, I now believe he's not only giving up the fight, but is actually guilty of that with which he's charged.
Now that they've succeeded in demoting and banning him, I wonder why they're letting others still race with the same 'crimes' on their respective consciences?
 

Monocrom

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

As noted in the rest of my previous post, I now believe he's not only giving up the fight, but is actually guilty of that with which he's charged.
Now that they've succeeded in demoting and banning him, I wonder why they're letting others still race with the same 'crimes' on their respective consciences?

You're 100% right.

They shouldn't do that. It's ridiculous to make an example of Armstrong, but everyone else guilty of doing the same gets a free pass. Why? Because they didn't win races as often as he did?? The act of cheating, regardless of winning, is what counts. Those other pro bicyclists should face consequences for doing the very same thing.
 

rufus001

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

As noted in the rest of my previous post, I now believe he's not only giving up the fight, but is actually guilty of that with which he's charged.
Now that they've succeeded in demoting and banning him, I wonder why they're letting others still race with the same 'crimes' on their respective consciences?
I couldn't agree more. I feel sorry for the guys who actually refused to allow themselves to be corrupted. They took a BIG financial hit. Apart from any deals that may be done to extract information their shouldn't be any sort of amnesty.
 

TedTheLed

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Those who voted against Socrates thought he was a thorn in their sides (he was). They expected him to do what everyone else so sentenced did in similar circumstances - flee (into self exile). But to do so would have meant throwing out everything he spent his life teaching. He chose death over inconsistency.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/socrates.htm

Socrates
*
Socrates was 70 years old and familiar to most Athenians. His anti-democratic views had turned many in the city against him. Two of his students, Alcibiades and Critias, had twice briefly overthrown the democratic government of the city, instituting a reign of terror in which thousands of citizens were deprived of their property and either banished from the city or executed.
After hearing the arguments of both Socrates and his accusers, the jury was asked to vote on his guilt. Under Athenian law the jurors did not deliberate the point. Instead, each juror registered his judgment by placing a small disk into an urn marked either "guilty" or "not guilty." Socrates was found guilty by a vote of 280 to 220.

The jurors were next asked to determine Socrates' penalty. His accusers argued for the death penalty. Socrates was given the opportunity to suggest his own punishment and could probably have avoided death by recommending exile. Instead, the philosopher initially offered the sarcastic recommendation that he be rewarded for his actions. When pressed for a realistic punishment, he proposed that he be fined a modest sum of money. Faced with the two choices, the jury selected death for Socrates.

The philosopher was taken to the near-by jail where his sentence would be carried out. Athenian law prescribed death by drinking a cup of poison hemlock. Socrates would be his own executioner...."
 

orbital

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

+

Hopefully the sport of cycling can rebound in the most positive way.

..personally, I'd like to see cross country mountain bike racing back to where it was in the '90s

:D..:D


ride~on!!
 

will

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

A little side note to all this. Way back when, Greg LeMond was the the winner of a few Tours, Lance was just coming up in the cycling world. LeMond had stated,very publicly, there was something about Lance he did not care for. The two of them remained at odds over the years.

LeMond's career was cut short after a hunting accident left a few shotgun pellets in his back. The pellets eventually became toxic to his system and he could no longer compete.
 

Monocrom

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Re: Lance Armstrong done contesting drug allegations

Just heard on the news that it's now official, with regards to the outcome of those 7 victories for Armstrong (1999 - 2005).

The record books will from now on show that there was no winner of the Tour de France for those years. Yup, no official winner.
 
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