LATHE SWAP: Jet 13x40 for my hf 8x12 vfd

[gt40]

The shop that does all my race car work came into a jet lathe that is taking up shop space. They farm out all their machine shop work for the past 5 years and don't really use a lathe anymore. The owner is willing to swap it for my hf 8x12 following my vfd conversion. I am not familar with the Jet. It is model #GHB-1340A. I found new ones for sale for 5k range. It is in serious need of cleanup etc. but the owner says it works and he doesn't have the space or time to deal with it. This is for my garage and flashlights so it is definitely overkill but i have the room. He is a friend so no worries if it has issues and I want the hf 8x12 back.

It is 13x40 size!

Here are some pics:

I have no idea what the 2nd pic is about:

Assuming it works fine, anyone have any experience with this thing? He said it is an "engine" lathe. Not sure what that means.

It is 220 volt 2 hp with a gear box 8 speeds and power feed/cross feed. I got to pay for local pickup. I am wondering if I am biting off more than I can chew.

 

[gadget_lover]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

The second picture is the head of a mill or (more likely) a high end drill press. It may be an attachment to work with the lathe, or it may be seperate equipment. If it's offered as part of the deal just smile and say yes.

Of course, you know you will want to VFD this sucker, right?

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/1340_geared_head_lathe.html

Daniel

 

[csa]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

Sounds like a nice thing to me... A big lathe will let you do so many things a smaller one can't.

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

Run it in through all the speeds, all the feeds, and through all threading combination's.

The gearbox that turns both the lead screw for threading & the shaft for carriage advance is one known weak point on all the Jet models, whether belt drive or gear head. IF you have to replace all the gears in that box, the cost is just under a grand - if not, the cost is zero

The tail stock locking system is the other often seen problem. You can redesign & improve it if it gives problems.

They aren't a bad machine, especially if they've seen light use. Write down both the serial number & the model number from the nameplate & telephone Mary McWilliams, Tech Service, Walter Meier Manufacturing (who is now the supplier of all Jet replacement parts). She can then email a parts breakdown, and tell you when that machine was built.

ph (615) 793-1332 fax(615) 287-1532

Bearings in the headstock are tapered rollers of the Timken style. Preload is adjustable from the rear of the spindle using a pair of Armstrong type hook spanner wrenches.

If all the speeds sound good, all the feeds work, and all the threading combination's are OK, it may be a sweet deal

 

[gt40]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

Precisionworks- Thank you so much for the referral. I will follow up tomorrow.

The owner is really cleaning house and said I can have an old bridgeport mill too if I will haul it off. I have spent a lot of money over the years with the shop on the race car so he is "donating them" to me if I want them to clear shop space. I know nothing of the mill but I have seen them use it a couple of times and it seems to work:

Forgive the quality of the pics he just had someone in the shop snap some and e-mailed them to me. I no nothing of these mills and both the lathe and mill have seen better days but the price is right

I will go down tomorrow and inspect both properly before I hire a mover.

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

For sure grab the Bpt ... it's a Series one, step pulley, with a newer (2000 or so) Sargon DRO. A company in California can repair the DRO if needed for about $150, as long as the scales and reader heads are OK. $250-$300 for a VFD & the mill will spin

J&L Scraping Service will make the Bpt look & run like new for about the cost of an Enco mill-drill: http://www.evanlcox.com/sites/jandlscraping/

FWIW, the old style "round ram" Bpts will bring $1000 at most any auction. The Series 1 will usually sell for $1500 in about the condition you show.

 

[Davo J]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

I would do the swap, and grab that Bridgeport as well.
The lathe might be like this one below and have a mill head on it as well.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-36-Metal-Lathe-w-Milling-Head/G0492

Most parts are interchangable between Chinese brands, so you should be right for spares in the future.

It would be every home shop guys dream, for a deal like this to come along.
Dave

 

[darkzero]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

I would do the swap, and grab that Bridgeport as well.

It would be every home shop guys dream, for a deal like this to come along.
Dave

+1

That BP should be number one on the list.

If you got the room you have to be insane to pass up on this offer! If you don't have the room, make room! :twothumbs

 

[StrikerDown]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

If you don't have room call me!

Grab it and run like hell!!!

 

[gt40]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

I went down to the shop and inspected the lathe and the mill. The lathe was completely covered with grime but I put some penetrating oil on it and it everything looks good. the cross slide, gears, everything moves smoothly. I tried to wire it up but had some trouble. Anyone have any experience wiring this thing up? I found the parts manual but the wiring on pg46-47 is cryptic for me. Here is a link to the manual if anyone is up for helping. http://content.wmhtoolgroup.com/manuals/M-321357A.pdf

I found a post on the internet that says:

"Look at pages 46/47. The second conduit from the left in both pictures shows three large wires coming into the panel. These should be the supply lines. If you look at the wiring diagram they should be numbered. Looks like green(earth ground) into the 3rd terminal from the left. white (neutral) into the 4th terminal, and black (line) into the 5th terminal. Now fire that thing up, I need some parts"

Hopefully this is all there is. I already installed a breaker box with 3 230v circuits in the garage but it was years ago I just need to understand what wires go from the power cord to the box and whether I need to install a wall switch for power in line with it. I scored a heavy 6 leg metal table that will fit the lathe also but I got to cut the legs down about 4 " and weld on some leveling bases for them first.

On to the mill. The Bridgeport turns on, the table moves and the DRO works! It is rusty and need of major cleaning but the ways seem okay and the shop made stuff with it a couple of months ago so nothing is broken at least. This will be a major project to restore it properly but I am in awe of how massive this thing is. It is 3 phase so I guess I need an converter box or something to go from 240v 1 phase which I have to 3 phase. I was able to talk to the son of the original owner. It has been in his family for decades and seen very little use and probably neglect for most of its life. It was in a race shop for 20 years before going to 2 other similar businesses over 2 generations. It doesn't seem to have been used so much as neglected.

 

[gadget_lover]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

Sounds like the find of the decade for a racer like yourself. Way to GO!

Daniel

 

[StrikerDown]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

The 2 legs of the 220v circuit go to L & N, PE= earth GROUND-the green wire, also it is probably the copper ground bar in the panel.

L & N on the diagram are the 220V line in, I can't read the terminals in the photo, can you find terminals marked L & N?
You should not have a neutral rather it runs on the 2 hot leads (220V, 2 colored wires like red/black or Blk/Blk or red/red just not white and a color) coming from the power box. If the power cord it was attached with has a white wire in it it probably is being used as one of the hot leads not as a neutral, like Will Quiles 12x36 was hooked up. For the 110v accessories it make it's own with the transformer.

Reading your description above it looks like you are trying to wire it like it were a 110V machine, that would be a neutral (white) and a colored wire other than green, and a green(Ground). It looks like it is a 220V machine according to the schematic. I have never seen a 13X40 lathe that is not at least run on 220v or 208V (3 phase).

You will need a Phase converter of some type for the mill. You can buy them already built, or you can make one using a Three phase motor and another motor to wind it up to speed(pony). See Barry's thread on his new lathe. Starting around post #44: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=264523&page=2

Or you might be able to wire it up with a VFD and have variable speed, This would be the best way if it only has the motor being powered by the 220V and the DRO can be powered off another 110v line.

Some people put a disconnect on the wall if it is hard wired in or if you use a plug and receptacle that serves as a disconnect, just unplug!

Hope this helps, If you would like me to wire it up for you I might take the mill in trade!

 

[wquiles]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

Sounds like the find of the decade for a racer like yourself. Way to GO!

Daniel

+1

Absolutely a fantastic find/deal, even it it needs some tender caring love to bring back to working condition :thumbsup:

 

[gt40]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

I took a pic with my phone of the wiring box. Crap, it is different than the manual pics. I just need to know where to hook up the 230 volt wires:

 

[StrikerDown]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

I can't see the markings well but the first two terminals on the bottom left, next to the copper ground bar, is where I would look. They are both empty and the wire tape above the 1st one has an L on it and the one to the right of it might be the N. Can you see the wire tape above the 2nd terminal?

The terminals on the bottom should be internally jumpered to the ones directly above that have the wire on them. Those are the wires to look at for the L & N

It's too bad the Chinese don't mark the jumper strip (block) where to hook up the wires and the voltage to hook up to them, it would make it a lot easier to find. But then sometimes they use power cable with the white wire hooked up to a 220V tap! Go figure!

 

[gt40]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

Thank you very much! It is an l and and n on those terminals. Does it matter which of the the 2 wires I put in either? If I understand you, I will get a cable and the 2 pos go to the L and N terminals and the ground goes to the copper grounding terminal.

 

[precisionworks]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

You'll need 15 amp double pole breaker for your load center, plus enough #12 3 conductor with ground to go from the load center to the lathe. Romex is OK, as is a rubber covered cable like SOOW.

The 12/3 will have 3 conductors (2 black, 1 white, plus a bare copper ground). The 2 blacks go to the two terminals on the lathe labeled L1 and L2, white goes to N (neutral) and bare copper goes to ground.

 

[StrikerDown]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

Edit: Barry beat me with his post. Barry look again at the wiring schematic for his lathe. It does not use a neutral, just the 220V legs plus ground. Terminals L & N are just tap numbers. (see page 45) End edit.

It does not matter on single phase.

At your building electric panel you will need a double pole circuit breaker to hook into. panels are set up to give you 220V between the adjacent breaker spaces so a double pole breaker uses 2 "out of phase" circuits in the panel giving 220V between the 2 terminals on the breaker.

If you can find a three conductor 14 gauge cable (assuming 2 HP motor, 220V, 15 Amp breaker) that has two colors and green (or 12 Gauge will work also) you should be good to go. Try to find cable with 2 colors like blk and red rather than black and white. You probably won't find wiring with 2 colors and green it will probably be white black and green you can get by with this but you should tape up the white wire with black or red electrical tape to eliminate future confusion that it might be a neutral wire, it's best to avoid using this configuration with the white wire if possible.

 

[65535]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

I can wouldn't recommend 14 gauge for any run of 15A over 15 feet. Definitely not an in wall application. Run some good 12/3 wire to a 220/120V outlet which will allow you to have other things hooked up if you ever need a little extra juice.

 

[StrikerDown]

Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd

I can wouldn't recommend 14 gauge for any run of 15A over 15 feet. Definitely not an in wall application. Run some good 12/3 wire to a 220/120V outlet which will allow you to have other things hooked up if you ever need a little extra juice.

I wouldn't either, but his lathe is in the 7-9 amp range under nominal load. It definitely won't hurt a thing to use 12/3 and provides an extra safety margin (less v drop) on longer runs.
The 15 amp Circuit breaker is there to protect the facility wiring and has nothing to do with protection outside of the wall outlet.