Leaking SureFire M2

[nihraguk]

after a lot of encouragement from various CPF and SIDB members, i finally got an M2, and the first thing i did was submerge it in a basin with water about 20cm deep, and within 15 minutes water had leaked past the lens and inside the bezel

i'll probably email surefire cs about it and they'll probably send me a replacement bezel but i am rather dissappointed. the fine workmanship of the light and the P61 lamp was very impressive, and i found the combat grip and clip very useful, but to have it leak on me was really a wet blanket.

has anyone ever dissassembled an M2 bezel? what do they use as a water seal? as far as i can tell, i don't see any o-rings. is there anyway i can fix it without tossing it out? it seems rather wasteful that a good bezel that otherwise works fine cannot be used just because of a lousy water seal.

 

[Nerd]

Epoxy it yourself? just get some devcon 2 ton expoy @ $4.50 SGD at your nearest hard ware shop. Don't use the hardener because it makes the epoxy yellow. Just apply a super thin layer, wait for it to harden (very very slow) apply another layer and so on.

 

[Bushman]

were the orings lubed good? sometimes they come dry from the factory

 

[SUREFARC]

nihraguk ,are you sure it leaks from the lens?
I guess the o-rings are not well lubed.

 

[nihraguk]

nerd:
i guess i could do that.....i'll see what surefire customer service has to say first though. i emailed them about it already.

bushman & littleninjai:
actually the o-rings were overlubed; so much so that some water leaked in through the two o-rings on the tail-cap end of the light. i cleaned off some of the grease there and now it doesn't leak.

as for the bezel, water does not leak in through the O-ring on the flashlight's barrel. the water leaks in through the lens seal, and i don't know how to dissassemble the bezel to get at the lens o-ring or whatever it is they use to seal it.

just curious, but how many of those of you who have M2s have had it leak through the lens seal before? seems like water-resistance for surefires is more like the exception rather than the rule.

 

[ygbsm]

After seeing this on the 186 forum http://186thousand.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=001832 and http://186thousand.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=001871. There, leakage within 5min is reported on a G2Z and M6, both from the ring holding the pyrex lens to the bezel. After reading this and stories about e2s leaking in the rain, I'm pretty leery about putting my SFs to the sink test.

 

[JackBlades]

The bugaboo may be that ring holding the window in - it appears to be plastic. I saw a similar SF bezel that a member had disassembled to do a mod and the ring got pretty trashed. It could be that it just won't take the torque needed to get the glass to seat firmly on an O-ring, assuming there is in fact an O-ring under it.
It would seem to me (don't laugh at this) that you could get some idea of the seal by removing the bezel and blowing or sucking on it from the threaded end while listening for air leaks. Maybe even submerge it in a bowl of water while doing so.
This would certainly apply more atmospheric pressure than submerging it in an 8" deep sink basin.
I want to know the answer as well, as after taking my ARC LE into the jacuzzi, I want to try my M3 too!
Is a KL2 supposed to be watertight??

 

[nihraguk]

ygbsm:
the E2e that you read about leaking in the rain is mine

chamenos and nihuraguk are one and the same person: me

anyway surefire sent me a replacement bezel for the E2e but by that time i decided i wanted to go with an M2 instead so i sold it though it was still in mint condition. at that time the M2 was advertised on surefire's website as "waterproof", and that was one of the main reasons why i decided to upgrade.

anyway, if you want some peace of mind regarding your surefires, you can remove the batteries and lamp assemblies and submerge it. that way if it leaks, no big deal; you can just clean it out.

jackblades:
speaking of that nylon ring, i noticed the one on my M2 has a gouge in one area, and it doesn't seem to sit in the middle of the bezel. the gap between the ring and the bezel seems to bigger on one side. what appears to be an o-ring under the glass, also doesn't sit directly in the center.

when i sumberged it, i noticed that the water seems to leak in around the entire perimeter of the lens. when i turn the light, i can see the water and air bubble around the lens moving. after leaving it that way for a while, a water droplet begun appearing on the inside of the lens and that's when i decided to take it out of the sink.

its really a pity that surefire doesn't find a more surefire way to seal their bezels. the only surefire i've had so far that was truly waterproof is the 6P original (new-style). the record time i've left it submerged without leaking is 3 hours. seems their old snap-fit bezels which used lexan lens work better than the methods they use to seal their pyrex lenses. i suggest you remove the innards of your M3 before submerging it, and check to see if water leaks in....as soon as it does remove the light from the water.

as for the arc, mine seems as waterproof as my 6P

as for the KL led bezels, seeing how the lenses are sealed the same way as the E2e bezels, i would say there is a chance they will leak.

 

[B@rt]

JackBlades,
now why would you need a light in a jacuzzi...

 

[Size15's]

FYI, the KL1 is not sealed the same way as the M2 Bezel.

I know because I have a KL1 and an M2 Bezel both taken to bits right on my desk. Please note that I can not put them back together - one way trip to hell, but interesting all the same...

Respectfully,

Al

 

[nihraguk]

Al: thanks for the infomation

but do you know how the M2 lens is sealed? i'm just curious whether they used hot glue or an O-ring.

jackblade: if you're not sure about the M3, i would advise you to use the arc instead.

ygbsm: when you submerge the M3, make sure the water you're using is clean. if water leaks into the reflector area, just open it up and let it dry out. it might take a while, but just don't use dirty water or the reflector might get stained and it would be almost impossible to clean it.

red-t: did you have to send in your leaking bezels or did surefire just send you new ones anyway? i would like to do the test you described but i'm short on 123 batteries at the moment

 

[JackBlades]

Bart, you guys put me up to it!! It seems twice as bright in a dark hot-tub at night!
Besides, my GF seemed "intrigued" by the idea of a handheld light rather than the one mounted in the tub.

That's all I'm gonna say here.

The KL2 bezel I have for my M3 is sealed in EXACTLY the same way as the std bezel, so I should be able to assume it's at least as water resistant, but as the rear is sealed, I can't really pressure test it. (I can seal up the rear with a blue loctite-type sealer)
If any of you have a KL2 head you know what I mean. The rear inside is threaded in with a round piece requiring a spanner-wrench to disassemble.

 

[B@rt]

.......

 

[ygbsm]

Originally posted by nihraguk:
ygbsm:
the E2e that you read about leaking in the rain is mine

chamenos and nihuraguk are one and the same person: me

anyway surefire sent me a replacement bezel for the E2e but by that time i decided i wanted to go with an M2 instead so i sold it though it was still in mint condition. at that time the M2 was advertised on surefire's website as "waterproof", and that was one of the main reasons why i decided to upgrade.

anyway, if you want some peace of mind regarding your surefires, you can remove the batteries and lamp assemblies and submerge it. that way if it leaks, no big deal; you can just clean it out.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the info -- I'm just concerned about getting the water out of my M3 bezel -- how do you get the reflector out of the M3?

 

[JackBlades]

Shock-isolated reflectors only come out the front - after the window is removed........
*edit*
Just use a hair-dryer to dry it out and you're good to go!

 

[Red-T]

Hi!

I was the one who had the leaking M6 and G2Z. The M6 has been fixed by SureFire, the G2Z is another story but is in the process of being fixed (I get sent another bezel).

I think I have a tip for those who want to check water-resistance without getting water into the light itself (did a bit of fine-tuning after being annoyed with having to dry the lights for long times):

Fill warm water into a sink.

Put the lights someplace cold. I put them in front of an open window; in December, that is enough

Switch the light on, wait a few seconds, and submerse it. Because the bulb/batteries warm up the light, the air inside it expands and presses through any leaks. Since the water in the sink is already warm, it provides no cooling (had problems with that before because the water cooled the lights so much that I saw no bubbles).

As you create positive pressure inside the light, no water will enter. Additionally, you see any leaks very well because bubbles emerge.

HTH

 

[ygbsm]

Red-T -- That's incredibly clever! Now I may actually risk testing them. Thanks!

 

[Red-T]

SF had me send in both lights complete, then, as far as I can tell, only exchanged the bezels (took around 1 1/2 months).

As they put a G2 bezel on my G2Z and I melted the lens, they're now sending me a G2Z bezel.

 

[Rifter]

My M2 does not leak. I have not tried it after i added the KT2 and A19 but it will resist water as i have used it while it was raining really hard but have not yet submerged it.

 

[ygbsm]

I tried out my frankenstein e2 -- e2e bezel and e2 body and now I have a U-light! Totally submerged and no leaks.

JackBlades -- Thanks.