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A true search light has throw.
A big emitter in a smaller reflector will give you the flood you're looking for,
multi emitter lights are floddy also.
If you haven't already, start using rechargeable lithium batteries Tom.
LED Search Light
- Thread starter TD-Horne
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A true search light has throw.
A big emitter in a smaller reflector will give you the flood you're looking for,
multi emitter lights are floddy also.
If you haven't already, start using rechargeable lithium batteries Tom.
I remembered another way so that the children would not get lost - give them whistles and teach them Morse code, that is, assign a number to each child, and periodically call them by numbers. If a child hears his number in a whistle, he responds with his personal number in the same whistle. If he thinks he's lost, he might as well whistle SOS. But this is in theory, in practice they can eat their whistles or whistle non-stop. What age children are you working with?
But they can be taught to whistle in cases where they are able to realize that they are lost. Another question is whether they will be able to understand this and agree that they are lost and that a signal should be given? Some people don't want to show themselves helpless..
Thought of tracking everyone by GPS seems to be the most effective
But they can be taught to whistle in cases where they are able to realize that they are lost. Another question is whether they will be able to understand this and agree that they are lost and that a signal should be given? Some people don't want to show themselves helpless..
Thought of tracking everyone by GPS seems to be the most effective
Maybe it's just me, but I have trouble recommending lights that need lithium rechargeable batteries in a case like this. I'm pretty sure that Tom said he needs 24 lights with batteries. While Tom might be well studied in the use/care/charging/storage of lithium rechargeable batteries, that's a lot of lights and batteries that won't be in his direct control. I'd have to imagine, if I were in his shoes, I'd rather have a light that I could hand to anyone, and not have to worry about them torching a tent or cabin full of children. That's not to say you can't cause problems with a few alkalines, but you'd almost have to try.
I kind of think that if they have burned through the hopefully fresh batteries in the light plus a spare set, that police and/or search&rescue should already be on scene, not to mention resupply and reinforcements from back at the camp.
I kind of think that if they have burned through the hopefully fresh batteries in the light plus a spare set, that police and/or search&rescue should already be on scene, not to mention resupply and reinforcements from back at the camp.
Rayovac C cells are fairly inexpensive at Depot.
Tom can, or someone in his crew, take 10% off for Leo/mil veterans discount.
Just my two cents..
Tom can, or someone in his crew, take 10% off for Leo/mil veterans discount.
Just my two cents..
Post number 48.
You mean the same 9 year old that never seems to have more than about 15% of charge on their phone?
You mean the same 9 year old that never seems to have more than about 15% of charge on their phone?
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That 9 year old should be good after charging a light, as long as it doesn’t show Tik Tok videos.
My work lights start out with the longest running option rechargeable (depending on the light) with primarys in a rolled up ziplock bag as backup in case the rechargeable gets depleted or fails after a drop murdered the low voltage cut off thingy.
Sounds so 1990's but a fanny pack can carry a few spare batteries easily.
Sounds so 1990's but a fanny pack can carry a few spare batteries easily.
TD-Horne
Newly Enlightened
That is a good clear statement of what I'm looking for in the power category. What seems to be confusing some of the folks who are trying to help me is that I'm hoping to find a light that will run on lowest common denominator primary batteries. The kind that a counselor could buy at a mini-mart 2/10ths of a mile away were the trail crosses a road. That doesn't mean that is cut into stone. If it isn't possible such is life.
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Tom Horne
TD-Horne
Newly Enlightened
Please educate me on what a "Large Die LED" is.
One way to describe the kind of light pattern I'm hoping to have is ALL spill or perhaps a very wide hot spot.
It's clear that we are going to need a purpose built charging station for the rechargeable batteries in each camp. Shelves with a Legrand Plugmold Multi-outlet Section on the back part of the shelf. If I can get that in the 3 inch on center spacing of the single outlets we could fit a charger's wall wart or cord into each outlet so as to maximize the use of the space on the shelf.
Visitors are on their own. The are guests in the public lands just as we are. Our ULTIMATE concern is the safety of Campers, Counselors, and staff. We are looking for ponchos with reflective trim for use by campers. Between the whistles that another contributor suggested and issuing each camper a Lightstick that would be as far as the camping program committee would be willing to go in terms of requiring campers to ware specific items.
The trails that the campers hike vary a lot in terrain and level of improvement. The lowest common denominator would be US Forest Service wilderness area trails. Those aren't much better than an animal track. The only wheeled carrier that I have seen used on such trails are a Stokes basket litter with a single wheel center dolly.
Those take 4 adults in good physical condition to carry with the single wheel only lessening the fatigue on long evacuations.
Climbing training is not available to our campers until they are High School age. Although the trails they often use are unimproved they do not exceed Class 2 pitch. Roped climbing practices would not be warranted.
Tom Horne
TD-Horne
Newly Enlightened
Then I used the wrong name. Let's call it a flood light! If our counselors are doing a backtrack search they will not be able to see further than 50 feet maximum. For the entire trip they will cross over 1 or 2 high points were the sight distance might be far longer. But you don't conduct a search standing still on a knob. At least I never saw one done that way and I have seen a few.
Tom Horne
TD-Horne
Newly Enlightened
Yes I can take a disabled veteran discount which is sometimes even more. Thank you for the reminder.
Tom Horne
alpg88
Flashlight Enthusiast
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If you gonna switch to li ions in your camp, you will have to train your entire crew on how to use, charge and store the cells safely, and how not to make them go boom, cuz they can and do when mishandled". they cause fires, homes have burned down cuz of li ions cells, people have been injured. god forbid something like that happens, a kid gets injured, ( now it does not even have to be an injury, an emotional trauma is enough to set lawyers off), your camp wont see an end to lawsuits.
What would Woods Walker do? (RIP)
Tom, he was a moderator here at one point who had numerous you tube videos and threads galore about his adventures in the wilderness. Had he not passed suddenly I'm sure he'd offer some advice based off his extensive know how.
He did one video where he only had a 1x aaa flashlight to guide his way to and from an adventure. No head lamp, no other backup. Well he had them but made a video only using that one keychain sized light.
Tom, he was a moderator here at one point who had numerous you tube videos and threads galore about his adventures in the wilderness. Had he not passed suddenly I'm sure he'd offer some advice based off his extensive know how.
He did one video where he only had a 1x aaa flashlight to guide his way to and from an adventure. No head lamp, no other backup. Well he had them but made a video only using that one keychain sized light.
TD-Horne
Newly Enlightened
You must have misunderstood what I was saying about having battery charging stations at camp as having something to do with things that campers are going to use. The Campers are not allowed the use of any electronic device while in camp. Parents all receive an equipment list which specifically excludes rechargeable lights. If a camper were to show up with one anyway, which hasn't happened to date that I ever heard of, the camper would be provided with primary batteries or an alternative light.
Each camper puts their own kit away under the supervision of a counselor on their first day in camp. Electronic devices of any kind other than flashlights are not permitted in camp. If a camper gets one past their parents they won't get it past their counselors.
We are not unaware of the dangers of lithium batteries. When I raised that issue in the headlight question some time ago my concern was dismissed as unwarranted.
A number of people here have been critical of my preference for for primary batteries. Assuring the safe recharging of secondary batteries is part of the reason for my reluctance to depend on them for safety equipment. The only completely safe Lithium batteries I know of are Lithium Iron Phosphate. That particular chemistry is not yet being offered in a flashlight sized form.
The charging stations would only be for the growing number of rechargeable devices that might become part of the counselors equipment. That list includes cellular telephones, portable radios, electronic navigation, flood pattern lights for use during a search for a missing camper... So any of those that we actually end up using would need to be recharged. I was just saying that I could foresee a need for a separate place in each camp to do the recharging. There is no electrical power in the camper cabins. Camp staff wouldn't be enthusiastic to host it in their cabins. By setting up shelves with receptacles along their entire length we could make that whole job easier.
Tom Horne
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TD-Horne
Newly Enlightened
I just realized that when I asked that any money that anyone wanted to donate be sent to the Yearly Meeting office I should have asked that it be marked as a donation for camping program safety equipment. That way the camping program committee will actually get the use of the funds for equipment that improves staff, counselor, and camper safety. If the book keeper doesn't know that it was meant for a special purpose it would end up in the general fund.
Tom Horne
Tom Horne
Actually, they are. I use 16340 size LFP cells in place of CR123As in some of my flashlights (etc). Surefire (just for one example) sells them for use in their flashlights. I am NOT suggesting that you use them, only correcting the record. As you were...
TD-Horne
Newly Enlightened
I just stumbled across the Streamlight Knuckle Head flashlight. Its designed to run on primary AA batteries, can be purchased in a floodlight design, will runs on NiMH batteries if that is useful. I'm going to borrow or buy one for the rural nighttime test toward the end of April. It might not be enough given it's 200 lumen on high rating but it's the first light I've found that is meant to be a flood light. Looking at the way the reflector is shaped it may have the kind of horizontal light spread that is to be had out of some bicycle headlights. Probably not bright enough, going by what many of you have been saying, but it won't hurt to have a former counselor and camp staff person try it out. Part of my confusion comes from the feedback I got on having 200 lumen headlights for campers. Many contributors said that 200 lumens would be way too bright. When the program folks tried out the the lower levels that some of you recommended they found those contributors were right. So maybe 200 Lumens will be enough when coming out of a purpose designed flood reflector. We shall see!
Tom Horne
Tom Horne
If you get a light that runs on AA batteries, to get 500-800 lumens each of three AA bateries will have a 1-2 amp draw. So that will give you 25-65 minutes. Of course you can use 200 lumens, and get a longer run time. Hopefully the child will remain in the middle of the path, and not wander into the woods, chasing a rabbit, or dear. Or maybe try to take a shortcut.
That's definitely worth a look, TD. While you're browsing the SL catalog, also take a look at this. I'm not at all certain it would be ideal for you, but only that it too is perhaps worth at least a look. It uses 2 LEDs, one for flood, and one for spot, integrated into the same reflector assy (much like an SL headlight I have used at work in the past, which worked very well for me). They are controlled separately by dedicated switches on alternate sides of the body (but can be operated simultaneously / independently). The 'flood' section alone is 'only' 175 lumens, which might or might not be sufficient(?). Run time on 'Spot' is rated 8.5 hours, though keep in mind that FL1 rates that down to 10% of initial output, which is not likely a usable level for your application, so your actual use time would be less. Users would need to be prepared to swap cells as required. The 'beam distance' of the 'flood' section is listed at 39 meters, which, the way that's rated (down to .25 Lux) means the usable distance for such searching might be only 1/3 or half that (?) and might be insufficient. The 'flood' distribution pattern it has might provide the desired near-field coverage pattern though, without a lot of distracting / unnecessary extraneous illumination of surroundings, upper branches of vegetation, etc., and should be fairly evenly distributed over its coverage. It runs on 3xAA, is a fairly friendly form factor / weight, is fairly rugged (ANSI FL1 2-meter impact rating and reasonable ingress rating), hi-vis color, and would be easily operated by most adults. The 'spot' function could also be a useful thing to have on tap and easily available for use as needed, and for other purposes / situations.
One thing to consider, which I don't think has been mentioned, is color rendition for such searching in such conditions. (BTW, having lived in Owings Mills, Columbia, and Herndon, I'm somewhat familiar with the terrain / foliage you might be operating in.) I'm not going to get down into the esoteric weeds as some are wont to do around here with spectral analysis and endless theorizing, but will simply say that a light with a decent color rendering index rating (CRI) of 90+ would be substantially better for such searches than your average LED flashlight with something well below that. That is based on my personal experience and experimentation outdoors at night, not charts, graphs, and theorizing. Not only does it allow one to better resolve details / variations in coloration / shading of the natural terrain, but perhaps more importantly in your application, it would greatly enhance one's ability to detect and resolve un-natural things in the surroundings (such as the coloration of campers' clothing, etc. - assuming they aren't wearing camo); thus I think that is worthy of consideration as a criterion. The 'flood' section of this light is rated at 90 CRI, which is quite adequate.
This is not an outright, fully-considered recommendation (I don't have enough data to do that), but rather just something else I think is worthy of consideration in your product search. It could possibly be worth buying one to try, as they aren't terribly expensive. You might also consider giving SL a call to see if anyone has an opinion. Remember, this is SL, so they're in your time zone and speak English! As you likely already know, from this product page, open the 'Documentation +' menu for the Data Sheet, Fact Sheet, etc. for the full details.
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