Left Android; Joined IOS

[Chauncey Gardiner]

I don't know what the hell you guys are conversing about. I take a picture with my iPhone and it magically appears all my other Apple devices. I don't have to do anything.

 

[chillinn]

That's iCloud.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

That's iCloud.

It's wonderful!

 

[Olumin]

I always disable iCloud. I kinda find it sketchy, sharing your data like that, but I suppose apple gets my data one way or another. When you buy a modern phone you pretty much wave your right for privacy anyway. I cant be the only one that tapes over the front camera. I think modern phones pretty much record all the time using the microphone, communicating with other devices over ultrasound, share location data, give device & OS info to 3rd party apps... fact of life, permission or not. If I wanted privacy I would've just gotten a pager.

 

[chillinn]

Apple, like other storage services, has software that scans (I think hashes, actually, and compares the hashes to a list) and reports kiddie porn to FBI, but otherwise why would they waste their time spying on users through their photos? There is so much data. Billions of photos. There's analytics and telemetry, but it's mostly their malware protection. Apple doesn't serve ads, so what else would the data be used for if they did use it? There is a new lawsuit against Apple regarding privacy, but it will probably be dismissed, lacking merit. Apple is fighting for user privacy. It's fb and Google that get revenue from user data that Apple lets their users opt out of allowing them to collect it. Apple doesn't sell user data. Pretty much killed fb and Google's business model on Apple devices.

 

[Olumin]

I recommend this video regarding the topic. These kinds of data collection & sharing methods are common among all the big-tech giants. I dont really care myself & just live with it, but thats also partially because Im barely on my phone & dont keep much data on it. Apple prevented certain data from being collected by 3rd party companies like Google or Facebook because it gives them an advantage with their own data collection network, while at the same time being marketable to customers as a security feature. This gives them an economic edge over their main competitors & increases their market share. Its a business decision, none of these companies cares about our privacy.

 

[bykfixer]

I was watching a video about getting better battery life from your iPhone one day and some of the tips were shutting off stuff that in the cruxt of the matter were things that share your information. Apps and such. When I get a new phone I shut off Siri. Add a new app and turn off learn from Siri. I deleted Chrome from my iPhone too. I turn off maps until needed, any location services, or "share with the camera" settings.

Yeah some of your info gets shared, especially if you use a picture sharing site. Can't begin to tell you how many of my photos show up in Google searches and other search engines from the photobucket days. Once it's at those places Katy bar the door. Yet aside from wrapping your device in tinfoil some info is going to get out. Those 3rd party keyboards for example. And now Apple shares some stuff you agree to when you accept their services. They say they keep it in-house, but it's a mighty big house with lots of doors and windows. But Android and Microsoft are much more open about sharing.

So if you want better battery life turn off all of the sharing stuff you can.

 

[chillinn]

Apple prevented certain data from being collected by 3rd party companies like Google or Facebook because it gives them an advantage with their own data collection network, while at the same time being marketable to customers as a security feature.

This has been asserted, and it is the subject of the lawsuit I mentioned, but there is absolutely no indication of this, and the evidence was circumstantial to begin with, and later proved not to be personal data collection. It should have been suspected not to be initially, because the data is too small to be anything personal.

The evidence presented with outrage is the telemetry that sniffing network activity shows. But developers have determined the activity is coming from macOS OCSP Privacy function of the OS, and it can be disabled academically by black-holing the url (ocsp.apple.com) using DNS or even a hosts file. Alternatively, it can be defeated with an application firewall such as Little Snitch.

But doing so is not recommended because Apple's OCSP communications handle security certificate revocation and ensures malicious apps can be revoked. Disabling OCSP means malicious software would continue to run, and revoked security certificates would remain in place. IOW, it isn't what they thought it was when first discovered, it isn't personal data collection, it's part of Apple's security suite.

It would be incredibly hypocritical for Apple to block bad players like Google and FaceBook only to do the exact same thing while publicly championing privacy. Everyone wants to believe Apple can't be trusted, but there's simply no evidence of Apple collecting personal data. But if they were, and they're not targeting ads and monetizing the data, what could they possibly be using it for? Are they an arm of some illegal NSA data collection program? It just doesn't make sense.

Apple is pretty rational, so if they were dispicably collecting personal data and clicks, it would have to be for some purpose, but what that purpose could be is elusive. Without a purpose, there's no motive. They may have means and opportunity, granted, but without motive it's really hard to believe. If anyone can come up with what advantage it would give Apple's alleged data collection network, I'd really like to hear it, because I can't think of anything, and the developer and IT security sites I frequent can't either. Maybe it's happening, but it has to be something, not just some vague evil. Ultimately it would need to be, at the end of the day, something that makes the entire exercise worth it for Apple, iow it must translate to money. It is really easy to see how Google and FaceBook make money doing this, namely, targeted advertising, which is a proven source of immense capital. Apple doesn't have an advertising network and is not selling the data, so if they are collecting it, why?

 

[Olumin]

Big-tech collects user & device data not just for advertising purposes but also primarily for market and customer research aswell as training & improving various services, algorithms or virtual assistants. Data is incredibly valuable for this purpose. Apple also does provide access of certain data to 3rd party apps or service providers for the same reasons, this is, in effect, selling data.

This is even explicitly stated in their privacy policy; "We make certain non-personal data available to our advertisers and strategic partners that work with Apple to provide our products and services, help Apple market to customers, and sell ads on Apple's behalf". Or here; "We may collect, use, transfer, and disclose non-personal data for any purpose.". Same applies to Apple TV, Apple Music, Stocks or App store. What is & isn't considered personal data by Apples standards is hazy at best & not clearly defined. Personal data is also being collected, as stated here; "Apple uses personal data to power our services, to process your transactions, to communicate with you, for security and fraud prevention, and to comply with law.". When Apple allows for disabling of personal data collection, it is, again, not clearly defined what does or doesn't constitute personal data. Apple claims to enforce certain data security measures, such as stripping your data personal identifies, onto 3rd party apps & services. In practice this is essentially impossible to enforce.

I use an iPhone because of its simple & intuitive UI aswell as its reliable hardware, but not for security reasons. Apple isnt evil, but as a major, publicly traded company its responsibility lies in its profitability, not in its users data security.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Yeah some of your info gets shared, especially if you use a picture sharing site. Can't begin to tell you how many of my photos show up in Google searches and other search engines from the photobucket days. Once it's at those places Katy bar the door.

A few of my pictures usually show-up from searching Foursevens flashlights. I've always thought it was a result of me posting them on CPF. I could be wrong.

 

[chillinn]

Big-tech collects user & device data not just for advertising purposes but also primarily for market and customer research aswell as training & improving various services, algorithms or virtual assistants. Data is incredibly valuable for this purpose. Apple also does provide access of certain data to 3rd party apps or service providers for the same reasons, this is, in effect, selling data.

This is even explicitly stated in their privacy policy; "We make certain non-personal data available to our advertisers and strategic partners that work with Apple to provide our products and services, help Apple market to customers, and sell ads on Apple's behalf". Or here; "We may collect, use, transfer, and disclose non-personal data for any purpose.". Same applies to Apple TV, Apple Music, Stocks or App store. What is & isn't considered personal data by Apples standards is hazy at best & not clearly defined. Personal data is also being collected, as stated here; "Apple uses personal data to power our services, to process your transactions, to communicate with you, for security and fraud prevention, and to comply with law.". When Apple allows for disabling of personal data collection, it is, again, not clearly defined what does or doesn't constitute personal data. Apple claims to enforce certain data security measures, such as stripping your data personal identifies, onto 3rd party apps & services. In practice this is essentially impossible to enforce.

I use an iPhone because of its simple & intuitive UI aswell as its reliable hardware, but not for security reasons. Apple isnt evil, but as a major, publicly traded company its responsibility lies in its profitability, not in its users data security.

No offense intended to you, Olumin, and I really appreciate you giving this perspective, but your argument is vague and unconvincing. Fundamentally, it is a hasty generalization of the form "all big business does this, Apple is big business, so Apple does this," basically a corporate boogie man argument. We know that for Google's and Facebook's (and others') business model to even work, it must be centered around collecting personal data and online tracking so that online targeted advertisement can function.

Apple is a hardware company. All that is required for their business model to work is that they sell their hardware, though they also sell some software, and their App Store package manager is insanely profitable for them, they are still fundamentally a hardware company. And they're at a level now where their hardware is flying out of their inventory, and for a long time. Remember that they ran out of the original iPad stock, miscalculating how popular it would be, and they lost a lot of money because of that. If they were doing intensive market research, that would not have occurred. All Apple needs to do is keep up with demand of their product, which is massive. Marketing is incredibly useful to lesser or unknown companies and their product, while Apple is the most recognizable company on the planet now, edging out Coca-Cola years ago. Apple doesn't need to market in the way that you think that they do. All they really need to do is announce new products. The products market themselves.

Also, you are mischaracterizing the collection of data by third parties on Apple devices. Apple doesn't make any profit from that, and because developer overhead is identical whether they collect data or not, I'm not sure how you can reasonably say that Apple is selling them that data.

Every updated Apple device gives the option of opting out of data collection by third parties, and, further, this feature nags the user to make a decision rather than defaulting either way. IOW, you are required to opt into data collection for it to occur. But in particular what I think would be concerning to you, and how to deal with it, is covered in this article.

Regarding Apple's new advertising services, ads have so far been confined to AppStore and News+. Though the new service when announced provoked a lot of outrage, we haven't yet seen what is feared, but presumably it will at least extend to AppleTV. Maybe I'm a little unsympathetic towards the fears of finger-pointers here, but I don't use AppStore, News+ or AppleTV, and if I can avoid them, so can anyone else.

Apple does not do any direct mail marketing nor any targeted online advertising where market research is effective. Apple has B2C (such as selling to Best Buy), B2C (corporate sales), and DTC (Apple Stores) marketing. Apple's entire marketing strategy to their customers is centered around UVP (Unique Value Proposition, i.e. how they improve aspects of their customers' lives) solely using a combination of TV commercials, and very recently (since 2019) print advertising (in periodicals with massive subscription base such as the nyt, wsj, lat, etc.) to promote product lines, for which individual market research would be entirely useless. Apple also relies heavily on their yearly keynote speeches, where new new products and advancements to the public are introduced.

One last aspect I can think of, which may be considered a marketing strategy in a way, is that Apple is incredibly secretive. The only way we hear about what Apple is doing is through rumor. Apple has gone so far as to prosecute an individual that picked up a lost (left) device prototype (at a bar I think) after that individual posted images of it online. The device was returned, the images taken down, and the charges were dropped. Apple effectively ran the Think Secret rumor website out of business through litigation. This is an interesting marketing strategy that I expect was the brain child of none other than Steve Jobs. While most companies would happily accept the free advertising, Apple uses secrecy and jealously protecting all information about their upcoming products in order to drive interest. And it is weird, but it works.

I should also add in the interests of full disclosure that I own and use Apple products (a few Macs (the newest is a 2012 release) and an iPad mini 5th gen), but when I work, it is in the corporate IT space, which is dominated by Microsoft. I consider myself agnostic and my ideology is solution-based (whatever works) and centered on each client's pleasure (whatever they want). I would never waste my time and their's telling them "try Apple," when they requested or specced Windows, Linux, BSD, Oracle, whathaveyou. I just don't care enough, and it's important to my success that the client is satisfied. The easiest and most profitable path to that end is to give them exactly what they want, for better or worse, and support their continuing needs. Microsoft Windows, for all its flaws and security issues, has caused me a number of sleepless nights, but it has also provided me living income over the decades, for which I am grateful.

 

[Olumin]

Well if I cant convince you then Ill stop trying. The information is publicly available if you are interested in doing further research at a later date. I also recommend looking up artificial scarcity in business, since you mentioned the whole iPad thing. This is, for example, essentially Rolex's entire business model. Make millions, deliberately stock limited numbers on shelves, watch people lining up at stores, putting themselves on waiting lists, while driving up secondary market prices, which increases 1st party sales & makes your product appear more desirable. Sounds a lot like Apple, at least to me. Although to a lesser extreme of cause.

I do however implore everyone not to put too much trust in big tech companies, or any big companies for that matter. Remember that a business's biggest priority is profit (as without it, there is no business). If more profit can be made or your market share increased, then it will be done, even at the expense of the customer. At least as long as they can get away with it. This is just the universal state of affairs, for better or worse. Assuming anything else is a bit native.

 

[chillinn]

The iPad thing was a mistake. iPads aren't worth anything, whether they were scarce or not. If there's a buyer, you better have something to sell them. Leaving buyers without product is leaving money on the table. Apple misjudged how popular iPad would be and only ordered so many units (iirc it was 250K, LMAO, someone was fired for that), which they quickly sold out of and had to order more to meet demand. They lost money in the meantime. Going out of stock of something is a boneheaded mistake, except, I suppose, in the diamond, Rolex and oil business (iow cartels). That doesn't work for technology, because if there is a demand a product will appear to fill it. Apple only need make sure it is their product. So while they were ordering more units, customers bought Kindels and tablet PCs, and they lost those sales. That was its significance, that it was a mistake, and had they done due dilligence with market research, that mistake would not have been made

I do however implore everyone not to put too much trust in big tech companies, or any big companies for that matter. Remember that a business's biggest priority is profit (as without it, there is no business). If more profit can be made or your market share increased, then it will be done, even at the expense of the customer. At least as long as they can get away with it. This is just the universal state of affairs, for better or worse. Assuming anything else is a bit native.

Largely, I agree with this. Big Business is a mindless evil ever seeking more and more profit, squeezing out small business and creating monopoly. There is one company that makes frames for glasses, only one, and it has many fronts, and that is why 3¢ of plastic costs $300. But the only way the little guy can do anything to stop Big Business is with their purchases, somewhat, but mostly with their votes. Hint: don't vote for the guys that want to deregulate all business, because that results in the individual being squashed and all wealth gravitating towards and remaining in the hands of a tiny, tiny percentage of individuals. Ignore all other concerns and always vote in your personal economic interests if you ever want to improve your economic opportunity. Do not make choices now based on how you want it to be when you are rich, someday, because doing that will ensure that day will never come. /rant

 

[Olumin]

Most customers set on buying from apple arent gonna switch to android because the new iPhone or iPad is out of stock. They wait or buy grey/secondary market. For brand new products secondary prices are often higher then MSRP, so they buy from Apple instead. For a lot of people its a ecosystem they are buying into, so they are invested in it. Its true that this businesses model doasnt work for most other companies but apple is unique in that way. The iPad thing may have been a genuine mistake, I dont know anything further about it. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[chillinn]

My best friend just abandoned his iPhone for an Android, last year's model that is about to be updated. His wife and kids still have iPhones. His wife is an anti-Mac PC builder. He seems pretty satisfied with Android. idk what issues he had with the iPhone, but my feeling is he just wanted to try something different.

But about his wife, she'll suffer through mistakes, like ordering the wrong PC components she can't return, and will never consider purchase of a Mac, of which the current low end model is probably twice as performant and at least half as expensive. I don't begrudge her decisions because I know the journey is what she likes about it. Macs don't provide that journey. I honestly considered buying her a new mini, $600, to save her the grief of this PC she's been building for half a year (she's not inept, just busy), before I realized that it wouldn't make a difference. She doesn't want it to be easy. She wants a hard puzzle and the satisfaction of accomplishment. And I respect that immensely. I have built a lot of PCs in the day for others, and it is fun, but then most of the work turned to monkeying with laptops. I have spent enough time waist deep in laptops that are supposedly easy to reconfigure or repair (over 2000 laptops for a metro school district, among others). I'm glad I'll never have to do it again, because it's my choice. No thanks.

 

[Olumin]

Apples sells a experience & lifestyle, at least thats how a lot people, including apple, sees it. Its a more of less complete interconnected ecosystem of devices, which work together quite seamlessly. Personally I use only a iPhone, but my computers always ran windows. I dont listen to music on my phone & if I want to transfer a picture I just send a email to myself.

In German we have a saying that goes: "Ausnahmen bestätigen bekanntlich die Regel". Means as much as "Its well known that exceptions prove the rule".

 

[chillinn]

That's definitely how Apple sees it. Maybe it's true for many or most of their customers. But I don't have an Apple Watch that syncs my activity data to the Cloud and shows me analytics of my heart rate over time and whatever. That seems ridiculous to me, but some people like wasting their time being obsessed with themselves. Maybe Apple is taking advantage of their character flaws. I use the Macs I have for their compactness, the stability of the OS, and its BSD foundation. My Macs are apache2 servers for the sole purpose of easily exposing my media to my wireless network so I can watch a movie on the can. I just use iPad for that local media consumption through the browser's media player, web, email and photos, so that my Macs aren't exposed (if an attacker successfully infiltrates my iPad, so what? Let them! All my data is elsewhere). I'm not with all those other Apple consumers.

 

[bykfixer]

Mrs Fixer uses a tablet a lot. She kept having to replace ones run on android, often shortly after an update. My sister had an ancient ipad and reccomended she try one. We went with an entry level model and were very happy with that one but the memory filled up quickly. By then entry level ones had way more memory. She moaned and groaned for the first 30 days of ipad ownership but several years later she has no interest in a window or android tablet.

The only tablet I use is a Nexus 7, that was never updated. Everybody in my family had one and all died after an OS update. Mine was never updated and works just fine. I used to use it for electronic repair manuals for cars I used to own and for Bible reading but these days it needs to stay plugged in due to short battery life. I liked the idea of an android phone and android tablet but never wanted a 10" tablet. When I made the switch to apple phone I never saw the need to switch to an apple tablet.

 

[raggie33]

I don't care about the is to much there both good but apples hardware is so much better there ipad air comes with a m1 crazy good cpu the a14 inst bad either

 

[KITROBASKIN]

I avoid iCloud but could be wrong. Seems like it got hacked once (or Apple had something go wrong internally)

My iPhone 13 uses very little battery if it is not used for video or search. Screen-on takes some power but otherwise it is long lasting. I used to have Siri activate only by pushing the button but got too many false responses when bending down, etc.

Now I do the “Hey Siri” thing and have not noticed reduced battery runtime. (Not that I measured it)

We live in a very fringe signal area and iPhone does not burn up a lot of power seeking signal. Maybe Android is good about that now days.