Li-Ion in winter

[chiphead]

Hi Guys

Can someone tell me how Lithium Ion batteries act in cold weather, as I've just started using them this summer? I'm getting an early start on building my 2009 Winter Kit and I don't want any surprises when the wind chill is -4f. That is, if we have a winter down here in Austin,TX.

chiphead..Lithium Ion newby

 

[StarHalo]

Li-ions dislike cold conditions, and will start getting iffy around 0 F. As a general rule, you should avoid rechargeables in extreme temperatures (high or low). If you must use a Li-Ion in the cold, keep the flashlight close to your body, in an inside pocket, so that it will remain warm enough to perform when needed.

 

[FlashInThePan]

Also remember that rechargeable batteries have a much higher self-discharge rate than primaries, and a lower capacity to begin with. As a result, if these batteries are going to be used in an environment where they might not be needed for a year or two (e.g. in your car emergency kit), you might find that they're not ready when you need `em - or that they last only a very short time.

I'd highly recommend that you use primaries for your emergency kits - that's what I have in mine.

Just my two cents; hope it helps!

- FITP

 

[fareast]

try finding info on using primary lithums for cold weather:

from the Engergizer site

• Last up to 8x longer in digital cameras (versus Energizer® MAX®. results vary by camera.)
• Weigh 1/3 less than standard alkaline batteries
• Perform in extreme temperatures from -40°F to 140°F
• 15 year storage life
• Leak resistant construction

but, they're more expensive.

 

[StarHalo]

try finding info on using primary lithums for cold weather

Primary lithiums should be your first choice for an emergency kit or car light, as they have the least amount of self-discharge and are comfortable in a broad range of temperatures.

 

[chiphead]

Since dog sledders in Alaska use lithium cells, I though for sure lithium ion would handle the cold without a hitch! I'd don't we'll see 0 here in Sub-Saharan Texas, but I'll keep them handy as back-ups. And you can't have to many back-up these days. Thanks fellas!

chiphead

 

[Ziemas]

My real life experience is that they work just fine in temps down to -25c for at least 45 minutes. That's the coldest and longest I've had a chance to use 18650 (both Trustfire 2400 and AW 2200) cells. I used them daily whilst cycling last winter with no issues at all. If I'm okay in Riga, I'm sure you'll be okay in balmy Austin.

FWIW the Trustfire has considerably longer runtime in my lights.

 

[rlb4]

What would be better for an in car stored emergency flashlight, CR123A primary or Eneloops?

 

[lolzertank]

What would be better for an in car stored emergency flashlight, CR123A primary or Eneloops?

CR123A primary.

 

[StarHalo]

What would be better for an in car stored emergency flashlight, CR123A primary or Eneloops?

+1 for 123, but specifically ONE 123; you bump up the odds of something going wrong when you have two or more in extreme conditions.

The L91/Energizer Lithium is still the ideal choice, as you can also use multiples of these without worry.

 

[rlb4]

+1 for 123, but specifically ONE 123; you bump up the odds of something going wrong when you have two or more in extreme conditions.

The L91/Energizer Lithium is still the ideal choice, as you can also use multiples of these without worry.

What do you mean by "specifically ONE 123"? Which would be better, an Energizer CR123A or an Energizer L91/AA?

 

[StarHalo]

What do you mean by "specifically ONE 123"? Which would be better, an Energizer CR123A or an Energizer L91/AA?

In a single-cell light, either is fine (though I would still go with the AA, as AAs are much easier/cheaper to come by if one dies/becomes damaged; you may even have equipment in your car that has AAs you could use in a pinch)

In a light with more than one cell, AA is the safer choice. A single quality 123 by itself is not an issue, but when there's more than one in a harsh environment (specifically fluctuating extreme temperatures), you can over time exacerbate the voltage differences between them and end up with a vent or failure.

 

[rlb4]

In a single-cell light, either is fine (though I would still go with the AA, as AAs are much easier/cheaper to come by if one dies/becomes damaged; you may even have equipment in your car that has AAs you could use in a pinch)

In a light with more than one cell, AA is the safer choice. A single quality 123 by itself is not an issue, but when there's more than one in a harsh environment (specifically fluctuating extreme temperatures), you can over time exacerbate the voltage differences between them and end up with a vent or failure.

I see. Thanks. I have a Romisen RC-N3 II that can use either 2xAA or 1xCR123A.

 

[chiphead]

Li-ion in winter

Fellas!

Going into my first winter with Li-Ion cells (18650-16340) cells, are there some cold weather tips I should know about? To date I've got the following brands:
Tenergy = 3
UltraFire = 6
AW = 2

Chiphead

 

[Burgess]

Re: Li-ion in winter

to Chiphead --


Just gotta' give you a big ThumbsUp for this clever thread title !

:thumbsup:___:goodjob:
_

 

[sed6]

Re: Li-ion in winter

Li-ion in particular, and I believe all batts in general, perform best when warm ie 70 degrees plus. I wouldn't leave Li-ions in your truck or shed during the winter and expect them to perform all that well. Actually for infrequently used lights stored in a truck or shed should be using primaries anyway. Use the Li-ions and other rechargables in your most frequently used lights which are probably on your person or within easy reach and in both cases hopefully somewhere indoors and warm.

 

[StarHalo]

Re: Li-ion in winter

From the last "Rechargeables In Cold" thread:

The problem is that the lowest operating temperature listed for a battery is the temp at which it's pretty much guaranteed to fail - it will still be erratic at any temperature near that value; For example, alkalines have a minimum operating temperature of 0F, but they'll start getting iffy around 20F. NiMHs and Li-Ions are only rated to 20F, so anything below freezing is pushing your luck (we have had CPF members use Li-Ions in ~0F conditions, but at least one reported that the battery lost capacity/was damaged by it. Again, a good rule of thumb is no rechargeables in extreme heat or cold.) Lithium primaries are good down to -40F, so even approaching the temp where they'd be questionable would be quite difficult..

 

[chiphead]

Re: Li-ion in winter

to Chiphead --


Just gotta' give you a big ThumbsUp for this clever thread title !

:thumbsup:___:goodjob:
_

Thank you, I think I'd had one to many Samuel Adam Winter Bocks that night.

chiphead

 

[chiphead]

Re: Li-ion in winter

From the last "Rechargeables In Cold" thread:

Is this the gospel or what? I was watching a story on the Alaskan dog mussers during the Ididorod racing. GOD my spelling sucks! Anyway. They'd mention that they all used Energizer lithium cells. Better stock up as this is going to be a cold/wet winter.

chiphead

 

[jslappa]

Re: Li-ion in winter

Great thread guys. I hadn't even thought about the upcoming Michigan winter and my choice in EDC lights. I think I'll put my 18650 lights away soon and switch to my lights that run on Lithium primaries. I usaed to work at a refridgerated warehouse and the icecream freezer was -20F, and it was freekin cold. every time you breath in, your nose hairs freexe instantly, then thaw when breathing out. Hillarious, really.

Good to know that my D10 on Energizer Lithium primaries will work anywhere I go this winter!