Li-Ion in winter

Egsise

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Re: Li-ion in winter

Energizer Lithium primaries are a good backup, but in every day use in cold weather i would use Eneloops or Hybrids.
 

jslappa

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Re: Li-ion in winter

Thanks Egsise. I see that many do love the Sanyo Eneloops here on the forum.

I've still got about 75 Energizer Lithium L91's left, so I will most likely use most of them up before looking for another cell to use for primary use. My D10 is my only AA light, so it will be quite some time before my stash is depleted.
 

Nyctalopia

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Re: Li-ion in winter

Does anyone have any discharge curves for 18650 Li Ion's in cold weather? I just cannot find any actual data on performance at or below 0 degrees C..
 

Egsise

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Re: Li-ion in winter

Does anyone have any discharge curves for 18650 Li Ion's in cold weather? I just cannot find any actual data on performance at or below 0 degrees C..

I have tested AA NiMH and alkaline performance in cold, and when i find the time i will also test Wolf-Eyes 18650.
 

Black Rose

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Re: Li-ion in winter

I think I'll put my 18650 lights away soon and switch to my lights that run on Lithium primaries.
I don't plan on putting my 18650/17670 lights away for the winter.

I'll just have to ensure they are kept in warm locations (i.e. close to the body) when I have them outside.
 

Egsise

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Re: Li-ion in winter

I just used my Quark AAW with 14500 whateverfire unprotected Li-ion outside, worked ok, it was only -10ºC though.
 

AnAppleSnail

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Re: Li-ion in winter

I just used my Quark AAW with 14500 whateverfire unprotected Li-ion outside, worked ok, it was only -10ºC though.

My own experience is that keeping your flashlights and cameras warm is the best bet. My WF-606A coughed and sputtered in Bloomington, IN due to the cold - but when I kept it in an inside pocket it stayed warmish enough in a gloved hand to work. I think I was feeding it NiMH at the time, and it glowed about like an old Nichia 5mm LED. The temperature was around 2F, with some lovely windchill (The only time I've seen snow skitter across the road like sand, and it was quite dry and grippy for driving).

There's a reason SureFire (and the military) pushes Lithium primaries so hard - that sort of chemistry is nearly guaranteed to work when you need it to. That comes at a cost...and my belt-carry keeps my light in alkaline-range. I'm also interested in detailed cold-weather performance of batteries, because I travel quite a bit for my photography.
 

AnAppleSnail

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Re: Li-ion in winter

Search "freezer test" ;)

And forget the windchill thingy too, flashlights don't feel it. :D

Ah, I see now. Windchill sure cools the light down from body-warm fast though ^.^

*Take out of pocket*
*turn on light*
*SHIIIIIIIiiiiiinnnnnneeeeeurp*
*Pocket light*
 

VidPro

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Re: Li-ion in winter

it has been said that Li-Ion should not be CHARGED in extreeme cold conditions. as it can lose some capacity permentally.
 

Benson

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Re: Li-ion in winter

I think I'll put my 18650 lights away soon and switch to my lights that run on Lithium primaries.
Depends how you carry and use them, of course, but I think most users really shouldn't put them away. If the weather's cold enough to be a real problem, you probably have on a coat long enough to cover any lights on your belt, and anything in pants pockets or inside coat pockets should definitely be fine. Maybe if you carry them in an outside pocket of a coat...

But I used Li-ion-powered flashlights routinely last winter, including one carried in an outside pocket, with occasional subzero weather, and experienced no trouble -- maybe usable capacity and/or current did drop some, but nothing I could even notice. Never messed with -20F, though, and that may be a whole different ball game.

But remember, if your light can cool off while it's in your hand being used, that just means you need to go to high mode! (If you're already in high mode, you need an SST-90 light, and/or to move away from Alaska, Canada, or Siberia.) :crackup:
 

Egsise

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Re: Li-ion in winter

TK11R2hotncoldWE2200mAh18650.gif


The test was done in the same way as other tests in this thread, starting voltage was 4.19V.
Looks that WE 18650 works quite well in cold.
 
Last edited:

StarHalo

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Re: Li-ion in winter

Looks that WE 18650 works quite well in cold.

It works very well for a flashlight that is stored in the cold and then operated at room temperature. It would be dangerously misleading to state that a rechargeable cell works fine when operated out in the cold - someone trying to use their flashlight in an arctic storm could get a nasty surprise when they suddenly need light.
 

Egsise

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Re: Li-ion in winter

It works very well for a flashlight that is stored in the cold and then operated at room temperature. It would be dangerously misleading to state that a rechargeable cell works fine when operated out in the cold - someone trying to use their flashlight in an arctic storm could get a nasty surprise when they suddenly need light.
Please read the thread about how the test was made.:rolleyes:
In a nutshell, yes the test is made in room temp, but...
I know that my test is good for only few minutes from the beginning, why, and many more answers you can find in the original test thread.

And trust me, the TK11 R2 I tested will be used in arctic storm, mainly with 18650, but CR123's as backup.
 

Bones

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Re: Li-ion in winter

it has been said that Li-Ion should not be CHARGED in extreeme cold conditions. as it can lose some capacity permentally.

From the Black & Decker VPX Charger manual:

Important charging notes:

Longest life and best performance can be obtained if the battery pack is charged when the air temperature is between 65°F and 75°F (18°C-24°C). DO NOT charge the battery pack in a temperature below +40°F (+4.5°C), or above 105°F (+40.5°C). This is important and will prevent serious damage to the battery pack.

Note: The charger will not charge a battery pack if the pack temperature is below approximately 32°F (0°C) or above 122°F (50°C). The battery pack should be left in the charger and the charger will begin to charge automatically when the cell temperature warms up or cools down.
...
 

Bones

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Re: Li-ion in winter

This chart from BatteryData.com indicates Li-Ion cells can deliver close to 90% of their capacity at minus 20°C:



According to this CurrentResults.com Nexus, this should make them immanently usable in most of the United States:

http://www.currentresults.com ... weather-extremes

Incidentally, the Eneloop NiMH low self-discharge cell delivers much better capacity than indicated here, so I presume this chart is more representative of the regular chemistry cell:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post3078053

http://www.eneloop.info ... low-temperature.html

A (slight) diversion:

The coldest natural temperature ever recorded on Earth was -89.2°C (-128.6°F) at the Russian Vostok Station in Antarctica July 21, 1983.

More...
 

chiphead

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Re: Li-ion in winter

Just had my first winter with my AW cells, they say in my truck with the temps around temps 29~33f along the flightlines. After getting home I put one in the charger just to see if it would need recharging. And it did, it took about 6 hours to charge this thing! This may or may not mean a thing as I don't recall charging them first. If nothing else, I think these AWs need a better charger that what I've got now. With more cold weather to come I'll keep using them as first-line, with a trusty Inova unit just in case.

chiphead
 

chiphead

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Li-Ion in Winter 3

Anyone have any tips on protection Lithium batteries this winter?
chiphead
 
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