LiFeP04s from e-lectronics.net - ever use them? OK website?

[bullfrog]

Just curious - anybody ever use these LiFeP04s batteries from e-lectronics.net? They look similar to the ones AW sells over on BST but are marked as 450mah where AWs are 500mah - is this be a big difference?

http://e-lectronics.net/cr123-volt-....html?osCsid=3b65d523b87052e5dd1babeab7bd4149

Any concerns about these batteries or this website? Seems like a good deal to me - of course I haven't looked at shipping yet...

 

[Niconical]

I would avoid them for various reasons.
The main one being that the manufacturer of these cells chose to put "3.0v" printed on the side, which lifepo4 aren't. :shakehead
That doesn't fill me with confidence.

If you want LiFePO4, stick to AW

 

[bullfrog]

Thanks Nick - appreciate and trust your advice! :twothumbs

On a side note - been using my AW LiFeP04s for the past week in my C2/M60 - love the free lumens! Thanks again for the help with that decision as well.

 

[purduephotog]

I would avoid them for various reasons.
The main one being that the manufacturer of these cells chose to put "3.0v" printed on the side, which lifepo4 aren't. :shakehead
That doesn't fill me with confidence.

If you want LiFePO4, stick to AW

I'm confused here. Everything I have ever seen on LiFePO4 says 3.0V chargers-
http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=74218926wv2.jpg
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159851

and 3.2V LiFePO4 cells.

Is it because 3.0V usually refers to LiPoly cells?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
Wiki states 3.0V to 3.3V working voltages for LiFePO4

 

[winston]

I'll go to bat for Mark on this one. I've got two of his LiFePo4 cells in a Fenix P3D, one in an Amilite Neo T5, and one under the couch. Never had a problem with any of them. Mark's always been very helpful when I've had questions, and he gets orders out quickly. Also a big fan of the realistic capacity claims. :thumbsup:
-Winston

 

[Markcm]

Hi Folks, and thanks for the kind words Winston.

Hopefully this info helps, I am Mark (e-lectronics), these are Lifepo4 and the quality is about as good as any other out there...500mAh from anyone on this type of cell is a stretch in my opinion I find the LifePo4 to have a limited niche with its inherent low capacity in the 16340 format. If you have a low current draw application and need the lower voltage (lower as compared to the Li-ion) these cells may work well for you.

Yes they are marked 3.0v which is a very accurate "nominal voltage" for this battery, just the same as a li-ion is marked 3.6 or 3.7 even though they top charge to 4.2v. Something to keep in minde is that there currently is no one-for-one rechargeable replacement for a disposable Lithium battery, the intent of marketing a Lifepo4 as 3.0v is not to give that impression either; keep in mind that a disposable lithium battery is 3v when unloaded but spends it nominal discharge under 3.0v

I've posted some actual discharge plots of these cells at the product page if anyone is interested in the discharge curve. Here's one of the curves:

Cheers,
Mark
These are

Just curious - anybody ever use these LiFeP04s batteries from e-lectronics.net? They look similar to the ones AW sells over on BST but are marked as 450mah where AWs are 500mah - is this be a big difference?

http://e-lectronics.net/cr123-volt-....html?osCsid=3b65d523b87052e5dd1babeab7bd4149

Any concerns about these batteries or this website? Seems like a good deal to me - of course I haven't looked at shipping yet...

 

[LuxLuthor]

Yes they are marked 3.0v which is a very accurate "nominal voltage" for this battery, just the same as a li-ion is marked 3.6 or 3.7 even though they top charge to 4.2v.

Mark, thanks for your post. Your saying 3.0v is a very accurate "nominal voltage," in comparison to others is probably the most realistic. In reality, the nominal descriptions are not uniform, and it generates confusion. Having the Ultrafire give a setting of 3.0V when it charges this chemistry to 3.6V is counter-intuitive.

AW describes his as 3.2V

A123 Systems Inc brands theirs as 3.3V.

On the higher side, the VPX 2 cell pack lists them as 3.5V nominal, despite their using A123 brand cells.

IMHO, for your cells to be taken seriously, you need to have some higher discharge rate graphs above 100mA for people to know if they are of acceptable quality (and I have no reason to say they are not).

 

[Markcm]

Hi LuxL

I guess from looking at the curve I posted, it looks a bit more like 3.2v for the nominal but that is at the low 100ma rate as you mentioned. From what I recall when the load is higher the nominal seemed lower. Kind of like a Li-ion which can vary from 3.6-3.8 I guess.

I'll put a higher discharge of these cells on my to-do list, I hope I haven't given the impression that any of these regardless of who they are from are great performing cells at high draws because I don't believe they are. I'm also not trying to prove anything or plug mine vs. any of the other suppliers either, I just wanted to participate with the info I have regarding these cells.

I think you nailed it when you put the words confusion and RCR123 together, there's a million threads to prove that:laughing:

Regarding your Ultrafire comment, I think you're referring to the wf138 charger with selectable voltages, correct? As far as I can tell, ultrafire was referring to the nominal operating voltage of the battery for its settings rather than the actual peak charge voltages; that makes some sense when you think about it. The 3.0 setting on the charger peaks at 3.6 which is a pretty typical peak charge voltage for Lifepo4 and the 3.6 charger setting which is the common nominal Li-ion voltage charges to a peak 4.2v. I'm sure it could have been stated a bit more clear but atleast it makes some sense and it isn't out-right inaccurate like many of the direct China products.

By the way, I'm not a big fan of this cell technology in the 16340 format although I've used them plenty; I'm of the opinion they are hurting over 500mA. What discharge rate would you like to see? I don't mind running it regardless of how bad the performance is, after all... it is what it is!

Mark, thanks for your post. Your saying 3.0v is a very accurate "nominal voltage," in comparison to others is probably the most realistic. In reality, the nominal descriptions are not uniform, and it generates confusion. Having the Ultrafire give a setting of 3.0V when it charges this chemistry to 3.6V is counter-intuitive.

AW describes his as 3.2V

A123 Systems Inc brands theirs as 3.3V.

On the higher side, the VPX 2 cell pack lists them as 3.5V nominal, despite their using A123 brand cells.

IMHO, for your cells to be taken seriously, you need to have some higher discharge rate graphs above 100mA for people to know if they are of acceptable quality (and I have no reason to say they are not).

 

[LuxLuthor]

Mark, honestly I don't use this size in rechargeable Li-Ion of any chemistry, so I don't have a need personally for a discharge graph. I just know the general game of many battery promoters using the most optimistic discharge technique/rates which doesn't tell the real story about a cell.

My comment on the ultrafire was from the AW link I posted. He references that charger with image and 3.0 setting instructions. I use other chargers for my Li-Ions.

 

[odessit]

[Semi-OT]
Regarding the e-lectronics.net website - I ordered 2* Q5 on 15mm base on Sunday. Got shipment notification Monday morning, received them on Wednesday. The shipping charges are very fair, LEDs are packed good for shipping. 3 day turnaround from US based company beats waiting a 10 days or more for DX.
Thanks Mark, I'll be using your website again.

 

[HarryN]

I was curious if you carried any protected or safe chemistry R CR2 size cells ?

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Just curious - anybody ever use these LiFeP04s batteries from e-lectronics.net? They look similar to the ones AW sells over on BST but are marked as 450mah where AWs are 500mah - is this be a big difference?

http://e-lectronics.net/cr123-volt-....html?osCsid=3b65d523b87052e5dd1babeab7bd4149

Any concerns about these batteries or this website? Seems like a good deal to me - of course I haven't looked at shipping yet...

Hello all,

I know little about LiFeP04s, but I do know a bit about e-lectronics.net. I have been getting li-ion cells, drivers, chargers etc from Mark for a while now and one thing remains constant, everything I have purchased from e-lectronics was as advertized nothing more nothing less. I also feel the need to mention the fastest shipping I have ever gotten from an e-store. The most valuable thing I have found there is information/knowledge. When I was new to this hobby Mark sold me my first li-ion cells and made sure I knew exactly what to do and more importantly what NOT to do with them.

 

[Markcm]

I was curious if you carried any protected or safe chemistry R CR2 size cells ?

Hi Harry, I don't have anything in CR2 format. I've seen bare Li-ion advertised and I've seen some that claim 3.0v rechargeable but I believe this is mis-represented and I don't believe there actually is a 3.0v, protect or LiFePO4 format CR2 available (anyone please correct me if I'm wrong). If I am wrong, I would suspect a rechargeable CR2 format in any chemistry, protected or not would be such low capacity it would not be very useful and also make sure that the driver in the light (assuming your working with a flashlight) could handle the voltage of the rechargeable format.

-Markcm

 

[HarryN]

Hi Markcm - Thank you for the reply.

The light I have is one I designed to run on primary or R CR2 size cells (2 in seris).

It is a simple resistor design in practice, but quite a bit went into LED Vf selection, resistance decisions, and discharge curve balance.

It works fine with primary CR2 cells (or R cells), but primaries are kind of expensive to run, so I started using protected R CR2 cells from AW. Officially, his were rated at 350ma with a 2 C discharge max recommended, so that is where I designed things to run. In practice, it actually does go about 30 minutes as the LED Vf curve and battery discharge curve work together to balance out. (with some decline in light output at the end)

My challenge is that AW does not have access to this cell anymore, and I would like to make more of these lights, but without a reasonably safe R CR2 format (some kind of protection from circuit or chemistry) I am kind of stuck.

It does not really matter to me if the cell is closer to 3.low or 3.high volts - I can deal with that. I cannot really deal with an uprotected R Li Ion cell as the only R option.

Thanks for the inputs.

Harry