LiFePO4 RCR123 vs Regular RCR123 Batteries

wichaka

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I know the basic info. of the batteries have been hashed over a few times, but I have a specific question.

I have a friend that reps for Surefire, and he sent me the rechargeable battery/charger package, with the K2 3.2 volt 600mah batteries.
They work good, but have a short run time. So am guessing a battery with a larger mah would solve that problem?

I see that Tenergy has two 3.2 volt RCR123's that are 750 & 900mah. Yet when contacting Tenergy direct, they state not to use these batteries in Surefires.
I asked them why, they said the batteries may have a higher volt rating than is safe to use with Surefire lights. I pointed out the 3.2 volt rating. They said they come off the charger with a higher rating than that.

My question is, do RCR123 non-LiFePO4 batteries come off the charger with a higher volt reading than 3.2? I currently use a 16650 2200mah Efest battery in my 320 lum Surefire, and it is lasing a long time. Obviously the volts aren't as high, but am wanting find a battery(ies) that match closer to regualr 123 batteries.

Was hoping to use the 750 or 900 mah batteries, but not so sure now. Thoughts?
 

wichaka

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I should have added that the Tenergy 750 mah battery is a 3.2 LiFePO4 battery, but the 900mah battery is not.
 

snakyjake

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To compare manufacturer mAh ratings you need to read how the manufacturer derived the mAh rating. The manufacturers don't have to use the same criteria. We could be talking seconds of a difference, or maybe in small minutes, maybe nothing important or noticeable in reality.

The best part about LFP is no cutoff.
And fortunately for me, my time between charges is no problem.
 

chaosdsm

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Blue Label Tenergy 900mAh Li-Ion's are supposed to be a direct replacement for primary CR123A batteries & are designed to automatically step down (through voltage regulation on the battery) to 3.0V - 3.2V within 12 miliseconds of current being applied, which is why they label them as 3.0V
i-63kwhRx-L.jpg


Oh, and their Surefire statement is in regards to flashlights with incandescent bulbs:
"We do not recommend this setup for any SureFire flashlights, or other brands of incandescent (halogen, kyrton, xenon, etc) flashlights which have a bulb rated 7.2V and under."
 
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HKJ

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LiFePO4 does not use voltage regulation, that is used on LiCoO2.
A high capacity RCR123 will be LiCoO2 or the manufacturer is lying about the capacity.
 

chaosdsm

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LiFePO4 does not use voltage regulation, that is used on LiCoO2.
A high capacity RCR123 will be LiCoO2 or the manufacturer is lying about the capacity.

Yea, that's kind of why the label says "RCR123A 3.0V Rechargeable Li-Ion" instead of "RCR123A 3.2V Rechargeable LiFePO4"
 

wichaka

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When I talked to the Tenergy rep., they didn't make a difference as to incandescent or LED, they said flat out don't use their rechargeable batteries in Surefires.

A note, when I first took the K2's out of the package they were showing 3.4 volts each.

So am taking it that others have used the 900mah Tenergy RCR123A batteries without any problems?
 

chaosdsm

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Cannot say for sure on the 900mAh Tenergy since I do not have any Surefire lights. I did try them in my Nitecore SRT-7 & they definitely don't like the high drain of turbo mode.

Since those 900's are LiCoO2 based Lithium Ion's stepped down to 3.0V, Tenergy is probably just covering their bases in case the voltage regulation fails. But If I were to spend as much as Surefire wants for one of their flashlights, I wouldn't chance it.

Also, the 750mAh Tenergy LiFePO4's may not give any longer run time than the 600mAh K2's... Although I haven't seen actual test data, I have seen it suggested in the past that the Tenergy's are over rated & don't last nearly as long as AW's IMR16340 550mAh. Plus I cannot imagine them being any better than the RCR123A batteries Surefire choose to sell for use with their flashlights.
 

newbie66

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I know the basic info. of the batteries have been hashed over a few times, but I have a specific question.

I have a friend that reps for Surefire, and he sent me the rechargeable battery/charger package, with the K2 3.2 volt 600mah batteries.
They work good, but have a short run time. So am guessing a battery with a larger mah would solve that problem?

I see that Tenergy has two 3.2 volt RCR123's that are 750 & 900mah. Yet when contacting Tenergy direct, they state not to use these batteries in Surefires.
I asked them why, they said the batteries may have a higher volt rating than is safe to use with Surefire lights. I pointed out the 3.2 volt rating. They said they come off the charger with a higher rating than that.

My question is, do RCR123 non-LiFePO4 batteries come off the charger with a higher volt reading than 3.2? I currently use a 16650 2200mah Efest battery in my 320 lum Surefire, and it is lasing a long time. Obviously the volts aren't as high, but am wanting find a battery(ies) that match closer to regualr 123 batteries.

Was hoping to use the 750 or 900 mah batteries, but not so sure now. Thoughts?


May I ask how is the output on your surefire when you use the 16650? Is it a lot dimmer compared to using cr123s or just slightly?
 

wichaka

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The 16650 was recommended to me by another member on here, so picked up two Efest ICR 16650 2200mah batteries to use in my Surefire G2ZX 320 lum. light. There is a very slight difference in the output, something I can live with. The 16650 does last quite a bit longer than the normal 123's, so they are a good recommendation.

I then put one in my Surefire P2ZX Fury 500 lum. light. Again there was a very slight difference in lum. output, but can live with it.

I was thinking for sure there would be more of a difference in output with the lower overall voltage, but there's not much at all. But not knowing batteries that well, am guessing the high mah rating of 2200, keeps them going for a very long time.

But am still hoping to find the holy grail of 123 batteries, which I'm finding fast...does not exist in a re-chargeable. The trade off being, lower voltage = lower output, but longer run time. But have found the output difference is slight.
 
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newbie66

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The 16650 was recommended to me by another member on here, so picked up two Efest ICR 16650 2200mah batteries to use in my Surefire G2ZX 320 lum. light. There is a very slight difference in the output, something I can live with. The 16650 does last quite a bit longer than the normal 123's, so they are a good recommendation.

I then put one in my Surefire P2ZX Fury 500 lum. light. Again there was a very slight difference in lum. output, but can live with it.

I was thinking for sure there would be more of a difference in output with the lower overall voltage, but there's not much at all. But not knowing batteries that well, am guessing the high mah rating of 2200, keeps them going for a very long time.

But am still hoping to find the holy grail of 123 batteries, which I'm finding fast...does not exist in a re-chargeable. The trade off being, lower voltage = lower output, but longer run time. But have found the output difference is slight.


Thanks for the input! Even on the fury the output is only slightly less eh. That is nice to know. I think I will get the 16650 too for my G2X Pro 320 lumens. :)
 

wichaka

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You'd think with all the tech we have, someone could come up with a re-chargeable that is closer to being equal to two CR123's.
 

newbie66

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Battery advancement has not made big leaps unlike other techs unfortunately. Maybe in the future someone might just discover something big.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Battery advancement has not made big leaps unlike other techs unfortunately. Maybe in the future someone might just discover something big.

Depends what you consider big. There's only so much energy you can store in a chemical battery. The theoretical maximum is probably around 10x what we're achieving now, but given that we'll never get anywhere near "theoretical maximum", I'd guess we might achieve about 2x what we have now before we need something different than a chemical reaction.
 

Risky

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Blue Label Tenergy 900mAh Li-Ion's are supposed to be a direct replacement for primary CR123A batteries & are designed to automatically step down (through voltage regulation on the battery) to 3.0V - 3.2V within 12 miliseconds of current being applied, which is why they label them as 3.0V
i-63kwhRx-L.jpg


Oh, and their Surefire statement is in regards to flashlights with incandescent bulbs:
"We do not recommend this setup for any SureFire flashlights, or other brands of incandescent (halogen, kyrton, xenon, etc) flashlights which have a bulb rated 7.2V and under."

Are these safe to use in an Eotech?
 

wichaka

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Alrighty, so I did a little checking.

Coming off the charger, the K2 LiFePO4 rechargeable batteries (which came from Surefire) show 3.6 volts. Which is interesting given that there are warnings from Tenergy and others with their so called 3.0 volt batteries, not to use them with Surefire lights. Tenergy even has the same warning for their LiFePO4 3 volt 750mah batteries, not to use them with Surefire lights.

I ordered some anyway, and will try them on an older Surefire LED light to see what happens. I take it that I can charge the Tenergy LiFePO4 batteries on the same charger that I use for the K2's?

The next question, I went ahead and ordered some of the Tenergy 900 mah batteries as shown above. I take it they will act the same way? Come off the charger at 3.6 volts and still be okay to use? Or because they are LI-ION, they act different?
 
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