Lights should be expensive ---- Re: Why are Surefire lights expensive?

E

etc

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I re-read that thread. While I am not interested in examining that particular brand, the thought has occurred to me, what exactly is wrong with lights being expensive? The original thread was posted as if expense was a sin and cheapness was a virtue.

Not a thing wrong with expensive, they should be. Expensive means someone put a lot of thought into it and a lot of work and a lot of refinement.

Picture this, you are stuck in a cave somewhere, or on top of a mountain - do you want the cheapest Chimart special or a work of art?

Me, I will take a Malkoff over anything - anywhere. One of his $200 models. I want fully potted and heat-sinked. A nice reflector that he has.
I want it all. Price being no object. Well, do keep it under $1000, unless the thing has GPS capabilities as well.

If you are going into a circumstance that demands utter reliability, expensive is having your light fail and you resorting to a backup or none at all.

That's expensive.

Remember that cave incident in Thai? I do wonder what lights they used during that experience.
 
Kestrel

Kestrel

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Re: Lights should be expensive

Someone once said; you don't always get what you pay for, but you don't get what you don't pay for.

Me, I'll pay for quality upfront, every time.
It's pretty hard to solve problems with add'l money, once it's too late & you're in the middle of it.
 
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bykfixer

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Re: Lights should be expensive

Value.

Regardless of price. To me it's either a value or not.
 
E

etc

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Re: Lights should be expensive

Yeah, value is a good way to put it.

Expensive can be a good value item or not. An example of expensive but bad value, to me, is Titanium devices. They do not add any measurable durability or performance, aside from being a few grains lighter or so it seems. In a real world of course when you can buy two expensive devices for the price of one expensive Ti device.

Having said that, if I had unlimited budget, I would order a copy of all my lights made in Titanium.
Or not.
 
bykfixer

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Re: Lights should be expensive

Luxury.

When value and additional features merge (custom engraved titanium for example), that can be what sets apart some users from others.
 
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Random Dan

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Re: Lights should be expensive

It's easy to say that when you have enough disposable income to throw at a hobby, but not everybody has that luxury. $20-$30 can buy a really good light these days, and leave money for food/clothes/rent/whatever else you might need.

I do buy some expensive lights, because I can afford to and using them adds happiness to my daily experience, but I'm not gonna pretend that I need anything more than a Lumintop Tool or Convoy S2.
 
D

DayofReckoning

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Re: Lights should be expensive

What never ceases to amaze me is there are people will pay $800 for a smart phone, $2000 for a big screen TV, or $25,000 for a new car, yet will scoff at the notion of buying a flashlight that cost a fraction of what those items cost.

I think a lot of times it's just a simple case of "Sour Grapes" with the "Why is _____ so expensive?" or "My _______ is just as good for half the cost" type post's and threads.
 
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ChattanoogaPhil

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Re: Lights should be expensive

A quality LED light today can be considered a lifetime purchase.
Pick one that well fits your needs and be done with it. In the long run no matter what ya buy it'll end up being pennies per month. So... my recommendation is buy the right light for yourself instead of the cheapest light for yourself.

I've got quite a few lights... but I'm looking at a Surefire G2X Pro 320/15 lumen on my desk that I've had for three or four years. I paid about $50. It has a lifetime warranty. The G2X Pro is currently in the "Good Deals" section here new for $36 delivered.

My cable TV and internet is a $100/mo. My dog got sick and the vet bill was $300. I understand everyone has their own budget to consider, but I don't get all the agonizing over flashlights that are the price of taking the wife to dinner at Outback and will stay with you a lot longer. But if you're THAT guy... As Seen on TV Bell & Howell "Tac Light" are advertised $29 for two including fees. You'll save a whopping $6 over the Surefire G2X Pro above. Go run over em with a tank and report back.

Cheers.
 
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Chauncey Gardiner

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Re: Lights should be expensive

Quality combined with value equates to wise consumer.

A while back I was exiting a local grocery store when I was asked, "Do you want to buy some Girl Scout cookies?" Being aware of the good job the Scouts were doing at the time of this occurrence, I reached into my wallet and produced a $5 bill. I looked at one of the den mothers and said, "The cookies you sell are overpriced and your organization doesn't get to keep nearly enough of the money you raise. I don't want any cookies, but I do want to support what you're doing." I handed her the five and walked away. Words failed her.

On another occasion I noticed a van being slowly driven down the street with the side door fully opened. This was in front of my home. Two eight year olds jumped out and ran up to me asking if I wanted to buy some chocolate they were selling to raise money for their youth league. :rolleyes: < That's me thinking, Sure you are. I told them "No thank you." Which was immediately retorted with, "Why not, don't you want to support a good organization?" These kids were practiced and not a little bit shy. Professionals had entered the comfort of my domain.

[email protected]@King them in their eyes I said, "I work very hard for the money I earn. I want value and quality for it. The candy you're selling doesn't provide either." Still not deterred, one of them said, "Well we thought you'd want to support a good cause." I asked him, "Why do you expect me to work hard for your good cause when you're not willing to do the same? Instead of trying to get me to buy candy, why aren't you offering to weed my garden? That way I'd be getting some value for my money." They looked at each other, smiled and said, "We don't want to work." and then they ran back to the waiting van.

:rant:GET OFF MY LAWN! :laughing:

~ Chance
 
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Re: Lights should be expensive

It's easy to say that when you have enough disposable income to throw at a hobby, but not everybody has that luxury. $20-$30 can buy a really good light these days, and leave money for food/clothes/rent/whatever else you might need.
.

That is correct, you can get a really functional light for that amount. Buy some batteries on top of that and you are set.

The more expensive lights can be hard to quantify. You get more lumens, more features. But the big item is the LED. It has displaced the Edison light bulb much like the solid state drives (SSDs) have replaced spinning rust drives (HDD) or flat screens have replaced CRTs or bluray have replaced VHS tapes.

As long as you get solid state electronics, you are set. I don't know what it takes to break those things other than setting it on under a train on a rail.

You can get a used, like new (sometimes even new, with an Ebay promotion) Surefire G2x Pro for $30-35 every day and it's every bit as good as anything else out there. Maybe tougher, made of nitrolon and stuff. Well, it lacks heatsinking and potting, I am aware of that but has not found it to be an issue.
 
V

Vemice

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Re: Lights should be expensive

I do not use a light for work but rather sometimes at night getting around or in the garage.
I have a few Nitecore TIPS and a few others that I don't need but wanted (Acebeam UC15 - just a fun light).
Then I bought McGizmo Sapphire for no reason other than to appreciate it as functional artwork.
The TIPs do more than I will ever need.
The Gizmo has limited output and is nowhere as useful as the TIPs, but I just love it.
Let's face it, this is mostly a hobby and we tend to obsess at both ends of the spectrum.
 
markr6

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Re: Lights should be expensive

[email protected]@King them in their eyes I said, "I work very hard for the money I earn. I want value and quality for it. The candy you're selling doesn't provide either." Still not deterred, one of them said, "Well we thought you'd want to support a good cause." I asked him, "Why do you expect me to work hard for your good cause when you're not willing to do the same? Instead of trying to get me to buy candy, why aren't you offering to weed my garden? That way I'd be getting some value for my money." They looked at each other, smiled and said, "We don't want to work." and then they ran back to the waiting van.

Oh no! You just bought yourself a flaming bag of poop on the doorstep tonight :)
 
bykfixer

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Re: Lights should be expensive

I don't need a car that goes the speed limit in 2nd gear but it sure is fun to drive it. I suppose folks who own McGizmos, HDS etc feel the same way.

Now I don't have any fancy lights like that but have sunk a bunch of money into an incan flashlight like an ROP Maglite (1000+ lumen 2C model) or an nip big head 3D Bianchi B-Lite I scored on eBay then hot-wired it with rechargeables and a $16 Mag 7 cell lightbulb.
 
Chauncey Gardiner

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Re: Lights should be expensive

:hahaha:
Oh no! You just bought yourself a flaming bag of poop on the doorstep tonight :)

It's hard to beat a classic. :laughing: Thank you for the laugh.

~ Chance
 
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eh4

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Re: Lights should be expensive

Lights should be reliable.
 
seery

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Re: Lights should be expensive

I bought one of the first Surefire Beast II lights when they were released, and it took two trips back to SF to get it working right.

Our X65’s have worked flawlessly from day one.

$2,750.00 vs. $450.00

Not sure where this is going, it just popped to mind while reading this thread.
 
bykfixer

bykfixer

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Re: Lights should be expensive

Well when the Beast came out the technology of the time was archaic compared to 2018. Advances in predictive technology, CNC machining and production facilities allows for items to be developed a lot faster and made a lot cheaper. The cost of R&D is much less and time from start to finish is a lot shorter. Also less human involvement in the process takes place. Combine that with a cheaper labor force and yes, cost of a completed item is greatly reduced with likelyhood of problems greatly reduced.

To me the Maglite is an amazing story. Still made largely of US parts, assembled in a factory located in a state with choking costs due to whopping regulations and still as durable as those made long ago at prices pretty much the same as long ago.
Often cited as lagging, the Maglite is an instrument that has stuck by principles devised in the 1970's. Instead of attempting to compete with all things brighter and cheaper, Maglite has been on a slow path moving forward while still maintaining old fashioned value "assembled in the USA".
 
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Krumbbs1976

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It's definitely all about value.. I spent 270.00 on a Peak Night Patrol in SS about a year ago.. Im a security guard and work some days and some nights.. my flashlight has been kicked and dropped.. used to keep doors from closing.. and nutcracker.. I don't make a huge amount of money but in my humble opinion it's well worth it every single penny! And if some person comes up to me in the middle of the night and I can't use my words to get him to back off I'm going to use it to stamp in their forehead :) just till they stop!
 
M

marinemaster

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This issue is complex to talk about here but life in US is expensive. Is going where Europe has been for a long time like $250 pair of shoes.
Another example a stainless steel watch bracelet for a European Rolex is $2000 a stainless steel bracelet for a Seiko is $200. The Seiko is just as good, the other $1800 needs to cover the expensive life in Europe. Anything service related in US is expensive take medical insurance from $8000 to $12000 a year. You read that correctly, eight thousands to twelve thousands. As their lights are made in US or at least that is what they say, so prices go up.
 
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