LiIon VS LiPo mode ïMax B6

[daan_deurloo]

I tried the Lithium Ion charge mode on the B6 today on my Fake Sony LC18650 ( Which is actually also a Ultrafire LC18650 Blue ). It had 1080mah put in and using the Lipo it does put around 1120mah in.

Also i've got about 30~40mah more when charging to 4.30v tho. How much does this harm to the battery ?. It will probably make the cycle life go down pretty hard.

That faker is crap anyways. When i use 2amp discharge voltage, it will goto from 4,2v to 3,4v and will stay there for awhile.. Means that this battery is crap already.

Note: I'm not doing this to my Panasonic cells. I top them off when i used them for a while. No matter what the voltage is.

 

[m.pille.led]

Hi,
I have a IMAX B6AC charger too, awesome charger for cheap!
About the batteries I use Soshine 3100mah 18650 and Panasonic 3400mah. They are all protected cells

Now for exemple the Panasonic come in two variants, there is a 4,2v and a 4,3v variant.
In my opinion you don`t have to worry about 0,1v more or less.
It might have some diference on battery cycle-life, but the diference is very slight.

Another recomendation I give is if you need good batteries, spent a litle more Money in the beginning, it will pay off!
protected 2600-3100mah brand cells are available for around 5-8$ this days. The Panasonic 3400mah protected I buy for around 9$

Regards

 

[daan_deurloo]

I do have 6 2150~2250mah Panasonic CGR18650CG'S and they are 7 years old now ( Unprotected ) and they hold around 1700~1800mah.

I use a 12v 1.5a psu for the iMaX. I can use 2A charge and voltage is still 12,05v. The PSU is from a Seagate external hard drive.

I'm planning on Recharging/Descharging all the 6 Cells at once. Currently discharging the Fake 18650 and a Panasonic cell at once and it's fine. Doesn't get warm either. Voltage differance was 0.2v only.

Maybe i should make a 3S1P pack as a External Starting helper. 12.6v should do it tho.

I'd like to use NiMh batteries first as i don't know what happens if i just use 3~4s1p configuration for starting. Never had a lithium battery go pop.

I have a 8 new NiMh 1000mah cells. Planning on soldering a pack to about 12~13.2v Nominal Voltage.

Also LiFePO4 battery is not that expensive here. Cheaper then a Lithium ION.

This is the battery i use for my XML-T6 Ultrafire flashlight
http://www.deswah.com/professioneel/111-panasonic-cgr18650cg-2200mah-met-pcb.html
I have the version without PCB ofcourse 🙂 It's pretty noticeable when the light goes dim ( High/Medium/Low mode will not work anymore ).

 

[m.pille.led]

Hi,
I am the kind of guy who buys every electrical componente off Ebay and other china stores. Wich is not bad, as long as you know what you buy.
For exemple the batteries you linked to are 2200mah for 11€,
for the same Money you get 2pcs Samsung protected/unprotected 18650 3100mah off Ebay.

About the Imax charger, If searching for a better PSU, the Imax B6AC has a 5A 12v integrated PSU.
So if you get a 5A PSU all functions from the charger should work.
For exemple this one for 4,5€
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271937810048

You mentioned some battery packs, you use them in Dive torches?

 

[HKJ]

For exemple this one for 4,5€
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271937810048

The problem with these may be safety or lack of.
You do simply not know if they are made to be safe or not and a lot of stuff from China is not really safe*.

*This does not mean it will kill you, but it will maybe kill 1 in 100000 users, where equipment that has passed the US/EU safety tests is more like 1 in 100000000 or maybe even better.

 

[daan_deurloo]

Not gonna buy a to cheap psu for the iMax if i can charge at 2.5 amps with a 1.5a 12v psu. Voltage of the psu isn't dropping below 12v so it's good enough. I also found out when using 2.5a, it will not put the capacity in as it does with 1~1.3a. Since one of these cells still hold about 1700mah out of 2150mah minimum.

Haven't tested them all yet. Not planning to do so at all.

 

[KenSrf]

Now for exemple the Panasonic come in two variants, there is a 4,2v and a 4,3v variant.
In my opinion you don`t have to worry about 0,1v more or less.
It might have some diference on battery cycle-life, but the diference is very slight.

Each time you increase the charging voltage by 0.1V you cut the cycle life in half.

http://www.powerstream.com/lithium-ion-charge-voltage.htm
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

 

[daan_deurloo]

Update: Discharged a cell with 0.3a and recharged with 0.8a rate and i got 1923mah out of one cell during charging. Minimum rated is 2150mah. Good for a 7 year old cell and has 89,44% life left. They will probably be used once i get a 1000mw laser pointer. Dunno if they either use 16340 or 18650 cells. My greenie laser sucks and i'd like the 1000mw blue laser more. Burns everything i've seen. My classmate has one.

I believe that was a first discharge and charge with a imax b6 on that cell. I have others around that has more cycles done on the b6 and capacity dropped a bit to about 1750~1850mah. As expected for a 7 year old cell.

 

[m.pille.led]

Each time you increase the charging voltage by 0.1V you cut the cycle life in half.

That is disapointing! will start to be more carefull with my cells!
Reduction of lifetime by half is a big deal.

About the cheap china PSU, I know it is a litle risky, but I still go with that PSUs due to the price....
What could hapen? a Resistor or capacitator get blown from overheating or useage.
If that hapens and there is a short circuitry, the fuse will triger ( they have a ground lead, wich I always conect)
Cheers guys , stay safe!

 

[daan_deurloo]

Seagate External hard drive psu all the way! Can go upto 3.5A if i want to. Voltage is then about 11,89~11,91v. I had pop a 12v psu years ago and triggered the power switch downstairs, so i will not overuse this one again.

Also i have to tell that my extracted cells are getting less capacity in each time it's getting charged. I charged one from 3v to 4,2v and it exactly put in 1500mah ( A cell that got cycled about 15 times i think on the iMax. It should be a 2250mah cell. So it needs to get replaced if i was using that cell everyday. So if it needs to get replaced, i will look into a decent brand name cell like panasonic.

 

[Gauss163]

Each time you increase the charging voltage by 0.1V you cut the cycle life in half.

http://www.powerstream.com/lithium-ion-charge-voltage.htm
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

That is certainly not generally true. Precisely where did you find that claim?

 

[daan_deurloo]

From what i've heard is that the maximum cycles will go down, but not in half.

I do have a almost 2 year old GP Recyko aa battery and topped it off to 100% and then discharged at 1.5a down to 0.2v. It gave me 2087mah. 1.5a is a bit much for this battery on the iMax b6 as it will go from 1.4~1.45 to 0.68~0,70v and goes down once it's discharged.


Great battery and not so much cycles done on it.

One thing i don't like is that it will not stop charging once the batteries get warm in Series charging.
that's also why i don't charge nimh batteries in series during the night.

I did that series charging today and had a pack voltage of 5,88v during charging. 4 800mah cell *1000mah true capacity* and each cell should get 1,47v then.

I discharged them in the night to get them a bit balanced.

 

[KenSrf]

That is certainly not generally true. Precisely where did you find that claim?

In the two links you quoted in the reply..

And what is your source that "that is certainly not generally true"?

 

[Gauss163]

In the two links you quoted in the reply?

Please give a more precise citation, e.g. quote the text that you believe supports your claim.

 

[KenSrf]

Please give a more precise citation, e.g. quote the text that you believe supports your claim.

It would have taken you whole 10 seconds to perform a relevant search on the linked articles to find it..

"For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400–4,000 cycles."

Now where is the precise citation for your counter claim? I take it you don't actually have it since you just snipped and ignored part of my post where I requested it?

 

[Gauss163]

Battery University is very far from a reliable source of information, e.g. follow the links here. Much of the information there is based on random hearsay culled from claims on the net, i.e. without scientific basis. The claim you cite is an example of such. Such a claim cannot possibly be universally true since the actual lifetime variation will depend heavily on many parameters, e.g. the actual termination voltage employed, thermal conditions, chemistry, impedance, etc.

 

[KenSrf]

Battery University is very far from a reliable source of information, e.g. follow the links here. Much of the information there is based on random hearsay culled from claims on the net, i.e. without scientific basis.

Talk page on a wikipedia article that anyone can edit is not a very reliable source of information either, and perfectly fits the definition of a hearsay.

Battery university, from what I have seen and heard, is usually regarded as a good source of information. I think your opinion is the minority one.

The claim you cite is an example of such. Such a claim cannot possibly be universally true since the actual lifetime variation will depend heavily on many parameters, e.g. the actual termination voltage employed, thermal conditions, chemistry, impedance, etc.

It may very well be that this claim is not universally true. Do you have any reliable, scientific sources that show when it is and isn't?

I posted two sources, one of which found this to be true after doing an actual experiment and testing. Our exchange seems a bit one sided when I am the only one providing sources, while all you're doing is criticizing them.

 

[Gauss163]

I posted two sources, one of which found this to be true after doing an actual experiment and testing. Our exchange seems a bit one sided when I am the only one providing sources, while all you're doing is criticizing them.

The web is littered with "facts" composed by authors with no scientific credentials whatsoever. Linking to a logically unfounded claim does not lend any logical credibility to your claim.

 

[KenSrf]

The web is littered with "facts" composed by authors with no scientific credentials whatsoever. Linking to a logically unfounded claim does not lend any logical credibility to your claim.

What is your source that the claim is "logically unfounded"?

Do you have a reliable source that authors of those pages have no credentials, and that the information they provide is unreliable and full of errors?

You keep talking about science and credible sources, but the only source you provided to back up any of the claims you have made in this thread (and you've made plenty) is about as reliable as a random forum post.

 

[Gauss163]

That's not the way scientific methodology works. It is not my responsibility to refute your claims. Rather, it is your responsibility to back them up with hard science. Otherwise they have no more value than any other random claims on the web by self-professed "experts", e.g. there once was a (quite competent!) mathematician Alexander Abian who argued at length that blowing up the moon would solve many of our problems.