brightnorm
Flashaholic
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- Oct 13, 2001
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Look at THIS response to Surefire's price increase
- Thread starter brightnorm
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lightlover
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
Well, that's taking a stand for sure !
Not even a close-out sale !!
SureFire have dropped several dealers from their list recently, cancelling contracts because of bad Customer Service, etc.
Or for other reasons maybe ?
If they were previously Distributor-level for SureFire, buying very cheaply, but then reselling directly to the public at the dealer-level prices, I've no sympathy for or with them.
If I'm going to pay "excellent" (J/K ... ) prices for SureFires, I'd rather not make contribution to a Distributor's inordinate profits while only saving a few dollars myself.
It looks impressively uncompromising though.
lightlover
Well, that's taking a stand for sure !
Not even a close-out sale !!
SureFire have dropped several dealers from their list recently, cancelling contracts because of bad Customer Service, etc.
Or for other reasons maybe ?
If they were previously Distributor-level for SureFire, buying very cheaply, but then reselling directly to the public at the dealer-level prices, I've no sympathy for or with them.
If I'm going to pay "excellent" (J/K ... ) prices for SureFires, I'd rather not make contribution to a Distributor's inordinate profits while only saving a few dollars myself.
It looks impressively uncompromising though.
lightlover
papasan
Enlightened
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
*someone* is going to make some profit, why do you care that it's the distributor?...i'm sure surefire marks up there stuff like *crazy*...the latest mark-up was to pay for R&D costs fo these new lights...a bit odd if you ask me, the new lights should pay for themselves i say...i mean, if i have see the same light, even a $200 light, at two different places and everything else is the same why wouldn't i spend $10 or $20 less for it?...i just look at the price tag and their history of customer service, not speculate at their cost and mark-up...
*someone* is going to make some profit, why do you care that it's the distributor?...i'm sure surefire marks up there stuff like *crazy*...the latest mark-up was to pay for R&D costs fo these new lights...a bit odd if you ask me, the new lights should pay for themselves i say...i mean, if i have see the same light, even a $200 light, at two different places and everything else is the same why wouldn't i spend $10 or $20 less for it?...i just look at the price tag and their history of customer service, not speculate at their cost and mark-up...
DonL
Enlightened
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
My understanding is that there was a double-whammy, partly the distributor sales thing, but mostly bad customer service. Bad customer service. I've heard several references about them being worse than Botach when Botach was having a bad day, if you can believe such a thing.
Dunno about the profit thing. I think if I was saving $20 from a list price, I'd rather any profit go to a dealer whose profit margin is a bit less and could use the business, rather than someone who, IMO, is taking advantage of one less markup, and doesn't pass any additional savings on to their customer.
Of course, depending on the savings, there would be a point that ethics get tossed out the window...
My understanding is that there was a double-whammy, partly the distributor sales thing, but mostly bad customer service. Bad customer service. I've heard several references about them being worse than Botach when Botach was having a bad day, if you can believe such a thing.
Dunno about the profit thing. I think if I was saving $20 from a list price, I'd rather any profit go to a dealer whose profit margin is a bit less and could use the business, rather than someone who, IMO, is taking advantage of one less markup, and doesn't pass any additional savings on to their customer.
Of course, depending on the savings, there would be a point that ethics get tossed out the window...
bwcaw
Enlightened
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
SHEESH!
SHEESH!
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
The distributors (sisnce they get them cheaper), were selling the surefires to the public at barely over the dealer cost. Which means all of the smaller stores who distribute to the masses were getting cut right out of the picture. Look at it this way. Dist. buys a E2e for $55 and sells it to the public via a website for $70. The dist. makes $15 profit. The public is not their only customer, since the dealers also buy from the dist.
Now lets say that you are a dealer and you purchase an E2e for $65 form your dist. To make any sort of profit you must mark it up to $80 (a little under the MSRP of $85), BUT to make yourself competitive with your dist. (who is stabbing you in the back by pricing his lights so low), you have to only charge $70 for your light, which means that you only pull $5 profit. Since you dont sell in volume (because you are a dealer) you make jack $h!t. Since your dealer can beat your prices, pull in a pretty darn good profit, and sell in large volume, they will ultimately put you out of the SF market. Surefire depends on their dealers to market and sell most of their products to the masses of law enforcement individuals, as well as the general public, in several cities throughout the US. Surefire decided to protect their dealers by putting a low price limit, so the dist. could not undercut the dealers by very much at all. It makes it more of an even playing field.
Eric
The distributors (sisnce they get them cheaper), were selling the surefires to the public at barely over the dealer cost. Which means all of the smaller stores who distribute to the masses were getting cut right out of the picture. Look at it this way. Dist. buys a E2e for $55 and sells it to the public via a website for $70. The dist. makes $15 profit. The public is not their only customer, since the dealers also buy from the dist.
Now lets say that you are a dealer and you purchase an E2e for $65 form your dist. To make any sort of profit you must mark it up to $80 (a little under the MSRP of $85), BUT to make yourself competitive with your dist. (who is stabbing you in the back by pricing his lights so low), you have to only charge $70 for your light, which means that you only pull $5 profit. Since you dont sell in volume (because you are a dealer) you make jack $h!t. Since your dealer can beat your prices, pull in a pretty darn good profit, and sell in large volume, they will ultimately put you out of the SF market. Surefire depends on their dealers to market and sell most of their products to the masses of law enforcement individuals, as well as the general public, in several cities throughout the US. Surefire decided to protect their dealers by putting a low price limit, so the dist. could not undercut the dealers by very much at all. It makes it more of an even playing field.
Eric
geepondy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
That's what people say and I guess it's probably true but it would be nice if Surefire would verify that reasoning, although they don't have to as they're not a publicly held company. My question is, is the margin of profit/price between a distributor and a a dealer that great of a difference? For an example, the web site price of an M3 went up about $50 bucks or about 30 percent.
That's what people say and I guess it's probably true but it would be nice if Surefire would verify that reasoning, although they don't have to as they're not a publicly held company. My question is, is the margin of profit/price between a distributor and a a dealer that great of a difference? For an example, the web site price of an M3 went up about $50 bucks or about 30 percent.
Darell
Flashaholic
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
That's what people say and I guess it's probably true but it would be nice if Surefire would verify that reasoning,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly. The question has been asked and asked on the SF board, but there has been no official answer. Doesn't look like there ever will be one at this rate. You have to at least keep the zealots informed...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
That's what people say and I guess it's probably true but it would be nice if Surefire would verify that reasoning,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly. The question has been asked and asked on the SF board, but there has been no official answer. Doesn't look like there ever will be one at this rate. You have to at least keep the zealots informed...
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kogatana:
'Camo' finishes? What next, stars and stripes, or heaven forbid, gold, purple and pink. Isn't that a Maglite thing?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Scroll down this page until you see something purple.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kogatana:
'Camo' finishes? What next, stars and stripes, or heaven forbid, gold, purple and pink. Isn't that a Maglite thing?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Scroll down this page until you see something purple.
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
That's what people say and I guess it's probably true but it would be nice if Surefire would verify that reasoning, although they don't have to as they're not a publicly held company. My question is, is the margin of profit/price between a distributor and a a dealer that great of a difference? For an example, the web site price of an M3 went up about $50 bucks or about 30 percent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you speaking of the Surefire website price increase? I suspect that they raised their own prices on their website to help protect their dealers as well. They will sell more lights through their dealers than they could factory direct. They will not be making nearly the profit that the dealers make per light, but as long as they make their minimum mark-up, I dont think it matters to them. Thats they way you run a business, you decide on a set markup for a particular item when you sell to distributors, set a minimum price for them and the dealers, and no one cares how much profit they want to make from it, as long as they sell them. If one dealer prices their items too high, either the customer will go to another dealer which charges less, or they will pay it, because there are no other dealers in their area.
Eric
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
That's what people say and I guess it's probably true but it would be nice if Surefire would verify that reasoning, although they don't have to as they're not a publicly held company. My question is, is the margin of profit/price between a distributor and a a dealer that great of a difference? For an example, the web site price of an M3 went up about $50 bucks or about 30 percent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you speaking of the Surefire website price increase? I suspect that they raised their own prices on their website to help protect their dealers as well. They will sell more lights through their dealers than they could factory direct. They will not be making nearly the profit that the dealers make per light, but as long as they make their minimum mark-up, I dont think it matters to them. Thats they way you run a business, you decide on a set markup for a particular item when you sell to distributors, set a minimum price for them and the dealers, and no one cares how much profit they want to make from it, as long as they sell them. If one dealer prices their items too high, either the customer will go to another dealer which charges less, or they will pay it, because there are no other dealers in their area.
Eric
lightlover
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
That's what I meant KT.
It was just as Lightspeed2 says.
Some Distributors were buying from SF at the low price set for Distributors, who were then supposed to sell on to the actual Dealers at the Dealer price. But those same Distributors were also selling direct to the public, and were easily able to do so at a price that undermined their own Dealers.
Which made customers like us happy, but the Dealers obviously couldn't make enough to survive. Meantimes, the Distributors who were selling direct to the public were making two levels of profit, having a cake and eating it too. That's what annoyed me, papasan. Just greed.
It was a negative long term strategy. SF had to put a stop to that practice because it was eventually going to put the dealers out of business, and without them, SF couldn't survive. They need the SF --> Distributor --> Dealer --> customer network.
I'm not happy about paying more for my SureFires, but I recognise that R+D costs money, and that prices do rise. It has apparently been 3 years since SF last put their prices up.
The actual new prices, at MRSP, aren't quite as high as has been suggested. Some models have stayed at the same price, some have actually dropped in price. The "average" extra seems to be around 9%.
Which may be small comfort to people who saw those places where Distributors did sell direct to the public put up their prices overnight by large margins.
And then, the opportunity was taken to rid the system of many bad dealers, who didn't provide good SF-level Customer Service.
lightlover
That's what I meant KT.
It was just as Lightspeed2 says.
Some Distributors were buying from SF at the low price set for Distributors, who were then supposed to sell on to the actual Dealers at the Dealer price. But those same Distributors were also selling direct to the public, and were easily able to do so at a price that undermined their own Dealers.
Which made customers like us happy, but the Dealers obviously couldn't make enough to survive. Meantimes, the Distributors who were selling direct to the public were making two levels of profit, having a cake and eating it too. That's what annoyed me, papasan. Just greed.
It was a negative long term strategy. SF had to put a stop to that practice because it was eventually going to put the dealers out of business, and without them, SF couldn't survive. They need the SF --> Distributor --> Dealer --> customer network.
I'm not happy about paying more for my SureFires, but I recognise that R+D costs money, and that prices do rise. It has apparently been 3 years since SF last put their prices up.
The actual new prices, at MRSP, aren't quite as high as has been suggested. Some models have stayed at the same price, some have actually dropped in price. The "average" extra seems to be around 9%.
Which may be small comfort to people who saw those places where Distributors did sell direct to the public put up their prices overnight by large margins.
And then, the opportunity was taken to rid the system of many bad dealers, who didn't provide good SF-level Customer Service.
lightlover
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
And then, the opportunity was taken to rid the system of many bad dealers, who didn't provide good SF-level Customer Service.
lightlover<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pssssttt.....*nudge, nudge*.......Botach..............
Eric
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
And then, the opportunity was taken to rid the system of many bad dealers, who didn't provide good SF-level Customer Service.
lightlover<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pssssttt.....*nudge, nudge*.......Botach..............
Eric
B@rt
Flashaholic
Re: Look at THIS response to Surefire\'s price increase
