looking for a safe, noncomplicated, reliable 18650 charger...

[36stude]

greetings,

i think this post is a bit different than most other similar inquiries here, i specify this in the longer version below...

a short[-ish] version of my inquiry:

as in the title - i need a very reliable, safe 18650 charger [preferably 4 bay] which can optimally charge unprotected cells with flat/recessed top; particularly the [green] panasonic ncr18650ga batteries...
if possible it should be able to provide reasonable safety [e.g. high temp protection, etc] while still provide a full charge without extra steps of programming certain parameters... another words, to turn the device on, insert the batteries and press 1 or 2 options and that's it...
it'll be used by myself but also by a 90 y/o person who cannot be bothered with delving into any kind of programming yet needs to be a safe charger that can also provide a full charge without having to screw around with any menus, submenus, etc...
it would also be very desirable to have a simple option of charging the cells for long term storage...

i've just spent most of the night reading various forums/websites on such chargers' reviews [including cpf of course] and as soon as i thought i'd have my near perfect candidate for purchase i'd read a caveat that it either doesn't have the sufficient high temp protection, can't charge optimally in the 'dumb' mode, is not good with flat/recessed cell tops or something else that would result in either a potentially dangerous scenario or batteries that are barely charged, or not able to even charge that particular type of 18650...

lastly, the cost is no object...


here's the long version of my inquiry:

it's been a very long time since i last posted anything on cpf, in fact it's been so long i had to register a new account, but times change in technology and once again i find myself quite out of touch...

i recently purchased the newest 'zebralight sc600f iv plus' lights for myself and my 90 year old uncle, in order to update both of our most recently purchased sc600 lights from about 8 years ago...
the 18650 zebralights now specify to use very short, unprotected cells, they always recommended such and in the past even sold zebralight branded cells but i was able to still use shorter protected cells in their older sc600 models, it doesn't seem to be an option anymore without putting undue stress on the longer protected batteries...
accordingly, i purchased 5 of the green panasonic ncr18650ga cells for each of us, which are the recommended ones by zl and sold on their website...

when i purchased the first 18650 powered series of zebralights about 12 + years ago i also purchased a ibc pila twin charger for my uncle and myself along with several highly recommended protected cells [at that time those were strongly recommended over unprotected cells by most flashaholics]...
the pila and the cells served us very well over the years but his pila has recently expired and i now need to get him a similarly simple yet very reliable, safe and capable charger for exclusively unprotected cells...
i am also looking to get something better than my still going strong pila and hopefully with 4 bay charging...

about 4 years ago i additionally purchased a - then top - liitokala charger model to use exclusively with my smaller goalzero sherpa/100 w panels but i'd like something else which might allow for the newest, largest cells because i've been increasingly yearning for one or two of the newest hyper powerful lights which use multiple of those powerful cells...

however, the charger for my uncle needs not to be able to accomodate anything larger [or smaller for that matter] than those unprotected recessed top 18650 batteries... i bought him a big top model [back then] maha charger for aa/aaa batteries around 10+ ears ago and both of our maha chargers are still going strong so he only needs a dedicated 18650 charger now...

most recently, a few weeks back, i also purchased the often top recommended skyrc mc3000 charger because i figured that it might serve me well when i finally decide on which of a couple of hyper lights to buy, which use the largest newest cells, plus it'll update my old pila and liitokala chargers...
however, after spending a brief time with it after unboxing it, i've found myself completely over my head with its manual and available programming options and still haven't been able to use it because i'm an hopeless ignoramus when it comes to anything tech...
in the dumb mode, according to 1lumen review, it shortchanges the charging because of its time limit so one should only use it in the advanced mode to ensure proper charging but the advanced mode exceeds my capability for understanding such 'tech' level so it'll take me some time to understand at least the basics of such advanced programming/modes...

meanwhile, i need to find a much simpler charger for my uncle [or at least one that has a dumb mode which doesn't prevent the optimal charging] and probably the same for myself before i'll have time to spend with that mc3000 and hopefully eventually understand the basics of its advanced mode...

my uncle was as sharp as a tack about 30 years ago and he actually got me into computers and music composing on a computer back then, using the best composing software available at the time...i'm now about the same age he was back then and nowhere near as sharp as he was at my current age... however, years and illnesses of always advancing age take their toll and now my uncle needs something that requires little to no fidgeting with programming in order to safely and relialy charge the cells for his newest zl light...
he still loves the newest gadgets and small but powerful lights and i get a huge kick out of presenting him with such and watch his genuine joy when he tries out his newest little toy...

so, is there anything currently on the market that will tick all those specified requirements above?...
i've followed a few threads here and on blf where someone asks for a similar recommendation and afterwards i'm more confused and indecisive than ever, after a few recommendations, some chime in with serious caveats/shortcomings of each suggested chargers... eventually the thread goes o/t and into a discussion of what consists a best charger or something similar and i never seem to be able to determine which 18650 charger would fit all of such key requirements...


i'll be much obliged for solid informed recommendations...

 

[knucklegary]

Have you considered Xtar?
Here's their newest addition...
Thread 'XTAR VX4 Charger FAQ' https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/xtar-vx4-charger-faq.485504/

 

[orbital]

+

I'll second getting an XTAR charger, they are not high performance, but charges fine.

that said, I use my Folomov A4 mostly now, the input is 12V DC at 5A (use a 12V round DC to type C cable)
so it'll charge at 40'some Watts if I ask it to.

 

[36stude]

thanks for the reply knucklegary and orbital...

yes, the xtar vx4 seems to be among the top 3 or 4 chargers recommended and i'm certainly considering it, it's at the top of my potential buy list...
so is the xtar dragon and 3 more chargers...

i think i missed the review you've linked knucklegary as i've been mainly looking at threads which ask for 18650 recommendations so i'll definitely check it out...
i'm guessing this one is among the easy to use chargers which is a big plus...

if anyone knows the answers to the following please also chime in - does the xtar vx4 have any potential issues which would make it unsafe for unprotected batteries, will it accommodate the cells with recessed top and can it fully charge such batteries without having to delve into programing menus?...

 

[Monocrom]

Honestly, things have changed, gotten better as far as chargers go. If you want a good, safe, basic one.... Pretty much any of the ones currently on the market will do. (Still a good idea not to leave one charging up while you sleep.)

 

[36stude]

Honestly, things have changed, gotten better as far as chargers go. If you want a good, safe, basic one.... Pretty much any of the ones currently on the market will do. (Still a good idea not to leave one charging up while you sleep.)

yes, that's what it generally seems to me after my very recent search for one, however...

some are not a great choice for my specific purpose because based on the several reviews i've read after initially jutting down several potential choices , a couple of the frequently recommended ones won't even work, or barely work, with the recessed top cells, some might be more of a hazard than others and some will only charge the batteries partially unless one delves deeply into advanced programming options... the latter option, while eventually still workable for me if i'd devote some time and effort to become familiar with such options, won't work for my elderly uncle anymore...

i should perhaps restate my original post in this thread...

my first most important requirement is that the charger be as safe as possible... the last thing i'd want is to be, even indirectly, responsible for him inadvertently burning his house down... or worse...
the ideal solution would be to just stick to much safer aa/aaa rechargeable cells and stay away from the li-ion cells but true light performance really only begins with lights using these more powerful cells so i got him hooked on those more powerful yet still very small lights about a decade ago and he's pretty much aware of the potential risks when charging/storing these batteries...

the most important thing i cautioned him about when i first gifted him the 18650 light, batteries and the pila charger, was to never ever leave the charger unattended [or leave it in use while sleeping even if it's in the bedroom next to him] whenever using it and he always reassures me that he adheres to this, even now because i always mention this in passing when we yak over the phone [he lives in canada so we rarely meet in person anymore]...
in fact i might purchase and ship to him a compact abc type of a fire extinguisher to keep near the area he uses to charge his li-ion cells, just to have that extra peace of mind... being a long term cripple in a wheelchair and now mainly grounded in bed, i always have a small abc extinguisher within my arm's reach next to my bed so even if my charger/cells would experience some sort of a violent, spontaneous combustion when i charge my cells next to my bed i'm quite ready for such an emergency...

so, i will choose a charger that has the extra safety feature or two over others, even if the former's charging ability might be slightly inferior to others... within a reason of course because if a charger does a poor job of actually doing what its main purpose is, then there's no point in wasting money on such...


consequently then, my next important priority is that the charger must of course do a great job at actually charging the batteries and based on several reviews i've read over the past 48 hours or so, some of those chargers i've initially placed on my 'possible' list will most likely do a very poor job with optimally charging the cells or not at all, either due to their positive contacts being incompatible with cells that have recessed positive contact tops or just not designed to perform well in its simplest 'dumb' mode...

hence my, more of a specific, inquiry here...


before i decided to start this thread i've read several similar, more or less recent, threads here on cpf and a couple of other forums where a person posts a question such as 'what's the best 18650 charger' and then lists some more or less defined needs but after receiving some solid suggestions, a number of those are frequently - and justifiably i think - respectfully criticized by others in subsequent posts as they point out some crucial shortcomings inherent to some of those suggested chargers and many of those issues apply directly to what i prioritize in my current new charger search...


so i figured i'd post my own inquiry here but list very specific - and absolutely most important to me - priorities, the only 4 of them being that

1. the charger must be as safe as possible...
2. do at least a decent job of actually charging the 18650 cells of my choice...
3. do so with relative ease of use sans the need to delve deeper into programming options...
4. be fully compatible with this specific battery type [i.e. recessed top]...

perhaps i should've created my initial post with the inclusion of these 4 requirements at the very top and more clearly specified as i've just done immediately above...

other attributes such as long term reliability and some other also practical aspects are naturally also important but those first 4 priorities are what's absolutely crucial in this instance and i could not clearly discern such from other similar threads...

i'm hoping that folks who actually own and are well familiar with the very 18650 chargers which are commonly considered as the ones 'to buy' will be able and willing to steer me away and towards certain models based on that 'absolute must' 4 point requirements above...

damn, this post's now at about 1k words count...my apologies for being verbose in my posts - including this one - but, apart from my life long affliction of inability to be concise and quick in getting my point across [and i'm very suspicious with regard to grammarly and similar software's safety/privacy policy], i try to be as exhaustive as i can when making a post in order to explain my purpose for such... frequently, it has the opposite of my desired outcome so some might deem it more exhausting than exhaustive...

 

[orbital]

1. the charger must be as safe as possible...
2. do at least a decent job of actually charging the 18650 cells of my choice...
3. do so with relative ease of use sans the need to delve deeper into programming options...
4. be fully compatible with this specific battery type [i.e. recessed top]...

+

This charger is a yes to your answers,, https://www.batteryjunction.com/brands/shop-by-brand/xtar/xtar-vc4
after your 18650 is fully charged, remove it from the charger & that's it.

you don't have to stand over it charging
&
you don't just leave it in the charger for the weekend to 'really get 'er charged up'

btw: most bare cells are flattop,
I'd say 80% of all my batteries are flattop and I don't use any protected batteries.

 

[36stude]

+

This charger is a yes to your answers,, https://www.batteryjunction.com/brands/shop-by-brand/xtar/xtar-vc4
.....

you're most likely correct and although knucklegary has also linked a faq page to a similar xtar charger i still haven't fully gone through it...

so it seems that one of those 2 models will be my next buy for myself and my uncle... it's also priced very affordably although this wasn't much of a concern for me...

i'll put in some time to read about these 2 chargers as much as possible for the next couple of days and unless i'll find something of serious concern and both offer the same ease of use, i'll get the same 2 units which are slightly upscale...

much obliged to all 3 of you for taking the time to read my thread and the advice...

 

[knucklegary]

I've upgraded to VC4SL charger from VC4. Only because it accommodates protected length 21700 and 26500 cells.
Nothing wrong with VC4, it's a great charger. Plus prices have dropped since new models intro..

You can find price less if not needing QC3.0 adapter. However, note, this charger needs 3a input to function properly

XTAR VC4SL Battery Charger,Included QC3.0 Adapter Charge Liion and Ni-MH Battery at a time 3A Fast Charger, 4 Bay Rechargeable Battery Charger 1.2V Ni-MH Package Not Included Any Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F5L9G6W?tag=cpf0b6-20

 

[Jean-Luc Descarte]

Anything on HKJ's site that he gives positive final thoughts on is safe. Goes for both batteries and chargers.

 

[orbital]

I've upgraded to VC4SL charger from VC4. Only because it accommodates protected length 21700 and 26500 cells.
Nothing wrong with VC4, it's a great charger. Plus prices have dropped since new models intro..

You can find price less if not needing QC3.0 adapter. However, note, this charger needs 3a input to function properly

XTAR VC4SL Battery Charger,Included QC3.0 Adapter Charge Liion and Ni-MH Battery at a time 3A Fast Charger, 4 Bay Rechargeable Battery Charger 1.2V Ni-MH Package Not Included Any Battery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F5L9G6W?tag=cpf0b6-20

+

true

I tried to keep it as basic as possible w/ the VC4 suggestion
...after a while, everyone gets a more powerful charger anyway..

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Hello 36stude!
Your thread has been viewed about a hundred times (looks like).

Consider buying an XTAR from a reliable source (not eBay) and research fire blankets.

A lot of us like illumn, battery junction…

There are products that get used by radio controlled vehicle enthusiasts where some kind of container is designed to charge lithium chemistry in.

Flat top batteries can sometimes be cantankerous to make a good contact with the charger tabs; it can take a certain positioning.

Our household has an XTAR that can charge (or discharge) to a long-term storage voltage (you probably know) and XTAR has asked us if we, CPF members value a charger that can terminate a charge to 80% or so.

Some said yes but guessing XTAR does not think the extra cost for that feature will be appealing enough for a profitable item. Maybe they will offer it in the future.

 

[36stude]

i have to try and get some sleep soon [a chronic nightowl with acute insomnia] so i'll reply to those additional posts sometime tonight/tomorrow morning... thank you all for additional input...

but before i go i just want to address knucklegary's latest post above and here's where my permanently dumb mode rears its ugly head...

according to the vc4sl's amazon page description you've linked, it can charge at 3a, 2a, 1a, 0.5a and 0.25a... unless i'm wrong, my understanding has been that 18650 cells should be charged slowly at less than 2a for optimum effect and life... is that correct?...
so this charger should be gtg in this department...

however, i don't understand the part where you've stated that it needs 3a INPUT to function correctly... most household receptacles put out at least 15 amp so why do i need to be concerned with it requiring just 3 amps?...

i have a feeling that i've just asked the dumbest question ever on cpf or am completely misunderstanding some basic tech info but better to look stupid than deal with some difficult issue after the purchase...

 

[knucklegary]

i have to try and get some sleep soon [a chronic nightowl with acute insomnia] so i'll reply to those additional posts sometime tonight/tomorrow morning... thank you all for additional input...

but before i go i just want to address knucklegary's latest post above and here's where my permanently dumb mode rears its ugly head...

according to the vc4sl's amazon page description you've linked, it can charge at 3a, 2a, 1a, 0.5a and 0.25a... unless i'm wrong, my understanding has been that 18650 cells should be charged slowly at less than 2a for optimum effect and life... is that correct?...
so this charger should be gtg in this department...

however, i don't understand the part where you've stated that it needs 3a INPUT to function correctly... most household receptacles put out at least 15 amp so why do i need to be concerned with it requiring just 3 amps?...

i have a feeling that i've just asked the dumbest question ever on cpf or am completely misunderstanding some basic tech info but better to look stupid than deal with some difficult issue after the purchase...

Not dumb, because I can't fully answer either. I do know when I used my 2a adapter the charger malfunctioned during charge/recharge test function. Possibly something internal not getting enough juice, idk?

I always let the charger decide what amp to charge a specific cell. And always wait to see where it's set. As the cell reaches full capacity the amps will decrease, as they should.

As far as Amazon seller Allmaybedirect. I purchased a few chargers from this Amz seller as well Ilumn Supply. Both are legitimate Xtar dealer/distributors. I would feel confident buying from any of the distributors (Battery Junction) posted here.

You can also ask @XTAR Light. directly. Not sure if flagging them here works, chiming-in to answer your questions more thoroughly and intelligent than I can.

 

[bluflaam777]

Different USB plugs will have different amperage outputs. I have one that only supplies 5v @ .5 amp. I have several that supply 5v @ 1 amp. (Most of mine fall into this category)
However, I have one that supplies 5v @ 2.4 amps, one with 5v @ 3amps or 9v @ 2amps. (it would depend on what I plugged into it).

And yes, batteries like to be charged slowly. Extreme temps and fast charge/discharge are the bane of batteries.
Charging to ~80-85% puts less stress on the battery as well as long term storage at around ~40-50%.

I have the xstar VC2SL (newly acquired) and seems to work wonderfully for what I'm doing.
It will charge up to 4.2v -2amps x1, 1amp x2, 0.5amp x2. This is why it needs a good supply outlet of at least 2amps, with 3amps or more being better.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

That 120 Volt 15 Amp alternating current (AC) receptacle on the wall supplies a converter (block like thing plugged into the receptacle) that makes direct current (DC) ~5 Volts (or more) to supply power to the charger. The charger itself can accept less amperes from the converter but can't get more Amps than the converter is rated.

Hope this helps. Know that your question will very likely help someone else looking into this stuff sometime in the future.

 

[36stude]

thank you all for taking the time to read my thread and sharing your input, i find every one of these posts above to be a solid and helpful advice... i was hoping to find the best advice on cpf and did not get disappointed...
i'll now attempt to reply to each post which was made after i've had the chance yesterday to do so...

 

[36stude]

Not dumb, because I can't fully answer either. I do know when I used my 2a adapter the charger malfunctioned during charge/recharge test function. Possibly something internal not getting enough juice, idk?..................................

you know, i had a major brain fart yesterday because i forgot that many, if not most, chargers require a separate power supply...
i was reading your post [including your mention of the 3a input] with the erroneous mindset that the charger - like most common household appliances - has an internal regulated power supply that's already well adjusted to, and perfectly compatible with, the household amperage output and thus i couldn't understand why i should care about that xtar's 3a input requirement...
duh, hehe...

ok, so i've made my choice, soon after you guys suggested both xtar models, on the upscaled model, the vc4sl one you've linked to the amazon page...
i'll try to find it also on amazon canada site [for my uncle who lives in canada] or on a reliable online canadian dealer's site, because shipping to canada from here sucks and costs much more than having it shipped in country directly from ca based online dealers...

before i click the check out option for myself and search canadian sites for the same i just want to definitely confirm - as i understand it, the xtar charger and the included power supply from the direct amazon link you've included is the proper charger/3a supply combo which will work well together, correct?...

 

[36stude]

+

true

I tried to keep it as basic as possible w/ the VC4 suggestion
...after a while, everyone gets a more powerful charger anyway..

i always find it reassuring to get a confirmation of someone's suggestion by another experienced person and i appreciate the time you've taken to go through my thread and share your opinion, thanks man...

i was hoping to avoid people at a similar level of experience/knowledge regarding charger technology to mine from chiming in with their suggestions which might or might not be solid advice... a lot of newbs to the scene are enthusiastic and often overly eager to post on help/advice seeking threads with what they've just acquired because they're convinced that they've just purchased the very best device [light, charger, cell, etc] out there and instead it creates a cluttered thread with a bunch of useless posts to go through... they mean well but often it's just poor advice and/or not applicable to one's specific requirements...

i'm very glad this has not been the case here on mine... everyone who took the time to actually read through my verbose attempts at a specific advice inquiry, seems to be quite experienced in the subject and included helpful advice...
cpf rules...

 

[36stude]

Hello 36stude!
Your thread has been viewed about a hundred times (looks like).........

hey kitrobaskin, thank you for your input as well...

yep, i've used battery junction on several occasions to purchase batteries and flashlights, along with another couple of websites widely recommended by cpf users, at least recommended back when i actively used the cpf on regular basis...
i think ilumn was already one of those back then and i probably used it as well unless i'm thinking of another online source with a similar url address...
i try to avoid ebay and even amazon for batteries, chargers, lights whenever a more dedicated online retailer has what i'm shopping for in stock... most often i use the 3 or 4 vendors i've used in the past based on recommendations i've found on cpf... although freakin' amazon makes it so damn easy and quick to use...

you state that your xtar charger does indeed have the option to charge batteries for storage...
that is definitely a function i'd love to have... do you know if the xtar vc4sl has this function as an easily selectable option?...
i think i've mentioned this option in my initial post in this thread and it's certainly a very desirable one if it's included as an automated option... i charge all my 18650 cells to 100% via my old pila ibc charger but i'm well aware that it's not the best thing for a long life of my batteries, especially if the charged ones are not utilized frequently and on regular basis...

now, your suggestion of a fire blanket and some enclosed charging container used by rc users got me concerned a bit...

in your opinion, is an abc type compact extinguisher not as effective to have on hand in the - albeit unlikely - scenario where a li-ion violent combustion from a single or multiple 18650 cells might spontaneously occur, as your alternative suggestions?...

i have a compact [i think it's 2.5 lbs charge] kidde brand of abc type extinguisher always within my arm's reach in my bedroom [actually another one in my kitchen as well] as i'm a smoker and also quite aware of li-ion potential dangers, especially when a charger or a faulty cell might malfunction... despite being a highly functioning quadriplegic i'm able to still use and utilize this type of an extinguisher rather quickly if required to do so...
a fire blanket would likely be somewhat more difficult to use for me...

i'm an avid, daily youtube 'watcher' [despite absolutely hating its policies and censorship but that's a whole different subject hehe] and recently watched a very nasty case captured on a security camera of a dude in some asian country [i think it was in singapore] literally getting 'cooked' to a gruesome death by a spontaneous violent combustion of an e-bike battery he was caring while in an elevator...
it made me ponder the fact that the multiple li-ion cells many flashlight users, including myself, keep collectively in storage in a single location could potentially result in a similar scenario if just one of those cells [or a charger while in use] should experience a serious malfunction...

i reassessed my current li-ion storage and charging habits as a result of that footage...
i'm not very familiar with the subject of li-ion and similar battery technology combustion process and how to best extinguish such...
would a fire blanket be a much more effective alternative to an abc type of extinguisher?...

not trying to start an o/t topic on this thread and should most likely just do a cpf search to delve deeper into this topic instead but i thought my extinguisher was a pretty sound policy for that type of a scenario...