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LunaSol 20 PD Modifications

heckboy

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
247
on the EX10 the piston has a great "hold range" due to the spring in the head pill working together with the one on the piston, in the L1 maintaining high is not as comfortable as mantaining low, however its security comes from the fact that its at the end of the travel. but its still uncomfortable.

Is the low level on the LS20 like the one i described on the EX10?


The LS20 has a contact referred to as the "Kilroy" that provides the low power setting. The Kilroy is a cantilevered piece of wire that acts as a spring giving about .02" travel between low level actuation and high level actuation on my light. I could see how the Kilroy could be bent slightly to yield a little more or less hold range (in terms of travel) in the low level setting.

Regards,
HB
 

LightKnife

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Messages
74
What i did on my PD was just cut 1 coil of spring. I think a new spring is also another solution. But after a while the spring just become softer so if you decide to cut don't over do it.
 

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
For me, the main advantage to cutting just the top "dead" loop from the spring would be to prevent it snapping under itself with an unpleasant click that ruins the lovely smooth action of the PD (YMWV). I think I will try cutting off the top loop on my LS20 spring. I doubt just doing that will reduce the force much, if at all, so that's to my liking, and if it makes the turning of the head feel smoother due to the sharp end of the spring not catching all along the circular route on the bottom of the battery, so much the better. In fact, I will make sure to bend the new top end of the spring slightly downward so that it does not dig into the battery contact surface.
 

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
Daniel_sk and HB,

Would you mind if I steal that cool x-ray image for my LunaSol 20 review? If you don't mind, I will upload it to my server and will NOT hotlink it. It's just a really cool image and would be neat to add to my review.
 

heckboy

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
247
Daniel_sk and HB,

Would you mind if I steal that cool x-ray image for my LunaSol 20 review? If you don't mind, I will upload it to my server and will NOT hotlink it. It's just a really cool image and would be neat to add to my review.

I don't mind you using the x-ray. I think that Daniel_sk did more work than me.

With respect to the spring, if you do reduce the number of active coils you will increase k, the spring rate. It's probably hard to discern the difference in k without actually measuring the change with a gauge because the difference in preload from shortening the spring will be much more apparent. In other words, it'll still feel easier overall.

You could also consider putting a pop-rivet in the last coil of the spring if the end is snagging on the battery and you can feel it. The rivet would provide a nice smooth contact surface.

Regards,
HB
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,291
Location
Maui
heckboy,
I received the lot of springs I ordered and put one in my LunaSol 20 yesterday. It has a nice smooth action. I can't for certain say that it is easier that a shortened original spring or not. It would require setting up some measuring system that I don't have. If people do shorten the original spring, as js mentioned, the new tail should be bent downward so that there is no sharp hook wanting to gouge the battery.

I think your spring from Lee is a good viable alternative with some advantages over the original. I also think it would be a good idea for me to use the Lee spring for a good period of time to see how it changes, if it changes over time and use. It has been my experience that the original spring softens some after use and if this is the case with the Lee spring, I want to make sure it doesn't get so soft as to have any issue with returning the piston to off. So far, I like what I see and I like what I feel.

Thank you for your contribution to the community here with your endeavors and tips! :thumbsup:

js,

Like Precisionworks, I too look forward to reading your review and appreciate your insight and efforts!! Is your LunaSol 20 review going to be available in hard cover? :nana:

Precisionworks,

Thanks for the info on the Krytox. I ordered some 200GL grease and will be using it in trial soon. It is my hopes that it might serve as an alternative to the 201/101 blend I have been using. When I received the grease, I recognized the packaging as the same source I ordered from before; at least I believe this to be the case. I lost the vendor information somehow in the move over here and it is good to have a known source!!! Thanks again.

My comments here remind me that no man is an island, even if he lives on one and may have little interaction with others in his daily work. There is always room for improvement and there is no call to ever stop learning as long as there is light.
 

js

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Messages
5,793
Location
Upstate New York
HB,

Indeed! I do understand how springs work, and what the k value is. I was thinking, after looking at the picture of the LS20 spring (stock one), that the very top coil, or about 180 degrees of it, is indeed a "dead" coil, not involved in the compressive force. But, perhaps I am wrong? No way to tell, I guess. Which is why I will not be modding my spring until I have an exact replacement in hand.

I went back to the L1 today, specifically with an eye towards activation force, and I've got to say that I find my LS20 and PD-S easier to activate and to hold on high despite the greater force requried. I think this is because I find the grip involved to give me a lot more leverage over the grip involved in the L1 and A2. Once those muscles come up to speed, they just love to do their job--or that's been my experience.

Anyway, thanks for letting me use the pic, guys! It's a neat picture and an unusual one. Very cool.

As for my review, believe you me, I am looking forward to being able to post the finished product. It's been an ongoing project for months now. I finished with the beamshots, finally. I wanted to do something different than the usual to try to show what the eye really sees. For the low modes, this wasn't a problem, but for the high modes, this is a problem. Conventional wisdom is to lock the f-stop and shutter speed and ISO at the best compromise, and let the camera just "tell the truth". The brighter lights will be overexposed to some degree, and dimmer lights underexposed, but this is an actual reporting of the real differences in brightness of the lights. Or so the reasoning goes. But, it's never seemed faithful to me. It's not what I see when I'm out using the lights. It's not the truth, although it is certainly objective and outside of any sort of personal bias that might infect a review.

But, to my thinking, if you don't trust a reviewer to be objective and to tell the truth to the best of his or her ability, then why bother reading one of his or her reviews? :shrug: So, I took a different approach for my main set of comparison beamshots (or at least the highs). Well, backing up, I should say that I didn't use a white wall. I used a set of shelves against the wall at the top of our stairway landing, which is just chock full of my wife's craft supplies and craft products--stuff she's made and/or embellished with chiogami paper. It's very colorful and vibrant and busy. And right smack in the middle of that is the ColorChecker color chart (the mini version). Anway, where was I . . . ah yes, so even for the low beams, it's not a conventional sort of beamshot. It's not about the light itself but more about what you can see in the light and how well you can see it. It's pretty interesting to see, really. The low beam from the LS20 is so much more faithful than the A2, really, and it shows. Also, you can clearly see how the low beam from the LS20 just illuminates the entire wall, showing almost every detail--great information for the eye--whereas the lows from the PD-S and L1 are more just a spot of light, with a lot more darkness surrounding it.

So, but, yeah, the high beams. So the thing is that if you set the exposure for the hotspot, then the outer areas are so underexposed that you actually lose information there--they get dimmed out. And if you set the exposure for the outer areas, then the center of the hotspot gets washed out, and you lose information there. So I took two shots of the PD-S and L1 and A2 high beams. One with the hotspot properly exposed, and one with the outer areas properly exposed. I then opened the more exposed ones (with the outer areas properly exposed) in Photoshop, and then opened the shot with the hotspot properly exposed, and added it as a layer on top of the first shot, and then set the opacity of the top layer to 50 percent. Thus the hotspot beneath shines through, increasing its brightness, but there is the extra information there due to the properly exposed top layer, and the otuter areas which were too dark benefit from the background layer shining through with some information there. This is a way to increase the dynamic range of photos--or so I have read--and it worked great to create a beamshot that actually was close to what my eyes saw. It's not perfect, of course, but it's closer.

I also had the lights suspended behind and above the camera, shining straight on to the ColorChecker, while the camera was below and in front of the light, looking at a shallow angle upwards at the colorchecker chart. This is another trick I use to get a more even light to fall across the cameras field of view, and also helped to create a set of beamshots that (to my perception) more faithfully protrays my own experience of the lights I am trying to compare against each other.

I also took some more traditional longer-throw shots from my second story window down onto the grass, to emphasize the greater throwing ability of the PD-S and L1, vs. the LS20 and A2. And I will be doing a set of closeup shots of the ColorChecker chart for CRI comparison purposes.

Plus, I took a bunch of shots of my hand holding the LS20 to show just how freaking amazing that light is, ergonomically. How three fingers fit just so on the clip. How no matter where the clip ends up in any of the grips, it doesn't interfere and almost always improves the grip, how the light can be handled in any of five grips, and so on. And how this is in sharp contrast to the clips on the L1 and A2. How there is really only one grip on those lights.

I'm trying to really do justice to the LS20--how amazing it is--and honestly, I don't think I will be able to really convey it, show it, but I'm giving it my best shot.

The graveyard shifts haven't been kind to my verbal functioning, so the writing of the review is going a lot slower than I had hoped. But it's coming along. It's getting there.

But, don't expect too much! It's sure to disappoint under the weight of too much expectation, I would guess! I'll do my best, but that may not be good enough, I fear. LOL!
 

RocketTomato

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
475
Wow, a bunch of folks sound like they want to try that spring

Yes, just in case you missed it, on page 2 (post #56) of this thread there is a link to a group buy going on in the marketplace. We are up to 27 people so far ... :)
 

Saranic

Newly Enlightened
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
178
Hehe, I did miss that...I needed 6 for myself and was just as cheap to buy 10 as it was to buy 6. and on top of that I get to give 4 people free springs out of the kindness of my heart that is 4 sizes to small
 

brucec

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
683
Location
New York
HB,
You can cut off the final "dead" circle from the battery spring and then if need be, stretch the spring taller. This will yield a lower activation force requirement, compared to "stock". On the PD, the spring is the battery contact spring and its force is required to return you to off. Consequently you can't necessarily get it as soft as you might like were the spring only providing the function of switching and not other duties in addition. :shrug:

Sorry, but when everyone is referring to the "dead" circle, is this the small or big end of the spring?
 

heckboy

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
247
I've continued along with optimizing my Lunasol 20 PD experience...

Yesterday I test fitted my lock out PD button, made a couple of modifications today and put the button to the test this evening. I am very happy with the function of the button. I designed the button so that it fits into the light without modifying the light and without using adhesives. It's a mechanical fit inside the light body. I did this so that the button is removable and allows the light to return to the stock configuration.

It passed the walking the dog test tonight, I like the feel and function of the button. In combination with the lighter battery spring the PD actuation is quite easy and positive. The lock out feature works perfectly and requires about 1/2 turn of the bezel.

I'm picturing that I'll add three tritium slots around the circumference of the button. I'm also going to make a change so that I can add an insert to the end of the button to dress things up ever so slightly. I'm also going to minimize the thickness of the button and perhaps add some slight contour to it's tactile surface.

Here are a couple of digipix showing the prototype version made from Aluminum.

Later,
HB


DSC07420.JPG


DSC07421.JPG
 
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