M61 219b 4000k vs M61N SST-20 4000k beamshots request

Megalamuffin

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Would anyone happen to have both of these for a side by side comparison? If so which do you prefer and why?
 
caelyx

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Yes, I've got the M61 219b 4000k from illumn, and an M61NL SST-20. I'll take some beamshots tonight and post them in a follow-up.

They're both great -- you can't go wrong with either.

To my eyes, I somewhat prefer the 219b version. Unscientifically, it seems to skew a bit more pink where the SST-20 seems to skew a bit yellower; and colours seem to pop a bit more where the SST-20 feels more like a true neutral. A bit like the difference between a photo right out of a camera (SST-20) vs one that's had a little post-processing (219b). But, as I said, very marginal difference: they're both great.
 
caelyx

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Okay - here's three beamshots, as requested. In the SST-20 flavour, I only had the M61NL, so used a M61L 219b so they'd be at the same power level. In each photo, the ML61L 219b is on the left and the ML61NL SST-20 is on the right.

Hope that helps!

IMG 1009

IMG 1017

IMG 1011
 
kerneldrop

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There’s more to just tint when comparing these two emitters. If you do want to compare tint then you must know that SST-4000K has several color bins, with FA4 being recognized as the best. FA3 is right there with it. Certain color bins on the SST have more green than others. There's also a 219B R9050 and a 219B R9080....and you won't know which one you have unless you buy from a trusted source. The tints are different.

The die sizes are different, which makes one more “throwy” or “floody”, current handling abilities are different, output is different, and efficiencies different.

One will better emphasize reds, one will better emphasize greens. Their R values are different.

Then after all that you pick the 219b, run it high and notice that the tint shifts when you get above 1.5 amps. Also As the temp changes the tint will change (this can be found in the charts on the dies datasheet Nichia has).

Also the 219b sold by Andy Zhu are not the same 219b sold by Aliexpress/Convoy/Simon/kaidomain, and etc. That's where the "tint lotto" comes into play. Each reel of LEDs will be different in terms of its tint. The tint on emitters in the same real are almost always different, too.

The real sleeper LED is the 351.

I’m not discouraging chasing tints…that’s part of the fun. Check out the data sheets and find the color measurements to really get an accurate tint comparison on the two.
 
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muichimon

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IMG 3761
IMG 3766
The Malkoff M61 219B is on the left and the Malkoff M61N SST20 is on the right, both at 4000K.
The SST20 seems a little brighter, but the 219B looks more natural.
When compared side by side, SST20 looks yellowish, but on its own, SST20 is also neutral white.
After looking at M61 SST20 5700K, both look Warm White.
 
Megalamuffin

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Thank you caelyx and muichimon, much appreciated. The 219b looks really good.

My m61n looks great on its own but loses by just a little next to a 219b 4500k. I was thinking of buying an m361n but the 219b version may be a good choice instead.
 
D

Duster1671

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I have several versions of the M61 with 219b 4000K (M61, M61L, and M361), as well as two samples of the MDC LMH with SST-20 4000K.

Basically what's been explained so far matches my experience. The 219b drop-ins are a little less bright than the SST-20 heads, but the tint is more pink than green. They're otherwise nearly identical.

I put minus green filters behind the windows on the SST-20 MDC heads and now they're nearly indistinguishable from the 219b drop-ins. Same beam pattern, same tint, same brightness.

Here's a comparison:
f/8 1/320
ISO 1600
WB 5000K
RhWM8GV Imgur Copy
 
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kerneldrop

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I live in an area where it's green all year.
The SST-20 is more ideal for my environment if I'm looking for an outside emitter.
The 351 enhances green, too, so it's one of my favorites.
I like them all...I have several P60 dropins with different emitters and colors.
Right now the 519a dedomed 5000K is my favorite.

I posted this before...here is a blanket that I use to illustrate and compare different emitters.
One is not necessarily better than the other...it's really what colors do you want to enhance.
Beam shots on a wall is nice and fun, but they don't really show the CRI working.

Taken with a camera manual settings turning all the auto stuff off.
51907391197_35cb4c4ab2_o.jpg
 
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D

Duster1671

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Here are a couple of measurements from an SST-20 (MDC LMH) and a 219b (M61):

SST 20


The SST-20 is a little weaker in red and about the same in green, but we're looking at a pretty negligible difference in color rendering overall. I wouldn't choose one over the other for any functional reason.

I like the look of the 219b with its negative duv compared to the positive duv of the SST-20, but that's just my taste.
 
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kerneldrop

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@Duster1671 - what color meter do you use?
 
Megalamuffin

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I have several versions of the M61 with 219b 4000K (M61, M61L, and M361), as well as two samples of the MDC LMH with SST-20 4000K.

Basically what's been explained so far matches my experience. The 219b drop-ins are a little less bright than the SST-20 heads, but the tint is more pink than green. They're otherwise nearly identical.

I put minus green filters behind the windows on the SST-20 MDC heads and now they're nearly indistinguishable from the 219b drop-ins. Same beam pattern, same tint, same brightness.

Here's a comparison:
f/8 1/320
ISO 1600
WB 5000K
View attachment 26801

Thank you for the comparison. What is this minus green filter?
 
D

Duster1671

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@kerneldrop - I don't recall the make/model, but it's a calibrated sphere that a friend has access to.

@Megalamuffin - the minus green filter is a thin plastic film that's tinted pink, meant for filtering light in a professional/studio setting. It attenuates green wavelengths, with modest reduction in overall light output. They come in different strengths.

You can buy small pieces from a fellow named Boaz on BLF. Search for "Boaz minus green" and you'll find his WTS thread.
 
NutSAK

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For those of you with both drop-ins, is the SST-20 beam as ring-y as the Nichia in the 16.5 and VME heads? I realize I can go with the 22.3 head to eliminate the rings with the MDx, but I'm wanting to run one in a VME head. If it's as ring-y as the Nichia is, I'll just stick with my XP-G2 instead.
 
ledbetter

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Nichia doesn’t do well in 16mm heads, and in my opinion isn’t great in the 22 either. Sold my drop ins and mdc heads. Sst20 is good in either one and comparable to xpg2 but with better color. No rings! And no pink.
 
D

Duster1671

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Which heads are you all referring to as 16mm and 22mm?

I have a couple of 219b M61 drop-ins that have a ring in the spill in the VME head but totally clean, perfect beam in a 6P, C2, etc.
 
ledbetter

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Never put 219b in surefire but in mdx it wasn’t great to my eyes and rings were definitely apparent in vme head and in the mdc 219b I had. I think with the sst20 neutral or warm there’s no benefit to 219b unlikes you like pink or rosy light.
 
NutSAK

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Nichia doesn’t do well in 16mm heads, and in my opinion isn’t great in the 22 either. Sold my drop ins and mdc heads. Sst20 is good in either one and comparable to xpg2 but with better color. No rings! And no pink.
Excellent! Thanks for the quick response. I couldn't agree with you more, well, except I like the Nichia tint just fine...

I only use the Nichia dropins in 6P/6P clone heads. They're beautiful in those.

I carry a MDC/VME M61NL XP-G2 with 14500 a lot. I'm looking forward to a new SST-20 M61NL in there.
 
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