Mag Mod Advice.....

[mrartillery]

Ive been doing alot of looking into the Osram 64633 bulb and seen a couple builds i was interested in, im looking to either use a 4D or 5D mag, still undecided.

My question is should i use 4 IMR 26650's or 5 of the A123's or 5 of the LiFepo4 cells? The voltage on the 4 IMRs is 16.8 at full charge, which according to Lux's thread what is needed to drive this like it needs to be. Im just wondering how long it should be expected to run? runtime is not a issue for me as long as its bright as hell!

Anybody using either of these setups? which should work the best?

oh, and more thing i forgot to add, Ive seen the Lion and liFepo4 battery chagers in varying voltages, but what is the best way to charge 2 or more of these batteries at one time?

 

[Conte]

I just built one of these actually, it's quite kick ***.

I've tried it using both 4xIMR26500 in a 3D, and and 5xA123 in a 6D.

Not sure I could tell a difference. In fact, both setups sagged to about 15+ volts under load.

IMR26650's will probably sag a bit less.

I would recommend going with the IMR's as they will be easier to charge, and they have a higher capacity then the A123's.

Rumtime from A123's or IMR26500 would be about 10 - 15 mins.

If I remember correctly, the IMR26650's are 4000mah ? And the 633 is about 11 amps ?

4/11 = 0.3636 . . . That's about 36% of an hour. About 20 mins.


THIS THREAD might offer you some ideas on how to charge them.
Note that the magnets don't work on A123 cells.

 

[mrartillery]

oh cool, glad to see someone else done this build. But let me see that im getting this straight, you are running 4 IMR cells in a 3D mag? excuse my ignorance but wouldnt they be too long? How did you fit all of them in there? post me some pictures if you dont mind please sir.

And also thanks for the link about the charging, very helpful! but i have a question here as well, i was thinking of charging 2 batteries at a time that should be sufficent, i have 2 cell cradles for charging but i am a little confused over which charger to buy. I was looking at buying a smart charger, and this may be a dumb question but here goes, if i charge 2 batteries in the cradle at the same time do i need to buy a 3.7v charger or a 7.4v charger? just a little confused by this
Thanks, all help is appreciated

PS; charger like this is what im speaking of http://www.batteryspace.com/smartch...eablebatterypackstandardfemaletamiyaplug.aspx

 

[Conte]

Notice the Model Numbers of the IMR cells I'm using.

You are talking about using 26650, I am using smaller 26500 cells.
4x50mm cells fit nicely snug in a 3D with an easy tail cap mod.

You HAVE to mod the tail cap of a 644 build anyway, the amperage is too much for the stock spring. I just cut a hard piece of foam to shape, and wrapp a piece of 14gauge solid copper wire around it. 14g is rated for 15amps. I do 2 wrapps for good measure, I run the light, the wrapps dont' even think of getting warm.

I could get some pics later. I was thinking of writing up a tutorial for the design eventually. I just need to thoroughly test it first.


As for the charger. I'd need more detail about your cradles.

If you can wire them in parallel, you'll get better charge consistency between cells, and that charger you linked me to is perfect, just it will be a tad slower. To charge 2x26650 IMR cells in parallel, I would get the step up 6amp charger. The each cell gets 3amps at a safe less then 1C rate.

If you cradles are in series, then you need to go 7.4v charger.
The charge consistency is not as good. The charger will cut off at 8.4 volts total, meanwhile, one cell could be batting 4volts and the other overcharged to 4.4v.

Also, the 7.4v chargers on that site seem to be lame as they are limited to 1.5v, it'll take a longer time to charge. 2.6 hours, compared to 1.3 hours with the 6 amp.

 

[mrartillery]

Sorry the 26650 was a typo, i meant 26500. Anyway back to the charger, i have 2 el cheapo plastic holders like radio shack sells, each one holds one cell, this is what i was meaning should i wire them together and use a 3.7v charger or 7.4v charger? sorry i was kind of vague the first go around

also, did you have to put a sleeve in the 3D mag to keep it from rattling? ive seen several guys use 1" pvc pipe

 

[Conte]

Oh ok, Then yeah, 4x500's fit perfect in a 3D mag.

The 26500's and the A123's have the same Ah capacity. 2.3Ah, or 2300mAh.
The Big difference is being size, 4x50mm vs. 5x65mm.
You save alot fo room with the 50mm IMR's and it can add the the Awe factor.

A Sleeve, well, you don't NEED one for it to work, but yeah, its a pretty standard addition. I've heard of the pipe trick too. Haven't done it just myself, I just rig sleeves suing paper towel tubes and electrical tape, with papertowel folded up and wrapped in between as wadding. Works great.

Oh, you have single cradles. Then yeah, wire them up in Parallel, using some of the techniques you've seen on my thread, using some heavier gauge wire, and hit them with the 3 amp 3.7v charger.

The IMRs in para could likely handle a 6amp fast charge, IF you charge them 2 at a time. They max out at 5 amps. 2 cells would get 3 amps each.
But, if you ever want to charge just one cell, and it's likely to happen, The 3amp charger is the way to go, for THOSE batteries.

I would look into getting a higher end hobby charger like the one on my Thread. Mine is an Imax b6. Heck you can get it for about $50 shipped off ebay with a power supply. And once you figure out how to use it, you can charger almost any battery on it. The IMRs, the A123's, Normal Li-Ion, Li-Po, NiCD/NiMH with restore and maintenance options, Lead Acid (car battery). Great Investment.

Any other questions feel free.

 

[mrartillery]

ok thanks alot, i think you've answered all my questions for now anyway lol. but if you would still please post me some pics of your light if you dont mind and the tail cap too. Im also going with a AW incan driver for the build, are you using this or something else, just curious?:thinking:

 

[Conte]

The AW Incan Driver is great. That is what I am currently using. It drops right in and works.
And you can stick almost any bi pin bulb in it.

When you want a light with a more reasonable runtime. Just change the bulb.
Drop a little 12v 10-20 watter in there with the same battery config and you're good to go. In the 10 watt bulb range, the ID goes from the output of a stock 3D, to a Good 6v Lantern, to a Magcharger with the 3 modes.

I'm anxious to try Jimmy's Regulator. It has an adjustable output so, with the same set of batteries, you could drop just about any Hotwire bulb in there.
It's not a drop in tho, you get a raw circuit board that you have mod into an existing Mag Switch.

I could upload some pics later tonight I think.

 

[Conte]

I have to admit, I'm second guessing my information.

I look at Lux's charts, then then crunch numbers as far as what these cells we've discussed SHOULD deliver and they dont' add up.

5xA123 is the better route to a 633 bulb. But as I said, I've tried both, and haven't noticed much a difference in output. I use the IMR cells with my 633 all the time. Yet, the IMR config, is suppose to match the 623.

I have yet to acquire a 623 bulb to test that build, Hence why I haven't written an article on it yet. Need more input.

Theoretically, according to Lux's data, a 100watt 623 running off 4xIMR will outperform a 633 in the same setup. But if you can get the voltage of the 633 up to over 16 volts, thats when it really starts to shine. Last time I tested a 5XA123, I got .5 volts more then at the pins then I did with the IMRs.

I'm going to do some more testing.

But hey, it's still pretty kick *** with 4xIMR.

 

[ANDREAS FERRARI]

The voltage on the 4 IMRs is 16.8 at full charge.....

Keep in mind that with voltage sag the batteries will quickly drop below 16v and you lose the advantage of overdriving.

But if you can get the voltage of the 633 up to over 16 volts, thats when it really starts to shine.

I am currently running a '633 with 5xIMR's(over 20v)in a 4D by using AlanB's regulated driver.I had Alan set the voltage at 16.5v.

If your really serious about building a '633 this is the way to gf course there's a long waiting list but good things are worth waiting for.

I don't currently have any outdoor beam shots but here's a picture of my light....

BTW mrartillery-I like your attitude......."runtime is not a issue for me as long as its bright as hell!" I think that should be your signature.

Let 99% of the people around here worry about runtime this or battery capacity that.Some of us should only care about how bright our lights are regardless of any other concerns!!!

 

[mrartillery]

Andreas, thanks i may make that my signature, that is pretty cool i thought lol. But anyway, Conte you were talking about the 64623, i hadnt really looked into the bulb too much until u just mentioned it, and after looking at Luxs' chart i think your right it would be a better setup with 4 IMR cells!

But I guess theoretically i could buy both bulbs and try them both out to see which one i like best since they both will work with the IMR setup. :twothumbs

And, Andreas, you were talking about the 4D setup with the 5 IMR's, granted that is cool with the regulated driver, i think ive changed my mind about what size light i want, since i already have a Mag138 in 4D i think i want to go with another 3D, essentially should add to the shock and awe factor with a smaller light.

 

[Conte]

I was doing some tests last night, had a hard time getting the 5xA123 to put out much more voltage under load then 4xIMRs with an average charge.

I'm going to need to run the cells down a bit, then properly synchronize them for a more comprehensive test.

 

[mrartillery]

Yeah that should be interesting, I'd like to see the results

 

[mrartillery]

I guess what I would like to see if you could, is how long it would take for 4 fresh IMR 26500's right off the charger to dip below the 16v mark under load from the 623.

Should be a interesting tests, I don't think anyone has done it yet, if so I couldn't find it.

 

[Conte]

Not long really.

The 623 consumes in the same current range. A 4xIMR set almost immediately hit 15.5v as soon as you turn it on. But then, that's about the optimum working range for the 623 OD anyway. And, if I've gotten to know their behavior, I'm lead to believe their voltage will continue to drop unit they hit their working range of about 3.5 - 3.7 volt a cell, at which point they will level off.

 

[mrartillery]

Well, either way it should make for a rather cool light, we'll see if it can out do my mag138 I think ill dive head first into a mag458 next!

 

[Conte]

From the look of the 138 specs, it's reminding my of how my 100 watt bulb compares to the 633.

I don't any of those specified Osram bulb other then the 633, so I just use what I can find. I couldn't find any G6 bi pin bulbs locally hotter then 75watts, so I butchered and automotive 100w H3 bulb.
It's little pins end up fitting in a g4 socket. It was pretty bright, but not at the 633, and using the 633 as a reference, the 623 should also be brighter then the H3.

The 458, whoa, never noticed that bulb before. A 90 watt that takes up to 21v of overdrive ? Damn. That will be tricky to set up. 5 IMR's I think. With a KIU socket and a high current switch mod, as you could not use an AW Incan driver. That bulb will be pushing well over 200 watts at peak. The AWIC is rated for 150. 6xA123 might poof it at 22.2v.

 

[mrartillery]

yea the 458 is bad ***! i ordered a quad bored 4d from fivemega with a 16aa holder. im gonna use 16 titanium 1800 aa cells, which will be a nominal 19.2v, theyll handle 10amps, fivemega claims 8500 lumens at 8 min runtime with this setup! i cant wait! it should be awesome:twothumbs

 

[Conte]

Well geeze, I would of just used 5 IMR's. But then, that's they easy way for me, cause I have most everything else, except the right High Temp socket Switch. KIU's kit alone won't do it, you need to beef up the switch used.

I noticed you ordered a KIU kit. Let me know how that goes. I haven't heard from him in a while. I tend to email sellers first to make sure they are active before throwing money at them.

 

[mrartillery]

Yea hopefully he'll send them, I noticed that others have sent money and received there product within the past month or so, so I guess we'll have to wait and see. So you don't think the stock switch with KIU kit will hold up to the 458?

I know "technically" youre not suppose to apply much more than 7 amps to these switches, but what do you think it hurt running 10 amps through it? will it melt? contacts burn? I mean i dont know, ive never put much more than 7 through one. But also this light isnt going to be used much, kind of a show off light, just use ever now and then for sh*ts and giggles if you know what i mean, so if i dont have to spend a great deal of money using some other form of switch that would be great.

Anybody had any experience running 10 amps in a modded mag switch? results please, if you do!