Makita 18V LXT batteries....

Gauss163

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Re: Makita "Refreshing" charger.

[...] There are a total of five available from three sellers on fleebay. They offer the device at a 300% markup over the price I see at amazon. Are they asking ridiculous prices because they are the first to have a new item? Seems like it. You can see the auction "revision summary" and the oldest date I see there is July 10, 2018, so it's been out in the wild at least that long [...]

Some eBay sellers appear to use automated software that adjusts their pricing against competitors - including Amazon, e.g. when Amazon prices drop/rise so too will the eBay prices. But often this doesn't kick in right away for new products.

You can track prices and find historical price charts for Amazon products on camelcamelcamel.com I don't know of anything that works for both eBay and Amazon. Anyone?
 

delus

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Re: Makita "Refreshing" charger.

Looking at the website provided by Gauss163 (Thanks), it seems the item first appeared on amazon in March 2014. Starting at about $160, it has usually been over $200, and is currently at it's highest price ever. It looks like one lucky guy got one for $40.85. Mine was $91.71 which was a little higher than the price I had seen early that morning.

https://camelcamelcamel.com/Makita-193681-8-Refreshing-Adapter/product/B0007ZKG0W?context=search

I wonder exactly how many units they have sold in that time, and why I have never heard of it. In any case, I knew I was saving that free trial of "Prime" for a reason, will it arrive saturday?

Here, the ADP03 is shown along with another charger, and some computer cables.
https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/...0196/lot-ea92c573-f191-4dfb-8e92-a70c00fff499
One ebay seller has the six photos of the item from all sides. You can see on the back, what looks like a cover over the port. That's what i saw through the service center door. A charger with the adapter attached, and a battery on top of that. It was connected to a computer. Is there an app for that?
 
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Gauss163

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Re: Makita "Refreshing" charger.

^^^ Those price drops from over $200 to under $40 are typically done by automated software. If you register a price alert on camel^3 then they'll send you an email when the price drops into your desired range. If there's no rush and it's not a high-demand item you can often get it at large discount. I do that on eBay and usually get such low-demand items for 5 to 10 times less than street price. On eBay you can use their "Favorite Searches" to get email alerts.
 

delus

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Re: Makita "Refreshing" charger.

Some things i found in my continuing investigation:

At the Makita-UK link below you will see a picture of the Makita 194918-6 Battery Checker System. Apparently the ADP03 Refresher is one part of that system, shown on the lower left. MakitaUSA lists that part number 194918-6 as a completely different item.
http://www.makitauk.com/accessories/batteries/adaptors/194918-6-battery-checker.html

  • For service and Workshop use.
  • Makstar Battery Checker detects the number of charges and diagnoses the condition of the Ni-MH/Li-ion batteries. This equipment reads the history of the battery from the built-in CPU, finds how the operator treated the battery and gives the right advice to maximize the life of the battery.
  • It can also be used for simple-checking conventional Makita batteries, using the adapter which is included with the battery checker.
So it's the battery CHECKER that reads the battery's chip and connects to a PC, and the REFRESHER is a separate item that does the charging.
By "conventional" do they mean older 18V batteries without the star? Or does it mean a different adapter (ADP01 or ADP02?) for the NiMH packs?
The big question is: Can it reset the chip inside packs that have been bricked by other chargers? I don't think that the refresher can do that. Probably only the checker can do that.


A french listing has the longest list of ADP03 compatible chargers.
Chargeurs compatibles: DC18RA, DC18RC, DC18SD, DC18SE, DC24WA, DC24SC

The ADP03 has been listed as an "Optional Accessory" in the user manuals of some Makita battery chargers, since at least June 2014.
"When used in conjunction with charging adapter ADP03 this charger offers also the possibility of charging Ni-MH slide on batteries of 9.6V to 24V batteries"

While the refresher has been part of the checker system since March 2010, I have seen no evidence of the refresher being offered for sale as a separate item before June 2018.
 
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delus

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Re: Makita "Refreshing" charger.

Well, the refresher was delivered a few minutes before noon. (On a Sunday!)
First I did a refresh charge on a relatively new, known good battery. It took almost six hours to finish. At the end I got the three lights on the lower panel that indicate "Yes, this is a relatively new battery with at least 80 percent of it's stated capacity remaining." Excellent!
Next, I tried to revive all four of my dead battery packs. No-Go.
I seriously doubt the full "Battery Checker System" can revive them either. In retrospect, the slim hope I held that these dead packs could be revived, was foolish. If it was possible to do, we would have stories of people going into service centers with dead packs and coming out with revived packs. It does not happen. Once they are dead, they are dead.
Still, the refreshing adapter is a good investment for me, as I still have another seventeen packs to refresh, it should take a week or more! I got the chainsaw deal with the double-charger and four 5.0 batteries, so I'll be back up to 22 good packs. And no end in sight.

Would a full formal review of the refreshing adapter be appreciated and appropriate at a flashlight forum? I tried to review a light a few years ago and it turned out not-so-good. Since then I have been itching to redeem myself with some better information.
 

nl635

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Hi guys,

I have one makita 1830B li-ion battery, which is gonna die very soon(it has 3y of everyday use now, and has very small capacity...), but charge chip in battery is still unlocked

Is it possible to change just cells? Will be this original circuit board working with them?


thanks
 

delus

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nl635, Makita 18V lithium battery packs are not designed to be servicable. It's nearly impossible to get one apart and then back together. Take a look at this video from a veteran tool repair? man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG2KHJILDzo And that's the older design that's easier to get into.
With three years of daily charges, you got your money's worth out of your pack, that's a thousand charges. It's capacity is probably severely diminished. When it completely dies it will most likely die suddenly, meaning you'll suddenly not be able to work. It's best if you get your new one before you need it. I recommend staying with genuine Makita. I see two genuine 1830's for $89. But you can get 1840, 1850 or even 1860 which will give you more work between charges. Most locations offer a pre-holiday Makita sale right now, $25 off any order over $100 but batteries (by themselves) may or may not be eligible.

Looking around... I did see something new! Makita now offers a 1830 pack that is advertised to work at -3 Fahrenheit! No doubt uses the same chemistry that Milwaukee uses in their packs.


Also, I did a review of the Makita ADP03 Refreshing Adapter, here it is. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?453112-Makita-ADP03-Refreshing-Adapter
AFAIK it's the only review anywhere.
What's the verdict? Probably pretty good for old NiMH packs, but almost completely useless for lithium BL-18XX packs.
 
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fpdragon

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Hello, I read through this thread 2 times and I still don't get it how these batteries are working.

Here is what I know:

Makita batteries are 5s2p (5 cells in series)

Connectors:
2 very big -> + and - (18V)
1 medium -> temperature sensor
yellow 7 pin connector -> ??? id? resistor? balance leads?

I do know that there are battery packs that have no balance circuit included. That's maybe ok as long as they get balance charged.
But there are also aftermarket packs that definitely have no possibility to balance cells since not all cell potentials are soldered with the circuit board. What?!


My plan is to use two 18V battery packs in series (10s) and for this purpose I want to balance all cells of both packs. The question is, can I access each cell from the outside of the packs or do I have to modify the packs with an additional 6pin/4pin connector? First, I was expecting that the yellow 7pin connector is made for balancing but on my aftermarket pack these pins have definitely no connection to the other cell points. Maybe this is just because they are crap.
I have a 6.5A quick charger and also had a big surprise. Maybe it is just charging all cells in series or it charges each cell balanced. I don't know but I just noticed that the charger has only metal connections on Pack minus, TH and the yellow 7 pin but NO PACK PLUS connection! So maybe this charger is balance charging since it does not have a + connection? Or the + connection is somewhere on the yellow connector too? Or the TH pin is used and conducts to battery + 18V just over a temperature switch in series?
In theory I would expect and need the following voltages:
0V/- … Pack –
3.6V/Cell1+ … maybe yellow connector?
7.2V/Cell2+ … maybe yellow connector?
10.8V/Cell3+ … maybe yellow connector?
14.4V/Cell4+ … maybe yellow connector?
18V/+/Cell5+ … maybe yellow connector? / Pack +
Is there a pinout of the yellow connector somewhere? Can I balance the pack with the connector?


I found the following site:
http://makita18vmod.blogspot.com/2013/07/aftermarket-charger.html
where the blogger repurposed the yellow connector for using it as balance leads only. This means that after his hack the battery is not compatible with common Makita chargers any more. And still I don't get it that this yellow connector should be just used for this silly battery id and this useless fail counter interface. I can't believe that Makita had money to design this but forgot of some basic balance leads.
I also think that it is very risky to charge 5s2p Lion packs with 6.5A without balancing. The risk of overcharging a cell is very high.
Hope someone can help.
 

sbj

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I also have a couple of 18V packs. They really don't have any balancer connections!
I attached a standard 5s XT balancer connector to one pack. Primarily to be able to monitor the cells individually. This connector was already quite annoying on the outside of the battery.
That went well for a few years. There was no evidence of imbalance. Now, of all things, recently broke a pair of cells inside this pack.
I haven't gotten around to replacing the defective cells yet.

I also think it's a shame that Makita doesn't provide for balancing.:confused:
However, I have found that the cells are only fully charged up to approx. 4.05V with the original charger.
Firstly, this is good for the service life because it can be stored better. Second, there is some room for slight imbalances.

The yellow connector is primarily connected to a small circuit board in the battery that communicates with the charger.
 
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