Malkoff M60 & M30 Runtimes,etc

thermal guy

thermal guy

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Five mega no spacer or nothing great stuff:D
 
M

Mikellen

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I'm using a M30W with a Surefie 6P, 1 cell extender, and 2 AA NIMH batteries.
I'm considering on purchasing an Ultrafire WF 139 charger, and a protected AW 17670 battery. This would be my first time using rechargeable batteries.

Is there a considerable (noticeable) difference in brightness between using a 17670 battery compared to 2 NIMH AA batteries? If there is a quite noticeable difference of increased brightness with a 17670, then for me this would warrant the purchase of the rechargeable lithium battery set up. If it's only a marginal difference then I would have to reconsider on going with the 17670 battery.

Thanks in advance for any advise.
 
Yoda4561

Yoda4561

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Is there a considerable (noticeable) difference in brightness between using a 17670 battery compared to 2 NIMH AA batteries?
Thanks in advance for any advise.

From what I understand, it would be similar to the difference between an M60W(17670) and an M60WL(2xNIMH).
 
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Bullzeyebill

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The difference is approximately 220 lumens with 17670 vs 130-140 lumens with two NiMh's.

Bill
 
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Mikellen

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That's quite a difference. I think that will warrant the investment of purchasing a charger and a 17670 lithium rechargeable battery.

Thank you.
 
F

flashy bazook

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That's quite a difference. I think that will warrant the investment of purchasing a charger and a 17670 lithium rechargeable battery.

Thank you.

An alternative might also be using 3xNiMH AA's which should get the high lumen output out of the M-30. From pics the 3xAA is not much longer than the 2x18650 (or 4x123) battery tubes. I use the 2x18650 quite happily, it is very useable even with one hand.
 
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Mikellen

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I have a one cell extender that I use on the stock Surefire 6P for operating the M30W with 2 NIMH AA batteries. Is there an extender that is available that will enable me to use the stock 6P body with 3 NIMH AA batteries?
 
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Bullzeyebill

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I have a one cell extender that I use on the stock Surefire 6P for operating the M30W with 2 NIMH AA batteries. Is there an extender that is available that will enable me to use the stock 6P body with 3 NIMH AA batteries?

Yes, the 6P + A19 + A14 equals exactly three AA's. Or a 9P + A14.

Bill
 
M

Mikellen

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I have a Solarforce extender that enables me to use the 6P with 2 NIMH batteries. So which would I add to the Solarforce extender, the A19 or A14 extender? (I'm thinking A14 but not sure).

Are these Surefire extenders?

Thanks.
 
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Bullzeyebill

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I have a Solarforce extender that enables me to use the 6P with 2 NIMH batteries. So which would I add to the Solarforce extender, the A19 or A14 extender? (I'm thinking A14 but not sure).

Are these Surefire extenders?

Thanks.

Use the A14 with the Solarfoce extender. The Solarfoce extender is essentially the same as the A19. the A14 is the Surefire extender to convert the 6P into a rechargeable 6R. It happens to be 1 1/2 the length of the A19 which is AA size or 17500 size. Google Surefire A14 in regular google and dealers will pop up.

Bill
 
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Mikellen

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Bullzeyebill, thanks for the information.
 
Kestrel

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And now for something completely different:

M60 with a single AW _protected_ 17500 (it's the closest thing I currently have to the 17670, the behavior of which I am most interested in at the moment with regards to unregulated behavior in an M60):
~200 to ~140 lumens for hour one.
~140 to ~80 lumens for hour two.
~80 lumens to ~20 lumens for hour three.
(lumen figures are unfortunately guestimates, based on my other various configurations in my integrating bathroom)
So far, 4 hours and counting, down to maybe 10 lumens and still the protection circuit hasn't triggered. I hope this isn't abnormal behavior for a protected cell. Finally got bored, turned off the light so I could go to bed.

Compare this to the _M30_ on a 17500, with a calculated runtime of 60 minutes @ 240 lumens (calculating off of a tested runtime of 1:20 min with a 17670).

I'm nearly to the point of paying the shipping for someone to send their 17670 along with 2xRCR123's to BigWaffles for his runtime graphs, as I'm dying to see graphs for the two of these superimposed, along with 2x123 primaries on the M60. I am hoping that the output is close to full for nearly as long as the entire regulated run off of 2xRCR123. Although I really like protected LiIon cells, I very much dislike going from full output to nothing, and I am really beginning to think that this is a viable alternative.
 
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Bullzeyebill

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Kestrel, good work with your integrating bathroom. Mine works good too. The use of an 18650 really helps the M30, also how many amps a particular M30 LED pulls from the cell, as the vf seems to play an important factor. Primary cells are the ticket for important work with a flashlight and you need the dimming so cells can be changed out. Use of Li Io'n is always ok for casual use of a light around the house, or where you can depend on a backup.

Bill
 
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etc

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I think M* modules like Li-Ion more than NiMH or Alkalines. I get ~200-220 lumens on 3xAA NiMH cells used with M30 but get more with M60 on Li-Ion cells.

Lithium primaries of course rule over everything except cost-effectiveness-wise.
 
Kestrel

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Primary cells are the ticket for important work with a flashlight and you need the dimming so cells can be changed out. Use of Li Io'n is always ok for casual use of a light around the house, or where you can depend on a backup.
Hi Bill,

So I can blame you and SgtLED for getting me in this whole Malkoff:broke: thing, right?;)

What you're saying is right, but I'm now convinced there is a third, intermediate option between the two: Running an M60 on a single protected rechargeable lithium ion to get unregulated behavior, simulating the dependable decline of a Lithium primary cell. This way, you get _hours_ of warning that you are running low on power prior to pc cutoff, rather than the abrupt shutoff from protection circuits immediately after a full-power output run with two cells.

One protection circuit is more reliable than having two (i.e. twice the chance of failure), but primaries can fail too, and again, double the chance there. Full disclosure: I have already encountered a protection circuit failure in a LiIon cell (possibly shipping damage), but have never had a failure in a lithium primary cell. (knock on wood) So your point is well taken and I fully agree, my backup lights all have primary 123's rather than rechargeable LiIons.

I know avoiding the M60 regulation is sort of like going backwards, but you get initial high outputs (a great thing), but you also get a reliable decline near the end of cell life (also a good thing), instead of abrupt pc shutoff after a full power run, and you even keep cell protection at the very (dim) end. Pretty fun stuff, really.
 
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bullfrog

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Kind of random but I did a runtime test today on my:

M60L and

Two AW IMR 18650s (1600mAh each).

I got 4 hours and 46 minutes before I noticed dimming.

Just thought I'd share :D
 
Kestrel

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Kind of random but I did a runtime test today on my:

M60L and

Two AW IMR 18650s (1600mAh each).

I got 4 hours and 46 minutes before I noticed dimming.

Just thought I'd share :D
That's cool, no protection circuit, no suprise abrupt cutoff.:tinfoil:
 
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Bullzeyebill

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Kestrel I am sort of agreeing with you. A nice low vf LED, using a buck circuit, will work ok with one Lithium Ion cell, for awhile, and there is no reason not to use that format for casual use, and yes you would get a slowly dimming light, not bad in itself. Maybe we put too much stock in perfect regulation for our uses. Save the primary cells for that good regulation and gradual drop in output when regulation drops off. Use those primary cells for critical uses of our flashlight.

I think that we also take too much stock in super bright lights running at full bore, drawing high mA's from our cells. Most of my lights have some form of variable output, and I notice that i use them well below high mode. The Malkoff LL, and L's have enough light for most of our purposes, and we get that longer runtime too, which is easy on our batteries. the M30 is perfect with two AA NiMh's, lower output, and cells that aren't Lithium this or that.
 

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