Malkoff Quad; 6D 5D 4D ?

[Drywolf]

After months of monitoring the Malkoff site, I was able to get the Quad drop-in this last evening. I do not own a maglite larger than the 3D, so I was wondering if anyone has tried more than one mag with this drop-in? I'm leaning towards the 6D, but I would like some feedback on which one is the best fit and why.
Thanx


:thumbsup:

 

[Gene43]

If you plan on using alkalines go with a 6D. If you use a 4 or 5D light you need to use NIMH for full output.

Thanks, Gene

 

[Cowley]

I have only tried it on a 6D and it works great, but I want a smaller light. I'm going to try two of the KD Li-ion D cells in a 2 cell configuration. There was a post somewhere about this setup but I could not find it.

 

[AvidHiker]

Congrats on scoring a Quad Drywolf, and welcome to CPF.

I went with the 6D because, as Gene just said, it gives you the option of using alkalines. It also has the advantage of having a significant mass of aluminum which will most effectively sink the heat generated by the Quad - which can be significant when running over 30 minutes or so (see my graphs in my beamshots thread in case you missed it - that is at room temperature without a human hand holding it, which would presumably help remove some heat as well). In a 6D running over an hour I guarantee you don't have to worry about the light becoming uncomfortably hot in your hand, but I suspect even a 4D would be pretty good as well (can't say for sure). The 6D can be a bit cumbersome depending on how you're using the light, so a 4 or 5D might be more appropriate there as well - but I like the intimidation factor of the 6D even though most people say that a 4D is more useful as a baton should you be unfortunate enough to have an occasion to use it in that way (depends on your physical strength of course).

In many cases I have mine in a 2D with a Li-ion pack from Kaidomain, love that form but it will have heat issues after 30 minutes or so. Makes an amazingly portable searchlight with suprising runtime.

 

[AvidHiker]

I have only tried it on a 6D and it works great, but I want a smaller light. I'm going to try two of the KD Li-ion D cells in a 2 cell configuration. There was a post somewhere about this setup but I could not find it.

I would recommend the 2D pack, the cells have been matched to optimize performance and safety. Here's the link to marketplace thread tells you everything you need to know about using and charging the pack:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=172542

Oh, just in case, my beamshots are here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=192658
and I describe my experience with the 2D Li-ion pack towards the end

 

[toadman]

Don't have the Malkoff, but I have the Electrolumens Monsterthrow IV in a
3D Maglite. When I switched the 3D's for 4 C's (pvc adapter & reversed spring) it made an enormous difference in perceived brightness.

Russell

 

[Gunner12]

You should be able to fit 4 C batteries in your 3D. That might work.

I hope you like the Drop-in!

 

[2xTrinity]

Don't have the Malkoff, but I have the Electrolumens Monsterthrow IV in a
3D Maglite. When I switched the 3D's for 4 C's (pvc adapter & reversed spring) it made an enormous difference in perceived brightness.

Russell

4 cells will stay in regulation longer as I believe the Malkoff Quad uses 4 separate buck converters, one on each emitter. Buck converters only work in the input voltage is somewhat higher than the output voltage. Under heavy load, 3 cells would definitely fall below the output voltage and thus fall out of regulation while they still have capacity left. 4 Cells should remain in regulation the entire time.

Also, I'd want to have a copper pipe as a spacer, not PVC, with flashlight temps approaching 150F.

Ideally, the copper would actually make physical contact with the quad, thereby creating an additional thermal pathway away from the head, aside from the poor path through the threads, and down the skin of the light.

There are two ways this could work:

1) Use a cutdown mag body with a tail switch, and let the copper pipe run all the way up to the quad.
2) Remove the stock switch, then cut a hole in the copper pipe and install a Mag C Switch INSIDE the pipe.

A Cutdown ~1.5D mag running 2xAW C cells, with the copper lining inside as I described would be a pretty nice host for the quad. Nice and compact, still decent runtime, and it shouldn't reach excessive temperature.

 

[Drywolf]

Thank you, tons of good information. Special thanks to Gene....

 

[AvidHiker]

Don't have the Malkoff, but I have the Electrolumens Monsterthrow IV in a
3D Maglite. When I switched the 3D's for 4 C's (pvc adapter & reversed spring) it made an enormous difference in perceived brightness.

Russell

As 2xTrinity mentioned, voltage sag in the cells would be the main reason (I'm assuming you're using alkalines). Also, FYI, Wayne's dropins run direct drive - ie, no regulation is necessary since they're pretty much fed the appropriate voltage with 3 x D cells (hence the 3D "requirement"). Also, I think he recommends D NiMH cells as they have much lower internal resistance (and a bit lower total voltage) so will supply a relatively constant voltage during discharge, essentially eliminating the need for regulation (but, of course, you loose the advantage of the Quad's regulated design - wide input voltage - which gives you the flexibility to use the dropin in different mag forms with normal cells).

I wonder if its possible that you're starting to overdrive the LED using 4 1.5V cells instead of 3? I guess (if they're alkalines) with voltage sag the issue would be limited, but you might want to consider sticking with 3 cells in the interest of preserving your LED's life, even 3 NiMH C cells should do just fine I'd guess. I suppose Wayne would be the one to consult there.

 

[AvidHiker]

4 cells will stay in regulation longer as I believe the Malkoff Quad uses 4 separate buck converters, one on each emitter. Buck converters only work in the input voltage is somewhat higher than the output voltage. Under heavy load, 3 cells would definitely fall below the output voltage and thus fall out of regulation while they still have capacity left. 4 Cells should remain in regulation the entire time.

Also, I'd want to have a copper pipe as a spacer, not PVC, with flashlight temps approaching 150F.

Ideally, the copper would actually make physical contact with the quad, thereby creating an additional thermal pathway away from the head, aside from the poor path through the threads, and down the skin of the light.

There are two ways this could work:

1) Use a cutdown mag body with a tail switch, and let the copper pipe run all the way up to the quad.
2) Remove the stock switch, then cut a hole in the copper pipe and install a Mag C Switch INSIDE the pipe.

A Cutdown ~1.5D mag running 2xAW C cells, with the copper lining inside as I described would be a pretty nice host for the quad. Nice and compact, still decent runtime, and it shouldn't reach excessive temperature.

Hey, great suggestion!

Too bad I'm probably too lazy to mod my mag, but if I find myself having to run it for very long periods of time I would certainly consider this. Right now my heat issue is limited since I seldom run the light for more than 10 minutes at a clip - though it would be nice not to have to worry about heat...

 

[toadman]

As 2xTrinity mentioned, voltage sag in the cells would be the main reason (I'm assuming you're using alkalines). Also, FYI, Wayne's dropins run direct drive - ie, no regulation is necessary since they're pretty much fed the appropriate voltage with 3 x D cells (hence the 3D "requirement"). Also, I think he recommends D NiMH cells as they have much lower internal resistance (and a bit lower total voltage) so will supply a relatively constant voltage during discharge, essentially eliminating the need for regulation (but, of course, you loose the advantage of the Quad's regulated design - wide input voltage - which gives you the flexibility to use the dropin in different mag forms with normal cells).

I wonder if its possible that you're starting to overdrive the LED using 4 1.5V cells instead of 3? I guess (if they're alkalines) with voltage sag the issue would be limited, but you might want to consider sticking with 3 cells in the interest of preserving your LED's life, even 3 NiMH C cells should do just fine I'd guess. I suppose Wayne would be the one to consult there.

I'm using 4 C's NiMh & I rarely leave it on for more than 10 minutes a stretch. Hopefully if I ever leave it on for too long the ensuing heat radiating down to my hand will tell me it's time to turn it off. Considering
LED life, even if it shortens life by half thats still pretty long isn't it?
Beside's since it's currently the brightest flashlight that I have & my wow
factor light, "don't rain on my parade". I have a bunch of other lights for
utilitarian use.

 

[AvidHiker]

I'm using 4 C's NiMh & I rarely leave it on for more than 10 minutes a stretch. Hopefully if I ever leave it on for too long the ensuing heat radiating down to my hand will tell me it's time to turn it off. Considering
LED life, even if it shortens life by half thats still pretty long isn't it?
Beside's since it's currently the brightest flashlight that I have & my wow
factor light, "don't rain on my parade". I have a bunch of other lights for
utilitarian use.

:thumbsup: I hear ya. Not trying to knock it, or discourage you from experimenting, just figured I'd make you aware of what I've read.

Yeah, I'm no expert in driving LEDs but I'd guess you're probably OK especially if you're not running the light for very long. Reduced lifetime, maybe, but will you ever notice it? Debatable, but probably not. Just be on the lookout for "angry blue" - sudden shift to a significant blue hue can be a bad indicator that your LED isn't very happy with the supplied voltage.

 

[NA8]

Just be sure and put a bit of fat bicycle inner tube on the slippery end of your Maglite. Wouldn't want to drop that $250 drop-in on it's head. :devil:

 

[Drywolf]

Well here is the finished light. Very bright and not to heavy. I'm very happy. I just need to rig up a better way to charge the two Li-ion D cells. I read that a couple of magnets should work fine, as a place to clamp the roach (oops I meant alligator) clips.