Malkoff Runtime Graphs - CR123/Alkaline Comparo

Wurkkos

INFRNL

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Hello to all of the Malkoff Fans,
I have started this thread on behalf of peer pressure/help from my fellow Malkoff family :p.
The purpose of this thread mainly started because there are always repeated questions of what runtime is on a given Malkoff device/module, and/or particular setup. I decided (w/testing) to try to help out where i can and ended up where we are today.

This thread will be a one of a kind thread providing factual data of actual runtime results, graphed for almost every currently available Malkoff module in just about every configuration possible. this will allow anyone interested to be able to find runtime graphs for the various Malkoff device/modules all from one location (no more hunting through the Junkie thread).
These graphs I have made and will be making, will show you exactly how each particular module/device will behave.


Many people ask, "what is the runtime for this light?". Well the answer is not that simple. There are many variables accounted into the runtime of a given module/light. You cannot just say, this light will run for 1.5 hrs. Some multi-cell modules will run near full output till the protection circuit kicks in, some will have a constant declining output, or some may have good output for a given amount of time, then have a fast decline, etc.
Then there is the case of everyone's opinion on what usable output is. This will be more apparent when you see the graphs.



  • A little History of my adventure:

I was turned onto Malkoff Devices at the beginning of 2017 from a fellow member during a simple search for one or two lights that could provide me with more light/output than I currently had from other lights. This snowballed into a quick journey of a small collection of Malkoff devices. I eventually figured out what i wanted to stick with and sold off the rest of my collection. During that time I had done some runtime tests without the proper tools. I then purchased a reasonably priced light meter (Extech easyview 30) and began manually logging the entire runtime of a few certain lights.

As time went on, I kept noticing people asking about runtimes on lights/modules we recently discussed. So at this point (which was just several months ago now) I bought a light meter with data logging capabilities and started data logging my tests on the lights I still had. Okay, that's nice, but people are asking about lights I do not have or no longer have...what to do. In the last few months or so, I believe i have purchased just about every available Malkoff module/device and have been running all kinds of tests on different modules/configurations. A lot of tests have been from requests.
  • Here we are a few months later and many many hours of testing/graphing later. It has taken me at least a month to get the courage/time up to start this thread.
  • This will be a long drawn out process as it takes a lot of time and i am very limited on the time I have available. Please be patient as I will be making a lot of changes along the way to make this experience the best I can.


  • As always, I am always open to opinions, suggestions, etc.. and for anyone curious, I am in no way affiliated with Malkoff; I have purchased most everything brand new from Malkoff/Illumn, and have only purchased some items from the marketplace. I have purchased 3 different extech light meters, DMM's, 100's of various primary cells, etc; all out of my own pocket. I have not had any help in getting where I am (with equipment/modules/devices), and i am just doing this in good faith/kindness to My family here and any future members that join the Malkoff community. The only help I will ask for is for advice, suggestions, opinions to help make this as good as it can be for everyone that appreciates what these graphs actually provide.

One last thing before we get started. I do not claim that the lumen ratings given in my graphs are spot on accurate. They are within the ballpark of rated output and are close enough for accuracy for what we are looking at. Also do not focus on the curve of the graphs, you will need to pay close attention to the actual time increment because some of the runtimes are so long that I cannot properly graph the entire run. Which means depending on how I increment the graph, I can change the way the graph physically looks.

thank you for hanging in there with me as i rambled on.







  • Here is what i initially started out with for test equipment/tools and the SDL 400 which is what i currently use. I have not yet played with the HD450 for testing.
KtWHcB2.jpg
UGvJeav.jpg



  • Here is a quick setup/equipment showing current draw on a MDC head. Second pic showing accuracy of meters
MBTu6wB.jpg
iKpF7t9.jpg



  • Here is my current Malkoff Family.
I think I got the family together, not sure how well this will turn out. This does not include my 4000k/5000k M91BN's and don't pay attention to anything else in the pic. I might have to break up the pic so i can get closer.

SVuvAwH.jpg

hZUFrKC.jpg

4VBMTAc.jpg

fW2rwx9.jpg

bPTGH4s.jpg

suOJ6Xr.jpg

IVzARzs.jpg




Most popular Primary Cells; Which you will see comparison graphs on. and 3 popular Alkalines along with Energizer Lithium and Eneloop Pro which you will also see a comparison graph on.
Q1ifNVk.jpg



CR123A Runtime Comparison:
All cells are Brand New and bought just before this test to help assure the most accurate results.





2x primary comparison graph.






Here is the Alkaline (AA) graph:





After all my testing, I have chosen to use rayovac 1400mah primaries, rayovac AA, and Eneloop pro's AA, for all my runtime graphs. the reason why i chose rayovac primaries is because they are one of the top performers but the cheapest of the bunch (besides the cheap chinese titanium cells). Rayovac aa's are the cheapest and offer the best performance. Eneloop pro's offer great performance and i just like them over the standard eneloop's.


Rough breakdown of the process involved in me making a graph

Hope you are enjoying this so far. This is just so i did not leave you hanging with nothing but an opening statement:crackup:

Decided to do a refresh on primary runtime comparison using Malkoff devices
All cells being tested: Results are a bit different this time...

WY9OmNU.jpg
0soadaJ.jpg

Q5ELCyg.jpg
 
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INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

*NOTE* To view link images properly on a cell phone, you must be in desktop mode.

The cells I have chosen to use Primarily for my testing are:
Rayovac 1400 Primaries
Rayovac AA
Eneloop Pro
Energizer Lithium AA
Sanyo 18650GA 3500mah Protected/KP GA protected
Panasonic 18500 2000mah Protected/KP Panny 2000 Protected
KeepPower 18350 900mah Protected
KeepPower 16340 700mah Protected

(I now have KP 18350 1200mah protected cells, but do not plan to change what we have. I have however ran 1 test on M91BN 5000k to show the slight gains)

MDC Series:

  • MDC Neutral
AA Head
MDC N AA Rayovac
MDC N AA Duracell
MDC N AA Energizer
MDC N AA Energizer Lithium
MDC N AA Eneloop Pro
MDC N AA Eneloop Pro 4/20/2018

123/2x AA Head
MDC N 2-3.2v Head Rayovac 1400
MDC N 2-3.2v Head Rayovac AA
MDC N 2-3.2v Head Eneloop
MDC N 2-3.2v Head Eneloop Pro
MDC N 2-3.2v Head 2x Rayovac AA
MDC N 2-3.2v Head 2x Eneloop
MDC N 2-3.2v Head 2x Eneloop Pro

Warm
MDC W AA Eneloop Pro

16650
MDC 16650 219b KP 2500 Protected
MDC 16650 N 3v Rayovac Primary










M31 Series:
High Mode
  • ​Primaries
M31 Rayovac 1400
M31L Rayovac 1400
M31W Rayovac 1400
M31 219b Rayovac 1400
M31L 219b v1 Rayovac 1400
M31L 219b Rayovac 1400
M31LL 219b Rayovac 1400
M31LLL 219b Rayovac 1400



  • AA
M31 Rayovac AA
M31 Eneloop
M31 Eneloop Pro
M31 Energizer Lithium AA
M31 2x Rayovac AA
M31 2x Eneloop
M31 2x Eneloop Pro
M31 2x Energizer Lithium AA

M31L Eneloop
M31L Eneloop Pro
M31L 2x Eneloop
M31L 2x Eneloop Pro

M31W Eneloop
M31W Eneloop Pro
M31W 2x Eneloop
M31W 2x Eneloop Pro
M31W 2x Energizer Lithium AA


M31 219b Eneloop Pro


M31L 219b v1 Rayovac AA
M31L 219b v1 Eneloop Std
M31L 219b v1 Eneloop Pro
M31L 219b v1 Energizer Lithium AA
M31L 219b v1 2x Eneloop Pro

M31L 219b Rayovac AA
M31L 219b Eneloop
M31L 219b Eneloop Pro
M31L 219b Energizer Lithium AA
M31L 219b 2x Rayovac AA
M31L219b 2x Eneloop
M31L 219b 2x Eneloop Pro
M31L 219b 2x Energizer Lithium AA

M31LL 219b Eneloop
M31LL 219b Eneloop Pro
M31LL 219b 2x Energizer lithium AA

M31LLL 219b Rayovac AA
M31LLL 219b Eneloop
M31LLL 219b Eneloop Pro






















M61 Series:
​High Mode

  • Cool White
  • Primaries
M361 MD2 Rayovac 1400

M61 325 MD2 Rayovac 1400

M61 325 MD3 Rayovac 1400

M61 425 MD2 Rayovac 1400
M61 425 MD3 Rayovac 1400

M61L MD2 Rayovac 1400
M61LL MD2 Rayovac 1400

M61HOT MD2 Rayovac 1400

M61T MD2 Rayovac 1400
M61T MD3 Rayovac 1400
  • Comparison Graphs



M361 MD1 KP18350 900 Protected
M361 MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected

M61 325 MD1 KP16340 700

M61 325 MD1 KP 18350 900
M61 325 MD1.5 Panasonic 18500 2000
M61 325 MD2 KP 16650 2500
M61 325 MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected

M61 325 MD2 KP 16340 700
M61 325 MD2 KP18350 900
M61 325 MD3 Panasonic 18500 2000
M61 325 MD4 KP 16650 2500
M61 325 MD4 18650GA 3500

M61 425 MD1 16340 700 Protected
M61 425 MD1 18350 900 Protected
M61 425 MD1.5 18500 2000 Protected
M61 425 MD2 16650 2500 Protected
M61 425 MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected
M61 425 MD2 16340 700 Protected
M61 425 MD2 18350 900 Protected
M61 425 MD3 18500 2000 Protected
M61 425 MD4 16650 2500 Protected
M61 425 MD4 18650GA 3500 Protected

M61L MD1 KP 18350 900 Protected
M61L MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected

M61LL MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected

M61HOT MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected

M61T MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected
M61T MD2 KP18350 900 Protected
M61T MD3 18500 Panasonic 2000 Protected
M61T MD4 18650GA 3500 Protected











  • Neutral/Warm
  • Primaries
M61N MD2 Rayovac 1400

M61NL MD2 Rayovac 1400

M61WLL MD1 Rayovac 1400
M61WLL MD2 Rayovac 1400
M61WLL MD3 Rayovac 1400

M61N MD1 KP 16340 700 Protected
M61N MD1 KP 18350 900 Protected
M61N MD1.5 Panasonic 18500 2500 Protected
M61N MD2 KP 16650 2500 Protected
M61N MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected
M61N MD2 KP 18350 900 Protected
M61N MD3 18500 Panasonic 2000 Protected
M61N MD3 Panasonic 2000 Protected 2019/2020
M61N MD4 KP 16650 2500 Protected
M61N MD4 18650GA 3500 Protected

M61NL MD2 18650GA Protected
M61NL 50Lm Mode

M61W MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected


  • Comparison Graphs
M61WLL Rayovac 1400 Comparison





  • Nichia 219b
M361 219b MD2 Rayovac 1400
M361 219b MD2 18650GA Protected

M61 219b MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected


M61L 219b MD2 Rayovac 1400
M61L 219b MD2 18650GA Protected

M61LLL 219b KP 16340 700
M61LLL 219b 2x Eneloop Pro
M61LLL 219b 3x Eneloop Pro

M61 219b SHO MD2 Rayovac 1400
M61 219b SHO MD2 KP 16340 700
M61 219b SHO MD2 KP 18350 900

Comparison Graphs



Hound Dog:

  • Cool White
HD 18650 CW MD2 Rayovac 1400
HD 18650 CW KP 18350 900
HD 18650 CW Panasonic 18500 2000
HD 18650 CW KP 16650 2500
HD 18650 CW 18650GA 3500
HD 18650 CW GA 3500 Protected High


  • Hound Dog 18650 (Neutral)
HD 18650 N Rayovac 1400 Low
HD 18650 N Rayovac 1400 High

HD 18650 N GA 3500 Protected Low

HD 18650 N GA 3500 Protected High

HD 18650 N 2x Eneloop Pro High


Comparison Graphs



  • Hound Dog XML (Neutral)
XML N MD3 Panasonic 2000 Protected High
XML N MD4 GA 3500 protected High


  • Hound Dog Super (Neutral)
​High Mode
Super N MD1 KP 18350 900 Protected
Super N MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected
Super N MD3 Panasonic 2000 Protected
Super N MD4 18650GA 3500 Protected
Super N MD6 18650GA 3500 Protected
Low Mode
Super N MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected
Super N MD3 Panasonic 2000 Protected
Super N MD4 18650GA Protected

Wildcat:

  • Cool White
WCv6 CW MD3 Rayovac
WCv6 CW MD2 KP 18350 900 Protected
WCv6 CW MD3 Panasonic 18500 2000 Protected
WCv6 CW MD4 KP 16650 2500 Protected
WCv6 CW MD4 18650GA 3500 Protected
v6 CW MD4 18650GA Protected




  • Neutral
v6 N MD2 18350 900 Protected
v6 N MD3 18500 2000 Protected
v6 N MD4 18650GA 3500 Protected
v6 N MD6 18650GA 3500 Protected

WC v6 N MD2 KP16340 700 Protected (Low Mode)

Comparison Graphs


M91 Series:
High Mode
M91B MD3 Rayovac 1400
M91B MD2 KP18350 900 Protected
M91B MD3 Panasonic 18500 2000 Protected
M91B MD4 KP16650 2500 Protected
M91B MD4 18650GA Protected

M91BN 5000k MD2 KP18350 900 Protected

M91W MD4 18650GA 3500 Protected

M91BW MD4 18650GA Protected



M91T MD3 Rayovac 1400
M91T MD2 18650GA 3500 Protected
M91T MD2 KP 18350 900 Protected
M91T MD3 Panasonic 18500 2000 Protected
M91T MD4 KP 16650 2500 Protected
M91T MD4 18650GA Protected











 
Last edited:

INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Here is a list of voltages that will be tested. I actually have to alter this chart to show what will actually be tested because i will use an average on Eneloop and Li-ion cells...but it gives you an idea. I will have over 600 readings with all of the modules/lights that need to be tested


Sample of the Specs sheet I am working on

tlMc57d.jpg

OSBxJ5g.jpg

TZocMrf.jpg


Malkoff Specs MDC-M31.jpg
M61 Specs.jpg
Malkoff Specs Lg. Lights.jpg
 
Last edited:

INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Just posted some pics to try and get you excited. it is after 4am here, so i need to get a few hrs of rest. I will try to add more tomorrow, but it will be a busy day; so we will see. Thank you for your patience



I will also eventually be posting a chart/graph of actual current draw in relation to different given voltages for each module/device. that is also a work in progress.

Here is my latest graph to give some of the new folks the idea behind all of this:
wYVo3vA.jpg






EDIT: Felt like moving this info here:
  • Requested by ETC
Okay, this is what i got with my initial testing of H/L ring on T/HOT

HOT:
3.2v from power supply: approx 3.9lm
4.2v from power supply: approx 8lm
6.0v from power supply: approx 16.7lm

4.15v from li-ion: approx 7.4lm
6.24v from 2x primary: approx 17.5lm

So it seems that in this particular case, the power supply and actual cell are closely matched

T:
3.2v from power supply: approx 1.1lm
4.2v from power supply: approx 5.6lm
6.0v from power supply: approx 14.5lm

4.15v from li-ion: approx 5.3lm
6.24v from 2x primary: approx 15.5lm
8.3v from 2x li-ion: approx 25.7lm

so again, power supply and actual cells are closely matched in this test


With all this being said: @ETC: what cells will you mostly be using for me to get the 40-50lm you are after from low mode? Being the T is versatile, this may be a trick. I can base it off of single li-ion which is what I think Malkoff does. then you will have to deal with what you get from other variations. Or i can set it based off 6v? I'm not sure.

This will be custom tailored to your wish;)
 
Last edited:

tech25

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Thank you so much! This is awesome! I have been enjoying your graphs- this really helps in planning trips with my lights.
 

archimedes

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Excellent, congrats @INFRNL !

I just wanted to make a couple of points early in this thread ....

OP is providing the community here on CPF with his hard work and valuable data, so please be courteous with postings in this thread.

The primary focus of this Malkoff runtime thread will be Malkoff runtimes. All else not directly related to that will be considered off topic, and potentially removed.

Please take extended discussion and unrelated debate elsewhere on the forum, as this particular thread will be moderated to keep it focused as an informational resource.

Thank you all ... :goodjob:
 
Last edited:

INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Thank you guys.
Yes many have seen the Graphs I have been making the past couple months or so and have also helped with suggestions to get to where we are today. there are several Fellow members that have also helped to get us here today with this thread and i hope you all know who you are. This also Includes one of our great mods who has already spoken.

Without you guys I would have never started this adventure. As you can see, it is a bit rough right now and i did not exactly start it at the right time. Today is my last day of being home and I have a bunch of things to get done.

A quick one liner to let you know why my time here is limited:
I am an independent owner-operator (semi-driver), I haul a stepdeck/flatbed trailer all over the country and am only home for a decent amount of time, once a month. However I am temporarily on a new schedule doing some dedicated runs; So currently, I will be home 1-2 days a week and every 3-4 weeks i will stay home 1 week.



Back on topic: I'm sure many of you already have seen this, but i just haven't paid attention for whatever reason. I will also be putting this link (actually a sticky) in my op: NotRegulated's Malkoff Specs

I will also be making something similar for my own use but will provide actual approx current draw measurements for various voltages rather than spec'd measurements from malkoff data.


Upcoming I have some results for a member request from badbs101.
 

INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Here are the Energizer Lithium single AA results for the M31L 219b:
IB1xrMO.jpg


Here is the updated M31L 219b comparison graph
tsyaisB.jpg
 

badbs101

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

I think the Energizer Lithium's performance is pretty impressive. Fairly flat and longer than even the Eneloops. The long taper at the end gives a user plenty of warning vs the abrupt loss of power when using CR123. I'm definitely going to build some MDC Malkoffs using 1-AA and 2-AA as a power source.

Thanks again for your time, and effort! :thumbsup:

Is a 2-AA Energizer Lithium test in the future?

Here are the Energizer Lithium single AA results for the M31L 219b:


Here is the updated M31L 219b comparison graph
 
Last edited:

INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

I think the Energizer Lithium's performance is pretty impressive. Fairly flat and longer than even the Eneloops. The long taper at the end gives a user plenty of warning vs the abrupt loss of power when using CR123. I'm definitely going to build some MDC Malkoffs using 1-AA and 2-AA as a power source.

Thanks again for your time, and effort! :thumbsup:

Is a 2-AA Energizer Lithium test in the future?

I can run the test for you while i'm away today and provide results before I head out for work tonight. I wasn't sure if you still wanted to see them or not. Will get this going now, as i will be heading out here shortly.
 

INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Here are the results you have been waiting for!
First off are the M31L 219b 2x Energizer Lithium results
4k6Xk8x.jpg


Next up is the Energizer Lithium AA vs 2xAA results
yGuWuk6.jpg



and finally the complete Final M31L 219b comparison with all cells tested.
It appears that the 2x Energizer Lithiums will provide 25mins more of near full output than 2x Eneloop Pro's.
epDqHFk.jpg
 
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flatline

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

The abrupt cut-off at the end is the kind of thing I expect to see when a li-ion protection circuit kicks in, but this time it's near-perfect regulation combined with cells that can give up their entire stored energy before their voltage sags too much.

It's like simulating a digital effect, but with analog components.

Whether or not it's a good behavior for a flashlight is a matter of opinion, but it's still cool to see.

--flatline
 

badbs101

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Another win for the Energizer Lithiums. It's kind of funny to think that no one has really done this type of comparative testing until now, especially the Energizer Lithiums and the M31 Malkoffs.

Thanks so much for your trouble.
 

Rob Babcock

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Wow, epic thread! I'll be keeping an eye on this! Thanks so much for doing this for your fellow CPF brethren (and sisters, too, natch).
 

INFRNL

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Well I hope for this thread to be a great resource.

I already have a ton of tests done and am continually running new tests as well. I have started moving some graphs over that I have already done. As you will notice on some of my earlier graphs, they need to be changed to follow the new/current format. there are also some errors/typo's that need to be fixed.

Also some of you that do not know, I am eventually going to be making a DIY integrating sphere. I am not sure how this will compare to my current setup/results. If there is a big discrepancy, i will continue all my tests with my current setup to keep all things equal.

Thank you for stopping in and i hope that you find all of this info helpful/useful; I know that the Junkies are getting some answers they need from it. Or at least a better perspective for choices they are/have considered.
 

CLB

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Infernl, I want to add my thanks for all the work you have put, and will put, into this project, as it is a valuable resource for all of us. As you can see, I have been a CPF member for a long time, but very rarely post. I hope this is an indication of the sincerity of my appreciation. Keep up the good work!
 

Modernflame

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Re: Malkoff Runtime Graphs - Ongoing Adventure

Until now, the graphs had been difficult to read in detail, but the links you've provided above have resolved this completely. Fantastic resource! It's a one of a kind gift to the flashaholic community.
 
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