Master thread for disasters and generators.

[turbodog]

...

The only other solution I can see is to pony up the USD 1300 a Honda eu10i costs locally, plus whatever they will charge for the altitude jet kits, plus the extra work/worry of swapping the jets myself whenever I move between different altitudes :-/

Do the math on expected runtime in a year as it relates to fuel costs.

The Honda... I'm pretty sure I could swap the jet on it without removing the carb, with a wrench and 90 degree screwdriver, in less than 5 minutes.

 

[dmenezes]

Do the math on expected runtime in a year as it relates to fuel costs.

I have solar panels so I I only run the generator when the sky is heavily clouded for more than 2-3 days in a row (very rare in the places I like to camp -- not funny camping in the rain).

I estimate less than 100h a year of generator use (which would be 4h every ~2 weeks in average) , so not really a great cost, specially as diesel (for the pickup truck) costs less than gas around here (the opposite of in the US).

The Honda... I'm pretty sure I could swap the jet on it without removing the carb, with a wrench and 90 degree screwdriver, in less than 5 minutes.

I remember seeing a "manual" or "technical bulletin" from Honda about jet replacement, and remember it was quite an involved procedure. But this is from memory and I may well be wrong, I will search for it and post back.

 

[Bob2650]

Here is one of the bulletins for the EU2000i on high altitude jets.

cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf

 

[Bob2650]

There are a few fuel injected generators on the market now but not in the small sizes yet. The smallest I saw on an internet search was a 4500 open frame.

 

[Bob2650]

At 13,000' the normal gasoline engine will be down to 60% of the sea level rated power.
I used to live in Colorado and the turbo charged fuel injected engines had plenty of power to climb the mountain highways. You can spot someone on vacation with a carbureted engine from the flat lands by the black smoke. Older motor homes were the worst.
Back on topic:
At high altitude you will need twice the generator you needed at sea level to get the same power.

 

[dmenezes]

Here is one of the bulletins for the EU2200i on high altitude jets.

cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf

Yeah, I remember reading this bulletin too. Unfortunately it's basically a 'user manual', ie recommending which jet kits should be used for each altitude (and the resulting performance), but limiting itself to "contact an authorized Honda Power Equipment Dealer near you for assistance" when it comes to doing the jet-swapping procedure itself. Costs aside, it's not really an option when you are hundreds of kilometers away from the nearest anything-Dealer...

I then remembered that I saw (or rather, deduced) the jet swapping procedure from reading a "service manual" available on the internet (can't post the link here as it would mean my post would spend a week on 'moderation', but if you Google for "Honda+EU1000I+service+manual by EACF" (without the quotes) it should be the first real link (after the ads). There, at p.178, they have a section called "Carburetor" that refers to diagrams HA166 and HA167 (both on p.181), this last one shows the jet as item #3.

Perhaps if I had the generator in front of me everything would prove to be much simpler, but having just the manual and trying to follow it as best as I can, it seems *really* complicated.

 

[dmenezes]

At 13,000' the normal gasoline engine will be down to 60% of the sea level rated power.
[...]

At high altitude you will need twice the generator you needed at sea level to get the same power.

Sure thing, and not a problem: I could live with half of a 1000W generator (it's what I actually manage to get from my chinese toy at sea level); it just means I would have to run it twice as long to recharge the RV batteries.

I used to live in Colorado and the turbo charged fuel injected engines had plenty of power to climb the mountain highways.

I see this with my Nissan D22 (which has a turbo charged diesel engine): at high altitudes, its engine develops very little power unless I accelerate to 2000 RPM and over (using a lower gear if needed), this is when the turbo engages and immediately the engine starts developing tons of power.

 

[turbodog]

We are missing an easy fix. There are underhood, belt-driven generators that output a/c directly, have a variety of power levels, and are voltage regulated to compensate for varying rpms.

 

[bubbatime]

If charging batteries with a Nissan car engine is option one, I would rapidly come up with option 2.

A car engine uses WAY too much fuel to consider it a serious option for battery charging. Just get a 2000 watt inverter generator. Most have a 79cc gas engine and they can idle down when the load is low and sip fuel. I own two made by Champion and it’s basically a Yamaha clone. Very good quality for the money. Some off grid folks have ran these champion generators for thousands of hours.

I live in Florida and have lost power during hurricanes for months in my lifetime. My family didn’t have a generator for a lot of that and I’ll never do that again. Try sleeping when it’s 95 degrees inside and 100% humidity.

Then we had a big generator and I found it had way too much capacity and was hard to keep fueled. Dumping 7 gallons of gas in it every 8 hours was a chore and expensive. My 2000 watt generator will power my fridge, internet, and a window AC unit all day long for 3-4 gallons of gas. It sips fuel.

 

[turbodog]

...

A car engine uses WAY too much fuel to consider it a serious option for battery charging. ...

A little googling yields a rough estimate of 4 gallons/day for a 4cyl/2 liter engine idling and 6 gallons for v6/3-4 liter. So it's not as bad as one might assume.

The higher compression, better lubrication, better valving, and water cooling efficiency helps bridge the gap on displacements.

It would be very interesting to see a single cylinder 2kw unit with electric cooling fan, high compression, fuel injection, and water cooling.

 

[dmenezes]

We are missing an easy fix. There are underhood, belt-driven generators that output a/c directly, have a variety of power levels, and are voltage regulated to compensate for varying rpms.

This is an intriguing idea, thanks for bringing it up. I think I even have space under the hood for mounting it.

Can you point me towards more info? Some googling returned only a seller (fabcopower.com) but no examples on how to install this, specially re: the belt that I understand will have to go from the engine to the generator. I also don't know how it would affect engine cranking (as the generator would certainly present added mechanical load).

 

[dmenezes]

Just get a 2000 watt inverter generator.

Thanks for your suggestion, but you must have missed my posts where I explained my special circumstances -- specially alternating altitudes between sea-level and high mountains (15000ft and up), which would either need an EFI generator (which can't be found except at very high wattages) or constantly changing carburator jets depending on the altitude (which isn't available for all generators, and for the ones that have it, don't seem to be a simple procedure).

The charm of using the pickup truck engine+alternator (besides the fact that I already own it) is that it works great at any altitude, and should offer more than enough power even at idle. The main issue is whether its current alternator would support extended usage for feeding the inverter, without burning.

 

[dmenezes]

A little googling yields a rough estimate of 4 gallons/day for a 4cyl/2 liter engine idling and 6 gallons for v6/3-4 liter. So it's not as bad as one might assume.

The higher compression, better lubrication, better valving, and water cooling efficiency helps bridge the gap on displacements.

It would be very interesting to see a single cylinder 2kw unit with electric cooling fan, high compression, fuel injection, and water cooling.

This is *exactly* the point made by CarGenerator.com for their product (which isn't much more than a common pure-sine-wave inverter connected to the car's battery, installed in a rain-resistant box).

 

[idleprocess]

I also don't know how it would affect engine cranking (as the generator would certainly present added mechanical load).

So long as the generator isn't connected to a load, probably no more drag than a freewheeling pully ala a disengaged AC compressor.

 

[Bob2650]

Are you charging a 12 volt battery bank in the camper?
If so, an inverter is not needed and only represents an inefficiency.

 

[bubbatime]

I owned a small engine shop for a number of years. A couple things.

I don’t know what the fuel consumption is on an idling Nissan 2.2L engine. I would have thought it would be more than 4 gal per day, but maybe that figure is correct. BUT, that’s an engine with no load. Fuel consumption on stationary engines is based on the loads placed on that engine. Any alternators or generator apparatus placed on such an engine that can produce 1000-2000 watts is going to drastically increase fuel consumption.

Also have to plan for maintenance. Rule of thumb is as follows-
1)An air cooled generator with no oil filter needs an oil change every 50 hours or 2 days use.
2)An air cooled generator with an oil filter needs an oil change every 100 hours or 4 days use
3) A water cooled generator with oil filter needs an oil change every 200 hours or 8 days use

Charging batteries with a car engine is reverse economics. Id much rather put hours and wear on a $400 inverter generator than a $4000 car engine.

Honda is releasing their 3000 watt generator this year with electronic fuel injection. There are a few articles on this new generator.

 

[dmenezes]

Are you charging a 12 volt battery bank in the camper?

It's a 3 x 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 battery bank, connected to a Victron Multiplus 1200/30 charger/inverter which is already configured for charging them (LiFePO4 needs special charging parameters).

If so, an inverter is not needed and only represents an inefficiency.

Agreed, but it's supposedly a small (less than 10%) inefficiency.

Getting AC from an inverter or generator directly into the RV AC input saves me from having to buy/install/configure/maintain a DC-DC charger for the LiFePO4 batteries, *and* getting and routing thick cables from the pickup truck to the DC-DC input .

 

[dmenezes]

Any alternators or generator apparatus placed on such an engine that can produce 1000-2000 watts is going to drastically increase fuel consumption.

That's not a problem for me, as it would be used only sparingly (I have solar panels in my RV, and would only need to use the engine setup after 2-3 days with no sun, which is rare in the kind of places I like to camp). I estimate less than 100h/year of actual usage.

Honda is releasing their 3000 watt generator this year with electronic fuel injection. There are a few articles on this new generator.

Thanks for the heads-up. I searched and was able to find Honda's announcement : https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2022/p220117eng.html
(via this: https://www.greentractortalk.com/threads/hondas-new-generator.215754/).

The "via" above mentions fuel injection, Honda's announcement doesn't, but as there's a big "FI" logo in blue in the generator's picture, I assume it will be indeed fuel-injected.

Honda's announcement mentions it would be available in Europe starting March/2022 (ie, last month). I searched a little more and found it being sold in just one place: https://www.kelvinpowertools.com/honda-eu32i-3.2kva-portable-inverter-generator-c-117-p-37704

Ouch, GBP 2579 (~USD 3300) is really expensive. And I definitely don't need 3.2KW, 1KW would be more than enough.

 

[turbodog]

Google is our friend:
'small fuel injected generator'

Powerhouse PH2400PRi/E Inverter Generator With Electronic Fuel Injection - 2400 Watt

The Powerhouse Inverter Generator With Electronic Fuel Injection is perfect for campgrounds and outdoor use.

www.rvupgradestore.com

$509
2400w

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EIZ8BSU/?tag=cpf0b6-20

$963
2500w

 

[dmenezes]

Google is our friend:
'small fuel injected generator'

Powerhouse PH2400PRi/E Inverter Generator With Electronic Fuel Injection - 2400 Watt

The Powerhouse Inverter Generator With Electronic Fuel Injection is perfect for campgrounds and outdoor use.

www.rvupgradestore.com

$509
2400w

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EIZ8BSU/?tag=cpf0b6-20

$963
2500w

Your Google-fu must be stronger than mine, I could swear I tried a very similar search but got no such results. Many thanks!

Link #2 looks very very similar (identical) to this Lifan model: http://www.lifanpowerusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ESI-2500iER-NEW-MANUAL.pdf (only the direct link to this PDF works, this model is (no longer?) listed at their website).