Max lumens of 40 watt halogen?

[klrman]

Is 900 lumens the maximum light a 40 watt halogen bulb can produce? So far I found this link for a 900 lumen Osram bulb which is probably double the light of my bulb http://www.lampsplus.com/Products/OSRAM-40-Watt-G9-Halogen-Light-Bulb__64196.html

I can't seem to find this bulb anywhere in Canada though.

 

[ponygt65]

What is your setup?

It's not 'always' a good idea to just toss a higher wattage lamp in. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?:thinking:

 

[klrman]

It still would be only a 40 watt max bulb as the manufacturer recommends, but with more brightness. My understanding is that the regular lumens for a 40 watt halogen bulb is about 450 lms, so I want to increase the lumens to 900+ to give more light in the hallway and I also have the same fixture in my living room. Here is the ceiling light that it would go in.

 

[ponygt65]

It still would be only a 40 watt max bulb as the manufacturer recommends, but with more brightness. My understanding is that the regular lumens for a 40 watt halogen bulb is about 450 lms, so I want to increase the lumens to 900+ to give more light in the hallway and I also have the same fixture in my living room. Here is the ceiling light that it would go in.

Gotcha.........

That fixture have a loop G9 base instead of a standard bi-pin G9? The sockets are different IIRC.

Nice luminaire BTW.

 

[klrman]

Thanks, it throws off a nice light pattern. It has the standard G9 loop base. I ordered the OSRAM 900 lms 40 watt bulb and will hope for the best.

 

[blasterman]

Is 900 lumens the maximum light a 40 watt halogen bulb can produce?

The '900' spec sounds like it measured with a reflector. I can't remember the exact way lumens are measured, but '900' is about double what I'm seeing commonly measured for bi-pin halogen of other brands. One brand isn't just going to have double the lumens at the same wattage, unless they are also claiming room temperature fusion. :duh2:

Bi-pins will tend to vary in terms of longevity (a lot) and perhaps color with cheaper brands being more green/yellow (haven't figured out why but it seems a trend), but overall intensity won't vary much. Sorry.....

Might be a cool lamp to mod with LEDs though. Three/four Cree neutral whites, and away you go :huh:

 

[klrman]

The '900' spec sounds like it measured with a reflector.

I think they measured it whilst surrounding it by mirrors pointed at the sun Oh well, it sounded too good to be true. I'll know next week when I get it if it is really as bright as they say and post it here.

 

[hit4six]

I don't think that Osram lamp is a con, generally you get what you pay for. Philips Masterline 12v bulbs claim 24 lumens per watt with 5000 hour life. Standard car headlights are more efficient.

I'm impressed with my mains voltage Osram 40w candle fitting lamps. Maybe 650+ lumens, my guess. Less expensive than what you bought, maybe those are more efficient.

 

[klrman]

I don't think that Osram lamp is a con, generally you get what you pay for. Philips Masterline 12v bulbs claim 24 lumens per watt with 5000 hour life. Standard car headlights are more efficient.

I'm impressed with my mains voltage Osram 40w candle fitting lamps. Maybe 650+ lumens, my guess. Less expensive than what you bought, maybe those are more efficient.

That makes me feel better! I heard Osram makes good bulbs so I wanted to give it a try. Looking more forward now when it arrives. We have three of the same light fixtures and they look fine in the bedroom and hallway, just not strong enough in the living room.

 

[blasterman]

I'm curious about the performance of the new bulb, but I don't think you'll see much difference with other brands of bi-pins. I use a lot of these in DJ lights, etc., and the only real difference I've seen in brands/price is longevity. Voltage (240/120/24/12) doesn't seem to influence anything. Higher wattage bulbs require better cooling to last longer.

Automobile rated bulbs are supposed to have very durable filaments with additional support. They aren't otherwise more efficient than other halogen bulbs...unless they are HIR.

40watts is 40watts / energy in = energy out. Longer life filaments actually tend to be a bit dimmer initially because they are supposed to handle a bit higher voltage.

 

[klrman]

I have a 100 watt incandescent bulb at 1100 lumen and then I purchased another 100watt incandescent bulb from Sylvania with 1650 lumen and the difference was like night and day as it was that much brighter using the same wattage. I was hoping it would be the same with the halogen bulbs that the difference in lumen would be noticeable. I'll let you know how it is when I get it. They said it will take about 7-10 business to get to Canada with Fed-Ex.

 

[ponygt65]

I'm curious about the performance of the new bulb, but I don't think you'll see much difference with other brands of bi-pins. I use a lot of these in DJ lights, etc., and the only real difference I've seen in brands/price is longevity. Voltage (240/120/24/12) doesn't seem to influence anything. Higher wattage bulbs require better cooling to last longer.

Automobile rated bulbs are supposed to have very durable filaments with additional support. They aren't otherwise more efficient than other halogen bulbs...unless they are HIR.

40watts is 40watts / energy in = energy out. Longer life filaments actually tend to be a bit dimmer initially because they are supposed to handle a bit higher voltage.

The halogen listed above 'could be' (althoug I didn't see it) an IR lamp. If that' the case, then increased lumens with identical wattage is very possible.

I have a 100 watt incandescent bulb at 1100 lumen and then I purchased another 100watt incandescent bulb from Sylvania with 1650 lumen and the difference was like night and day as it was that much brighter using the same wattage. I was hoping it would be the same with the halogen bulbs that the difference in lumen would be noticeable. I'll let you know how it is when I get it. They said it will take about 7-10 business to get to Canada with Fed-Ex.

Osram is the parent company to Sylvania. They make VERY nice lamps.....but sylvania ballasts.....hmm...I'd install one if it was free, but that's about all.

 

[blasterman]

the difference was like night and day as it was that much brighter using the same wattage.

I'd love to see both bulbs checked side by side for simple ohm/resistance...assuming they are the same age.

 

[hit4six]

I'd love to see both bulbs checked side by side for simple ohm/resistance...assuming they are the same age.

I've come across a link suggesting that the bulb I'm interested in, a 20w mr16, draws 24w. But that was only a sample of one, I can always test mine if I buy a multimeter.
I don't find it hard to believe that one 100w bulb was much brighter than the other, same current draw. I don't want to get too controversial, but my impression is that big light companies have choosen to often sell poor (edit lower performance) lights at a price people like rather than lights people will like at a price customers may initially baulk at. In the Uk 'low energy light bulbs' (cfl, cft) are the butt of jokes, associated with being dim (we were told 21w=100w in output) having poor CRI and high UV output (complaints of eczma being exacerbated). There is a minor rebellion against them! (We still get scare stories in the papers about the deadly mercury powder in cfl's, so lethal you might get a rash if you break one of these thick glass bulbs. I didn't get any rash breaking one on my wooden floor, I cleared it up without gloves. ed Not that I'm suggesting mercury is harmless.) But then the 'low energy' bulbs that people are familiar with are cheap low quality ones (made my the 'respectable' Philips). I'm not wishing to upset anyone with my views (edit I mean I'm sure there is a lot I don't know about this topic, I don't mean to claim I am some sort of expert) but it is a topic which I am interested in learning more about. Here in Europe the EU can influence industry if they are meant to be working together to achieve lower energy consumption and I think they failed. Why did I not know until a couple months ago that I could replace any 'standard' bulb with a more efficient halogen one which would have a whiter colour I find more pleasant? It may cost £4 a bulb but it is better value for money overall. I won't find a halogen bulb at the cornershop though ! So in short paying a bit more and getting something a lot better I find believable, I think manufacturers (ed sometimes) drastically compromise quality (ed performance) for price.

But if this is about a 900 lumen 40w bulb, who said it was 900 lumen? Osram?

And if it is about the brightest lamp you can use in the fixture - a brighter 40w bulb will be hotter to the touch and anything holding the bulb may get hotter than with a standard 40w bulb. There will be relatively less radiated heat, (40w in = 40w out), so it shouldn't overheat anythng which it doesn't touch. I doubt 40w is a limit based on what current the wires can handle, i think heat from the lamp capsule is the issue.

 

[blasterman]

I won't find a halogen bulb at the cornershop though ! So in short paying a bit more and getting something a lot better I find believable, I think manufacturers (ed sometimes) drastically compromise quality (ed performance) for price.

This is for the most part very true. Here in the states, halogen bulbs cost about 4-5x as much compared to standard incan bulbs based on local big box store prices. If you buy them on line you can reduce that about 3x. Still, most consumers will stick to incan even though the additional price is worth it for halogen, IMHO, because of it's higher color temp and additional longevity. You need to be carefull of really cheap chinese halogen though because these are the ones I'm finding have a really severe yellow/green cast. Not sure if this is caused by the gas mix or filament composition in the enclosure. I suspect it's the former.

However, we need to awknowledge that when dealing with specific light technologies like incan or halogen that the current technology pinnacled long ago. You just don't buy a 75watt Incan or 40watt halogen respectively and get 2x the photons at the same wattage compared to a cheaper bulb. You might get a higher quality reflector, but aside from HIR, there shouldn't be much difference.

An incan or halogen light bulb functions like a simple resistor, and to get more light out of it you need a longer or thicker filament, which means it's running more wattage than the other 40 or 75watt bulb that appears dimmer. Simply put, they aren't the same wattage because you don't get something for nothing.

The converse also works because one way to increase the life of an incan or Halogen bulb is increase voltage tolerance of the filament. This means you can get close to 10k hours out of some of them, but you tend to lose some initial light.

 

[hit4six]

Thanks for the information, my reply

However, we need to awknowledge that when dealing with specific light technologies like incan or halogen that the current technology pinnacled long ago. You just don't buy a 75watt Incan or 40watt halogen respectively and get 2x the photons at the same wattage compared to a cheaper bulb. You might get a higher quality reflector, but aside from HIR, there shouldn't be much difference.

Not new technology, but you still pay a premium for the best gas mixtures and lamps manufactured at high pressure, and as I understand these factors affect performance.

HIR, I knew that as IRC, infra red coating.

 

[ponygt65]

HIR - Halogen Infrared Reflector.

The 'lamp capsule' is positioned and designed slightly different for better efficacy.

 

[klrman]

Guess I won't know anytime soon if the bulbs are really twice as bright or not as I just got an email from the company stating that they are sorry, but they don't have it in stock and their best guess is that it should be shipped out to me by around May-6.

But if this is about a 900 lumen 40w bulb, who said it was 900 lumen? Osram?

I doubt 40w is a limit based on what current the wires can handle, i think heat from the lamp capsule is the issue.

So in short paying a bit more and getting something a lot better I find believable, I think manufacturers (ed sometimes) drastically compromise quality (ed performance) for price.

This website says its 900 lumen, but who knows if it is really true or not! http://www.lampsplus.com/Products/OSRAM-40-Watt-G9-Halogen-Light-Bulb__64196.html

I agree, the heat would be why I can't put a 60 or 100 watt bulb in there. Halogens seem to heat up quite a bit.

Without knowing much about the technical side either I tend to agree with you. At the local hardware store, the 100watt incandescent bulb rated at 1100 lumen cost 50 cents and the one rated at 1650 lumen cost over a dollar, but still 100 watts, so it seems they are cutting corners somewhere.

 

[klrman]

Just got my Osram bulbs and yes, they are brighter, but my guess would be by about 20% at most. Not double the brightness that I thought they would be. Not worth the extra money for me, but wanted to try them. Their 900 lumen claim for the 40 watt halogen convinced me to try them, but they sure don't feel like 900 lumen. So for the posters in here that suggested they won't be that bright......yep, your right, they are not any where near as bright as they market them to be, They're not much brighter, but my wallet feels much lighter

 

[ponygt65]

Sorry to hear of hte 'overall' disappointed. At least we know though.