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mCree XR-E (& Seoul P4) lights, reflectors and notes...

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McGizmo

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Hi guys,
I want to set up a reference thread here where I can accumulate some information, images and observations regarding the new XR-E LED and some of its applications I am involved in.

The A19-XR-E is making its way to market through the shoppe. I have a Ti Proto myself:
McRee-Ti-A19-XR-E.jpg


The first light I will be offering is a Ti mCree XR19 with a Ti clickie power pack:

Ti-mCree-XR19-Click.jpg


I also have some other XR-E based reflectors on order and in transit at the time of this typing.

The closest beam comparison I have been able to make with Luxeon based lights is between the XR19 above (525 mA) and a stock SF L6 with 5W. A daylight beam comparison:

beam-L6-XR19-525mA.jpg


These and other images and observations can be found on an off forum web page, HERE. I will come back and add to this thread as time and reason dictate. I think I will lock it so it will be more of a mono-blog but questions and comments can be carried on elsewhere in the forum. :eek:
 
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McGizmo

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Re: mCree XR-E lights, reflectors and notes...

I have added some beam shot comparisons (same manual exposure on all shots) HERE. I also added some new images of reflector ideas on the off forum page linked to above. One "interesting" idea shown below:

3-Shooter.jpg


The idea of a side shooter is not new I am certain and clustering LED's on a post with their own reflector section is not new. Others on CPF have considered these ideas and I aided Newbie in one very similar project of his conception. I first played with a side shooter assembly with a small Nichia SMD LED last year. The narrow viewing angle of the XR-E coupled with its "low" apparent image location seems to make it an ideal candidate for side shooter assembly. In terms of being first, my only claim may be in being first to pony up some bucks for prototypes based on the XR-E LED with no idea of viability. :D (or idea of what to do with them)
 

McGizmo

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Below is a beam shot comparison of a modified Aleph2 (McR-20) XR- bottom and an Aleph19-XR -top (both driven by GD700's):

A2-McR-20-XR--A-19XR-GD700.jpg


I also took an Aleph3 and modified it to host a Cree XR-E:

A3--A3-XR.jpg


Beam comparison of these two with the Aleph 3-XR the lower beam shot:

Aleph3-Alep3-XR.jpg


When managing the photons with a reflector, the real gain in flux is realized in the spill portion of the beam with these XR-E LED's.
 
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McGizmo

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Re: mCree XR-E lights, reflectors and notes...

I need to get somewhat up to speed on the big mag lights due to some pending collaboration work with Dat2zip and Modamag (sp) so I asked my wife to grab a couple for me at the store. As luck would have it, the 3 shooter reflector and pedestal/sink drop right into the Mag head with no need of modification of any of the parts. I used one of Dat2Zip's Shark drivers which easily fit into a simple mod:

Mag3D-3Shooter.jpg


Now this is a stock 3D Mag and I limited the input current to 3 amps at 3 volts in. This mod measures 8000 lux at one meter with the plastic window in place wheras I recall measuring around 10000 lux with the same LED's and reflector (sans window) when driven at 700 mA.

Beam comparison below of an Aleph 19XR GD700 vs this reflector/ LED package (sans window) driven at 700 mA:

A-19XR-GD700--3-SHooter-700mA.jpg


Those familiar with the spot and spill intensity of the A-19 XR can likely appreciate the comparison here of both spot sizes and intensities of relative spot beams and spill portions.
 

McGizmo

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Re: mCree XR-E lights, reflectors and notes...

I finally got to use a few of the McR-17XR's. 7 of them to be exact:

SF-M6-XR-Module.jpg


SF-M6-7UP-head-on.jpg


The host is a SF M6 and the LED's are driven in series at 350 mA by one of Wayne's Shark converters. Beam shot comparing this mod on the bottom with the Mag 3 shooter on top:

Mag3shooter630-SF-M6-7up-350.jpg


I measured 7000 lux with this 7UP at one meter where the Mag 3 shooter clocked 8000 lux. Similar spot beam sizes and angles but the Mag 3 shooter has a larger and more conventional spill which is not so apparent in the beam shot. What is apparent is the narrower and significantly brighter spill of the 7UP. (tree is about 33' from the lights)
 

McGizmo

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Re: mCree XR-E lights, reflectors and notes...

Observations:
  1. The apparent image of the XR-E is about at the very base of the package
  2. The ceramic package of the XR-E seems to allow for even and quick distribution of heat throughout.
  3. The lead solder pads on the bottom of the LED can be isolated from the LED itself
  4. With a side shooter orientation, it seems a longer focal length is needed for similar colimation angle compared to a forward shooting LED (spot beam angle) Not having two half reflectors of long focal length......
I decided to incoporate these observations in a test piece that relied on them for proper function in a single reflector:

O-U-Pedestal.jpg


O-U-Reflector.jpg


O-U-WallBeam.jpg


The two XR-E LED's are joined back to back with solder paste bonding their bottoms. Solder paste was also generously applied within the milled pocket of the brass pedestal. The back end of the pair is solder bonded to the pedestal in the bottom of the pocket and there is a solder fillet joining the metal lens rings to the pedestal as well. By touch, the exposed ends of the LED's are no warmer than the brass pedestal so the thermal transfer seems to be reasonably effective. The pair are driven in series by a Shark driver running at a constant current output of 700 mA. At 1 meter, the turbo head measures 10,000 lux.

Vertical VS horizontal orientation:

O-U-Vert-Horiz.jpg
 
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McGizmo

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Re: mCree XR-E lights, reflectors and notes...

Another 7UP mod with a pot for volume control:

MakitaMod.jpg


reflectors.jpg


detail-2.jpg


No window yet but without it, lux ranges from 1100 to 19,000 at one meter. These are P2 bin and the max drive current is 1 amp. At a drive of 700 mA, the lux was around 17,000 and the converter pulls .9 amp at 18 volts. Fresh of the charger, the battery measures 21 V. The 1100 min lux is on a fresh charge. As the voltage of he batery drops to 18 (if it does) the low level access will also drop as would the lux.
 

McGizmo

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Re: mCree XR-E ( & Seoul P4) lights, reflectors and notes...

The Cree chip, EZ1000 used in their own package, the XR-E LED is also being used by other LED manufacturers. The Seoul P4 is one such LED and it has great market potental based on its more familiar package geometry as well as a lambertian distribution of light output. Like previous generation Seoul LED's in similar packaging, the image location is below that of the similar Luxeon and optics must be adjusted accordingly. It's cool now to have two options with great light output! :D

Some new Seoul P4 hosts:

SeoulBuddies.jpg


I think a good example of the differences can be viewed in the beam shot below where an Aleph 3 with XR-E and DB917 is top and an Aleph 3 with Seoul P4 is bottom image. (The A3-XR-E has a restricted spill diameter compared to the A3-P4 due to a deep Ti bezel ring. Had I been paying attention to such matters, I would have had stock bezel rings on both lights for the comparison.

A3XR-A3S.jpg


The Cree XR-E is likely to loose much of its steam due to the more friendly P4 but I think it still has its own niche and due to exploiting its narrower viewing angle and low image location. That is to say in a small diameter reflector, you can shape a Cree's beam in manners not available from the other LED's. As an example of this, the beam shot below has two similar sized lights, top is a XR19-C and bottom is a PD with Seoul P4. The images were taken on different days but with the same manual setting on the camera and light position and target are identical. In the case of the XR19, the camera was probably a foot closer to the light.

19XR-PD-S.jpg


I am starting to compile some images and observations on my web site, HERE.

I have decided for a number of reasons to go forward with the Ti 27 heads hosting the Seoul P4 instead of the XR-E. The Seoul puts more of its light off axis where it is available for the reflector to collimate it and I feel the 27 reflector is well suited for this and likely a bit more appropriate for most users. The Ti 27 head was originally intended as host to a Luxeon LED and it is an easier modification to have it host the Seoul compared to the Cree XR-E. The Seoul also presents better on a white wall with a smoother transition from spot to spill.

Below is a wall shot comparison between an XR27-C (Right) and a S27-C (Left)

S27-CvsXR27-C-WallBeam.jpg


There is a difference between these two lights but the pros and cons are mostly of a subjective nature, IMHO. I had to decide to build with one or the other LED as going with both is too much to contend with. I like the greater difference between the XR19 and S27 beams and feel the two compliment each other better than if I had kept with the Cree XR-E in the 27. :shrug:

Although Seoul claims a higher flux from the EZ1000 than Cree does, it is difficult for any of us to know where the truth may really lie. It may be that Seoul has a more efficient phosphor package than Cree or it may be that the method of measuring and picking a number to claim is different. Kind of tough taking the same die and hosting it in the two packages for a real comparison! :green:

At any rate, the Seoul is the real deal and it uses the wonderful EZ1000 as its core.

I have modded both an Aleph 3 and a HD45 with Seoul P4's and DB917 converters and both of these lights clear the 10k lux barrier.

In general, aside from the Seoul slug being anode and in need of isolation from the electrical circuit, the only other issue in replacing a Luxeon with a Seoul is the need to elevate the Seoul relative to the optic. From a number of bench tests I have done, it looks like about a .030" difference compared to the Luxeon III Jokers. At anyrate, I have built a number of different lights and mods using this adjustment and the resulting beam has been very acceptable if not optimal in lux. I came up with the same offset using a large aspherical lens infront of both the LuxIII and Seoul P4.

In regards to the Aleph system, Wayne and I have come up with some simple solutions that will be detailed further by him and when he chooses to do so. A proper LE hosting a P4 can be screwed into an Aleph 1 or Aleph3 requiring no modification to the reflector or head. In the case of an Aleph 2 with the McR-20, .030" needs to be removed from the rear of the reflector. I do have both McR-20-S and McR-27-S reflectors on order and will get them first of the year. I plan to switch over with the remaining aluminum PD sets as well as the 27LT to the Seoul P4. I have plenty of U flux bin LED's for these lights and all I need is time and reflectors to go about it. I don't want to wait on the Ti S27 heads and I have already modified existing 27 mm reflectors for some of these and am in process of building out some of the heads. As soon as I get some Ti C or PD power paks in, I will be able to once again offer some XR19's as well as the S27's.

S27-C-reflector.jpg


S27-C-splash.jpg


With Cree at the core, I guess the S27 is still a mCree light or is it a McSeoul light? Or does it matter a stinking bit?!?! :nana:
 
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McGizmo

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CreeBar integrated with Makita 18V Li-Ion battery for portable applicatons:

Makita-7UPs.jpg


RGB-Makita.jpg


New multi level Shark driver used for three level output.
 
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