Okay, someone explain the MDC HTL to me. I looked around and didn't see any discussion on this new offering from Gene. I suppose my question is, why not just offer the higher CRI LED in the 16650 size MDC? I get you have the extra capacity of an 18650 in the HTL, but… Don't get me wrong, I've signed up for stock notifications lol. Just looking for discussion as I've been away from the forums for way too long.
MDC HTL
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ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
Just basically has DFT threads and has a larger diameter opening.
There's a lot of things Gene does that does not make sense to me. Main one is the voltage of 3.7-9v on MDC heads with no LVP and lack of bodies to even run multiple li-ions on, not to mention the ugly green SST20 he uses.
Very inefficient running a single li-ion cell as well
There's a lot of things Gene does that does not make sense to me. Main one is the voltage of 3.7-9v on MDC heads with no LVP and lack of bodies to even run multiple li-ions on, not to mention the ugly green SST20 he uses.
Very inefficient running a single li-ion cell as well
Schokokeks
Enlightened
I'm cancelling my membership to your fan club!
I REALLY like the SST-20, and I prefer a slight green to a slight pink. Unless I'm comparing it side-by-side to a Nichia, I don't even notice the green tint. But, I only use the neutral and warm SST-20. I have heard the 5000K+ ones are very, very green.
But, also, I sometimes remind myself that companies often create products with demand, regardless of if that makes sense for me. If Gene gets enough people asking, he'll probably make it, and these sold out really quick, so there is obviously some demand out there.
Being DFT thread pattern, I'm wondering if that means it can take the Turbo heads from Scout lights and the EDC1 and EDC2-DFT. If that's the case, I could maybe see why people would find these very neat; I could turn my EDC1-DFT into an 18650 MDC, and then have a 3-mode 18350 HTL head.
Can someone confirm this? That actually does sound pretty neat, haha.
Random Dan
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
- Messages
- 1,388
I thought about buying one, but I think I'd rather hold out for a 519a. I'd also really like it if he made an 18350 body as well as 18650.
ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
Haha. Yes I'm sure there's demand for it if Gene fulfills certain contracts to law enforcement or whatever. Just after trying and using so many LEDs over the years, it's hard for me to enjoy the SST20 when comparing it to Nichias. I wish at least he could have the option for a Nichia in his led list. Most people who buy his lights don't really care about the LEDs tint or CRI, which is totally fine, however after many years on this sub and r/flashlight, many people want Nichia Malkoffs. They are available from Kosen, but cost like 75% more just to have that nice led. I'm confused on that business model, but hey it's his business he can do what he wants. I really like Malkoff, I'm just lost on the lack of options or features that could make the lights insanely good. Some titanium models would be really nice!
My only issues are the lack of LVP, no dual fuel, voltage range is strange, not a great choice in LEDs except the 3000k SST20 which I wish was available in his MDC heads (I've asked him if he would make that happen and said it's not going to), and the low on the 3 mode li-ion heads is way too bright
I've heard the DFT fitting on Surefires is possible but there has been issues of the head creating a gap between the body.
He definitely needs an 18350 body for his DFT threads
My only issues are the lack of LVP, no dual fuel, voltage range is strange, not a great choice in LEDs except the 3000k SST20 which I wish was available in his MDC heads (I've asked him if he would make that happen and said it's not going to), and the low on the 3 mode li-ion heads is way too bright
I've heard the DFT fitting on Surefires is possible but there has been issues of the head creating a gap between the body.
He definitely needs an 18350 body for his DFT threads
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2020
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- 1,312
Also the on-time mode reset to low…
Schokokeks
Enlightened
I'd pretty much agree.
I think the SST-20 is a tad throwier (and, I do prefer the slightly less distinct hotspot of the SST vs Nichia), which is nice, but I think the reality is his lights are primarily for duty folks, and it just so happens that us flashlight nerds appreciate the products, too. While the dream of Convoy flexibility for Malkoff quality at Malkoff prices is probably too good to be true, I understand the hope, haha. For what it's worth, I know he WILL do pretty much whatever you want, if you do the group buy.
I'd wager this is the double edge of Malkoff being a small shop. It's probably a LOT easier if he has a down day to sit down and "assembly line" a bunch of SST-20's onto some heads versus individually doing each head per order. I guarantee he does that with bodies. I DOUBT he has an individual machine set up and jigged for EACH body type, so I'd bet he has one or two machines, and just does decent runs. I think that balance of production efficiency is how he can offer such insane value for the money. While his products are more expensive than most, his quality is up there (and above) brands that charge 2-4 times as much. If he did small batches, he'd probably have to really slow down production, which is likely just not feasible...and he'd probably have to double his prices, which puts him really out of reach for some random beat cop or security guard looking for a more reliable option than what they were issued.
It's often a shame that "duty light users" in the U.S. are still using CR123 batteries. Most of the Made in USA brands cater to duty users, not enthusiasts, so voltages and options are geared around them. I know Malkoff doesn't use LVP cause you WANT to drain every last mAh out of a $3 CR123A battery. I know some fancier lights are supposed to detect if it's a CR123 or not, but I also know those sometimes make mistakes, and Malkoffs are meant for people who can't have mistakes. Simple = reliable. His voltage ranges PRIMARILY focus on CR123 combos, and SOMETIMES that happens to overlap with Li-ion ones. I sometimes feel like the odd man out, because I NEVER got into CR123 nor incandescents (too wasteful for my tastes), so I DESPISE the idea of a gradual, long taper in output - yet, others run Malkoffs in a configuration to create that.
I have mostly kept away from the MDC head ecosystem. I know they have better thermal properties, but Malkoff doesn't overdrive his stuff, so its less of an issue...and that lets me use a VME or MDX head with a drop-in, BECAUSE of the lack of options. I don't mind the lower CRI IF it's still neutral (his neutral XP-L's are I think 80 CRI, but look beautiful). The MDC AA is about the exception, BECAUSE I think the mode spacing is so good. I don't even like the M361, because I cannot tell M from H indoors, haha.
It's a shame it looks like they took a long time to sell out (a sign of low demand), but the 18500 and 18350 bodies that had been sold in the For Sale subforum are REALLY nice, and are very, very fun. Instead of going into $$$ 3P and 6P Surefire options, I just have one of each of those. That's USUALLY how I run my 14500 lights (with a sleeve). You still get to use the High/Low ring, and they make for a GREAT light with a tricap.
I think the SST-20 is a tad throwier (and, I do prefer the slightly less distinct hotspot of the SST vs Nichia), which is nice, but I think the reality is his lights are primarily for duty folks, and it just so happens that us flashlight nerds appreciate the products, too. While the dream of Convoy flexibility for Malkoff quality at Malkoff prices is probably too good to be true, I understand the hope, haha. For what it's worth, I know he WILL do pretty much whatever you want, if you do the group buy.
I'd wager this is the double edge of Malkoff being a small shop. It's probably a LOT easier if he has a down day to sit down and "assembly line" a bunch of SST-20's onto some heads versus individually doing each head per order. I guarantee he does that with bodies. I DOUBT he has an individual machine set up and jigged for EACH body type, so I'd bet he has one or two machines, and just does decent runs. I think that balance of production efficiency is how he can offer such insane value for the money. While his products are more expensive than most, his quality is up there (and above) brands that charge 2-4 times as much. If he did small batches, he'd probably have to really slow down production, which is likely just not feasible...and he'd probably have to double his prices, which puts him really out of reach for some random beat cop or security guard looking for a more reliable option than what they were issued.
It's often a shame that "duty light users" in the U.S. are still using CR123 batteries. Most of the Made in USA brands cater to duty users, not enthusiasts, so voltages and options are geared around them. I know Malkoff doesn't use LVP cause you WANT to drain every last mAh out of a $3 CR123A battery. I know some fancier lights are supposed to detect if it's a CR123 or not, but I also know those sometimes make mistakes, and Malkoffs are meant for people who can't have mistakes. Simple = reliable. His voltage ranges PRIMARILY focus on CR123 combos, and SOMETIMES that happens to overlap with Li-ion ones. I sometimes feel like the odd man out, because I NEVER got into CR123 nor incandescents (too wasteful for my tastes), so I DESPISE the idea of a gradual, long taper in output - yet, others run Malkoffs in a configuration to create that.
I have mostly kept away from the MDC head ecosystem. I know they have better thermal properties, but Malkoff doesn't overdrive his stuff, so its less of an issue...and that lets me use a VME or MDX head with a drop-in, BECAUSE of the lack of options. I don't mind the lower CRI IF it's still neutral (his neutral XP-L's are I think 80 CRI, but look beautiful). The MDC AA is about the exception, BECAUSE I think the mode spacing is so good. I don't even like the M361, because I cannot tell M from H indoors, haha.
It's a shame it looks like they took a long time to sell out (a sign of low demand), but the 18500 and 18350 bodies that had been sold in the For Sale subforum are REALLY nice, and are very, very fun. Instead of going into $$$ 3P and 6P Surefire options, I just have one of each of those. That's USUALLY how I run my 14500 lights (with a sleeve). You still get to use the High/Low ring, and they make for a GREAT light with a tricap.
Johnny Ryall
Newly Enlightened
from what I understand/told Gene doesn't do wholesale or resale accounts, he's basically buying them and add a little meat on the bone to cover costs. it is a weird biz plan but it seems to be working.
ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
Does anyone else actually like the 3 mode 30/200/600 levels? For me personally, I absolutely hate it. I think it sucks in every way. 30 lumen can do the job of 200, 200 can do the job of 600.
The 1-2v AA has the best mode spacing out there. If only these li-ion heads were similar as in a .08/30/600 or something within that output range. It would be the best all rounder that could use late at nights and during the day.
The 1-2v AA has the best mode spacing out there. If only these li-ion heads were similar as in a .08/30/600 or something within that output range. It would be the best all rounder that could use late at nights and during the day.
Schokokeks
Enlightened
It's really no different than when people here run a group buy. Kosen has to front the entire cost and risk of buying everything. He doesn't get any discounts for a group buy (so, he's paying full MSRP), and probably needs to add a bit on to cover the inevitable cost of sitting on some products for a bit, and anything logistical.
I'm not even sure if he's doing it primarily as business, or just simply to try and consolidated Malkoff fans into a single group buy website, haha. I can't imagine he's turning much, if any profit once you factor in time.
I think this is also why the Illumn 219B drop-ins stay out of stock for so long; it's a minimum of 25 to get a group buy...and, it can take a good while to sell off 25 M31LL's or something similarly niche.
I can't agree more.
I find the high/low rings in a similar configuration is infinitely better than the LMH. An M61L (in warm or neutral) with a high/low in a MD1 or MD1.5 is fantastic. Sure, it's only two modes, but I get a something like 20 lumens and 200, and it's so much easier to cycle modes and predict where I am BEFORE I turn it on.
The MDC AA is really, really perfectly spaced.
ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm not a fan of the 3 mode but I understand Gene can't do a 2 mode because of Surefires patent on the heads and switch (which I think is BS). He can get around that with that high/low ring on the MD series. So I get why he has to do the 3 mode, just wish spacing was different.
Schokokeks
Enlightened
Theoretically, 3 modes is even better than two, and if you have a real low low, then a medium, and then full power, that's kind of great.
For me, the low is too high, and the medium is far too high. I think the current low should be about the medium.
For me, the low is too high, and the medium is far too high. I think the current low should be about the medium.
Johnny Ryall
Newly Enlightened
yeah I know how it works but once you go higher than those group buys, steady orders and have a biz license it should be considered a wholesale biz especially if you fronting the money or getting net 30, I think its a side hustle but still the whole point of a side hustle is to make extra money, hell sometimes my side hustle makes more than my main hustle.
Schokokeks
Enlightened
I don't know if he's really got steady orders and/or orders more than the group buys, though.
You might be overestimating it. Whenever I've contacted them, it's one dude. He ships everything from his apartment in NY via USPS flat rate boxes. From my interactions, he strikes me as MOSTLY just "taking one for the team" and fronting the cash to run group buys. I'm sure he's making a modest amount of money, but the math doesn't look like he's crushing it. I think, more than making money, he seems to be trying not to eat a huge loss with an unpopular product...that he has to sit on 20+ items in inventory forever...
Dicaeopolis
Enlightened
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
- Messages
- 278
I was on the fence about buying the HTL, but did, and I use it every night at my job. I used to carry the Hound Dog 18650 as my back up light, but the HTL replaced it. My main light is the XPL 16650, but sometimes I need a little more throw and I wanted the HTL so if my 16650 battery goes down I can use the low HTL mode to still read things close up. One handed operation is preferred for me at work, so I wanted the push button modes. I could turn the head on my other lights, but this is much easier for me at work. I guess it just depends on each persons needs.
ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
SST20
The CRI ranges are aligned with the SST20 used elsewhere in the portfolio, but 50 cd/lm from a ~24mm optic isn't realistic for a domed 2mm^2 source (which is what the SST20 is). I'd guess it's either a domed 1mm^2 source, or a flat-top 2mm^2 source, but driven at roughly 2.2A. Given that 3-stripe 3535 packages are used in all the other Malkoff lights with known LED types, I'd guess that LED here is an SST12. The only catch with that part is that while the 70CRI variants are rated for that much current, the 95CRI variants are only rated for 1.5A.
I'll also add that the SST12 has a round die, so should project a round hotspot from a narrow optic, vs. the more typical square hotspot.
ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
Would be nice if he would just list the LED
Schokokeks
Enlightened
You could probably e-mail Gene about it, and even ask him to put it on the site.
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