MDs Lithium-Ion > Incandescent guide + compatability/comparison chart

mdocod

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
That's a mistake, good catch.

The run-times on the single IMR16340 should be about 1/3rd of that which is listed.

When I was building the charts, and updating, I would often copy/paste sections and just go in and edit the numbers, apparently, I missed one. Woops!

Eric
 

JCD

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
892
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

If anyone can think of ANY information you would like to see in this guide, I would really like to include it.

I would be very interested to see LiFePO4 cells added, since they are high current, but low voltage. In particular, I'm wondering if they will work in applications in which IMR16340 cells work, but 16340 LiCo cells will not. It would be great if I could run these with my P91 in Surefire 2 cell hosts. Thanks.
 

Nite

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
845
Location
NYC and Long Island
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

I would be very interested to see LiFePO4 cells added, since they are high current, but low voltage. In particular, I'm wondering if they will work in applications in which IMR16340 cells work, but 16340 LiCo cells will not. It would be great if I could run these with my P91 in Surefire 2 cell hosts. Thanks.


NO you cant...

LIFEPO4 have 1/3rd less energy than LiCO. SO do IMR16340, but the Discharge rate of IMR 16340 is fantastic.
 

JCD

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
892
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

NO you cant...

LIFEPO4 have 1/3rd less energy than LiCO. SO do IMR16340, but the Discharge rate of IMR 16340 is fantastic.

Can I ask where you found that information? As I understand, the maximum safe discharge rate (relative to cell capacity) of LiFePO4 cells is as high or higher than with LiMn cells. AW posted tests of his LiFePO4 cells being discharged at rates up to 10 C (5 A) in this post.
 

Nite

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
845
Location
NYC and Long Island
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

Can I ask where you found that information? As I understand, the maximum safe discharge rate (relative to cell capacity) of LiFePO4 cells is as high or higher than with LiMn cells. AW posted tests of his LiFePO4 cells being discharged at rates up to 10 C (5 A) in this post.

I may have been mistaken I had no idea, or forgot that LiFEPO4 had a discharge rate comparable to LIMR.

I wonder why it wasn't used more widely like IMR is now, in so many more sizes.:confused:

wow that link is from 4yrs ago no wonder i missed it.

I wonder why Lifepo4 wont burn out my GFs LED but an IMR will. less voltage sag?
 
Last edited:

JCD

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
892
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

I wonder why Lifepo4 wont burn out my GFs LED but an IMR will. less voltage sag?

Perhaps it's due to the lower voltage of the LiFePO4 cells compared to the IMR cells?
 

mdocod

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

While lithium iron phosphate, and especially the lithium nano iron phosphate cells are typically good for very high current applications, The 16340 size cells in this chemistry really haven't proven to be anything special. They can handle heavy loads safely but they are not as low resistance per volume as their larger counterparts.

From what I have seen, most of them take a complete nose dive above 2 amps.

----

As for running a P91 on them: You could run 2 and get maybe an average 150 torch lumen for maybe 6 minutes. Or you could run 3 and likely pop the bulb off a fresh charge. There just aren't any common tactical lamps I am aware of that are going to work properly on any configuration of LiFePO4 cells.

The IMR16340s are amazing by comparison, competent to loads exceeding 3 amps and higher voltage than LiFePO4. In fact, when dealing with high power applications, the IMR16340s actually catch up to and exceed the energy density of CR123 primary cells.

When we look at larger cells, like 18650 and up in LiFePO4 chemistry, the picture starts to get more interesting. If we pair them up to the proper bi-pin lamps, or regulate them somehow, they are often capable of loads of 10-20C and higher with very little sag and capacity loss. Not to mention, remarkable cycle life even when operated at aggressive charge and discharge rates.

----

Nite said:
Hey MD when are you going to update the guides?

Good question, I guess it's one of those things that I will have to get to when I get to, lol... Lots of new information I would love to include in both the guide and chart sections. I may actually just make a completely new thread, considering how much has changed in the years since it was originally written.

Eric
 
Last edited:

qandeel

Active member
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
32
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

Eric

This is a great thread. I really learned a lot from it. Many thanks for the great efforts and the time dedicated to create this useful guide.


Good question, I guess it's one of those things that I will have to get to when I get to, lol... Lots of new information I would love to include in both the guide and chart sections. I may actually just make a completely new thread, considering how much has changed in the years since it was originally written.

Eric

Is their a new thread already? If there is any, please kindly provide the link.

Thanks
 

mdocod

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
Re: Mdocod's Lithium-Ion>Incandecent guide

Hi qandeel,

No new thread, sorry :(

Maybe this winter if I get "stuck" in front of the computer for a few days waiting for a blizzard to pass I'll spend some time on that.

Eric
 

S&W

New member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
3
I'm new to the flashlight world and I was wondering if Ultrafire 3.6V 880mah Protected Li-Ion Rechargeable Batteries would be good with a 4Sevens Quark 123² tactical flaslight with the R2 emmiter. The head is rated at 9.0v Max and I want to know if these are good or if there are better ones to use. Thanks
 

mdocod

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
Are the AW Lico protected cell runtimes until the protection circuit kicks in?

Everything is an on-paper estimate. It's rough, it's a ballpark.

When the protection circuit on protected LiCo cell trips, the cell is depleted.

The runtime estimates are based on the estimated usable capacity of the cell/s, or until the cell/s is/are depleted.

Eric
 

mdocod

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
7,544
Location
COLORado spRINGs
I'm new to the flashlight world and I was wondering if Ultrafire 3.6V 880mah Protected Li-Ion Rechargeable Batteries would be good with a 4Sevens Quark 123² tactical flaslight with the R2 emmiter. The head is rated at 9.0v Max and I want to know if these are good or if there are better ones to use. Thanks

Hi S&W,

Welcome to CPF!

Head over to the Electronics/Batteries part of the forum. There you will find dozens of threads aimed at comparing modern RCR123 cells. The quark should work fine on just about any of them, but a little research before the buy would be worth it.

Keep in mind, that regardless of what the label says, all RCR123s are ~500-650mAH.

Best of luck in your search.

Eric
 

recDNA

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
8,757
So SF P91 with 2 x AW protected 18500 is a good combo for the bulb and the batteries?
 

Nite

Well-known member
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
845
Location
NYC and Long Island
So SF P91 with 2 x AW protected 18500 is a good combo for the bulb and the batteries?

That would be awesome! It was my first 9Volt tactical.. I used it to deter would be muggers.
That will greatly overdrive the bulb, giving 500-700 lumens? The bulb would blacken quickly. last alot less than 25 hours

You might prefer a WA 1111 or a FM 1794 with those two cells for more brightness and longer bulb life. they will last what seems like months of normal use. One is halogen the other xenon

check Luxluthors destructive incandescent bulb tests

search for threads started by luxluthor
 

Bullzeyebill

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
12,145
Location
CA
You might prefer a WA 1111 or a FM 1794 with those two cells for more brightness and longer bulb life. they will last what seems like months of normal use. One is halogen the other xenon

I am thinking that the FM 1794 has a mix of Halogen added to the Xenon. Am I wrong here?

Bill
 
Top