Modified TN31

JohnGalway

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
116
Location
Conamara, Republic of Ireland
It was a valid question as my stock tn31 will only effectively light up to about 350 while the claimed throw is a lot more than that.

I've a stock TN31 and I can see out over 700 yards with it. When I say "see" I mean I can see where there's a river running through the bog down the valley, I can see the outlines of lakes in the bog etc. I've no doubt at all that a foxes eyes would reflect at that range.

I did order the neutral white for better colour rendition in my stock tn31, lol I'm a bit shattered to hear you say the cool may throw further lol.

I've both stock versions, the cool white does indeed throw further. Only had the neutral white out one night - think a friend might be buying it - I wanted the TN31 just as a spotter so the tint LED doesn't make much odds to me.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
I've a stock TN31 and I can see out over 700 yards with it. When I say "see" I mean I can see where there's a river running through the bog down the valley, I can see the outlines of lakes in the bog etc. I've no doubt at all that a foxes eyes would reflect at that range.



I've both stock versions, the cool white does indeed throw further. Only had the neutral white out one night - think a friend might be buying it - I wanted the TN31 just as a spotter so the tint LED doesn't make much odds to me.

For search and rescue, etc, I have found the tint hardly matters, as night adapted eyes can't see color really anyway...and overall, throwing further finds more than less throw with better color rendition.

For closer work, esp before adaptation, the tint can make things look better.

:D
 

JohnGalway

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
116
Location
Conamara, Republic of Ireland
For search and rescue, etc, I have found the tint hardly matters, as night adapted eyes can't see color really anyway...and overall, throwing further finds more than less throw with better color rendition.

For closer work, esp before adaptation, the tint can make things look better.

:D

No idea about SAR work. I use mine for Search & Destroy :twothumbs Due to the land I shoot over, the farther out I can see a foxes eyes the better, we often need to reposition to take a shot and it's not easy ground to travel over.

The tint, well, I walked through a place that holds a lot of rabbits (surprisingly few foxes). I could see rabbits and their eye shine with the neutral tint possibly three times as distant as I could with the cool white tint. But, I found the cool white will certainly throw raw light farther.

It just depends on the application the user has in mind I 'spose.

I'll try them out side by side again, but the moon is coming ahead well now so the nights will be getting a lot brighter.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
No idea about SAR work. I use mine for Search & Destroy :twothumbs Due to the land I shoot over, the farther out I can see a foxes eyes the better, we often need to reposition to take a shot and it's not easy ground to travel over.

The tint, well, I walked through a place that holds a lot of rabbits (surprisingly few foxes). I could see rabbits and their eye shine with the neutral tint possibly three times as distant as I could with the cool white tint. But, I found the cool white will certainly throw raw light farther.

It just depends on the application the user has in mind I 'spose.

I'll try them out side by side again, but the moon is coming ahead well now so the nights will be getting a lot brighter.


THREE TIMES FURTHER?

OK, your rabbits are not like the rabbits over here.

:D


The rabbits here don't have the tapetum lucidum that the fox do, etc...but both glow red when you hit them with a light.
 
Last edited:

JohnGalway

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
116
Location
Conamara, Republic of Ireland
I don't mean to say that the neutral tint shines three times as far as the cool white tint, I mean picking out finer detail.

The cool white will throw a colour light that washes out natural colours. With the effect rabbits are hard to see, even against very tightly grazed grass, their eye shine is also hard to see.

The neutral white throws a colour light that doesn't wash out natural colours. So rabbits are easier to see because they're rabbit coloured, and the grass is grass coloured. I've also found their eye shine easier to see using the neutral tint.

I've found it's easier to track a rabbit running around with the neutral white than the cool white TN31 (both stock). The cool white just seems to destroy the colour detail. But I picked the cool white over the neutral white for the distance, CW throws farther to my eyes, and rabbits are an animal I can pick off at will with other lamps/daylight.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
THREE TIMES THOUGH?!

:D

I mean, without a scope, in day light...a rabbit is not easy to see 400 - 600 meters away. Heck, at 200 meters I might miss one being there. :D

Using a light other than the sun doesn't improve this, but I agree that, with certain colors, the contrast between fur and grass, etc...would be better with a warmer tint. If its just the red eye shine though...as the rabbits don't HAVE tapetum, its just the red blood vessels lit up, similar to red eye for us in a camera shot, etc...

I'll refine that...a warmer tint alone is not it, its the color rendition. Some warm lights are no better at color rendition, browns and greens can be hard to distinguish for example.

...so I have NOT seen that a rabbits red eye is three times easier to see with a warmer tint...fur, yes...its easier, but I'd be hard pressed to say that the rabbit could be 3x further off and be seen the same, etc.


When my eyes are night adapted...I find I don't REALLY see color. My mind's eye fills in the colors, much as we all do if watching a black and white movie.

I tested this. I took a red coat and a green coat...two very different colors, and wore one of them. I had a buddy who only saw me in the green coat. We were out at night, and I went off out of site, and changed to the red coat.

On the radio, I asked him to tell me when he could see me in his light (~ 500 meters range).

I waked out into the field of view, and he radio'd he saw me.

I asked if he could see what color I was wearing...he said black pants and a green coat.

It was the same black pants, but he couldn't tell the green coat from the red coat. It was SUPPOSED to be green, so, his mind processed the coat as green...even though it was red.

In reality, it was GRAY or at least something besides red OR green to him. Obviously, he did not SEE the real color...as with night adapted eyes, you see very little color at all...its mostly rods gathering what little light is out there.


I imagine its the same way a deer doesn't notice the day glo orange vest on the hunter.

:D
 

langham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
441
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
This effect has a name, can't remember it off the top of my head. There is an entire thread about the way your eyes perceive light. I think the important thing we should get out of all of this is that Saabluster came on here and said that he was working on a new and improved version of the TN31. Not that some one obviously misspoke, and please if you are shooting anything at 600m or so don't do it anywhere near Chattanooga, TN because I am a crack shot what the military calls an expert, but I don't trust myself at those ranges and unless you are a trained sniper I am not sure that you should either. I think the farthest that I have ever shot accurately was 300m prone with an M16 and iron sights, not something I enjoyed doing, but that was during the day with no wind and 15 people making sure that the firing line was clear.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
This effect has a name, can't remember it off the top of my head. There is an entire thread about the way your eyes perceive light. I think the important thing we should get out of all of this is that Saabluster came on here and said that he was working on a new and improved version of the TN31. Not that some one obviously misspoke, and please if you are shooting anything at 600m or so don't do it anywhere near Chattanooga, TN because I am a crack shot what the military calls an expert, but I don't trust myself at those ranges and unless you are a trained sniper I am not sure that you should either. I think the farthest that I have ever shot accurately was 300m prone with an M16 and iron sights, not something I enjoyed doing, but that was during the day with no wind and 15 people making sure that the firing line was clear.

I taught marksmanship back in the 70's.

:D

You can hit stuff a long way off if you know how to compensate for all the funny things going on between you, and your target. Its just a lot harder at night...your fovea, the narrow part of your vision that you need to see the most detail (You instinctively squint to reduce your field of view TO that narrow cone of vision when trying to resolve detail)...SUCKS in low light.

Sometimes, when its dark enough, and your eyes are night adapted, you can look right AT a target, and not SEE it...but, if you look to the SIDE of the target, you CAN see it...OUTSIDE of the fovea's cone of vision. The fovea has mostly cones...which are terrible in low light compared to rods...but, around it, are plenty of rods. So, if you look to the side of what you want to see (use peripheral vision) you can acquire targets that are otherwise invisible.

:D


Which all means that the Saab Blasters' throw monster with neutral tint is going to be quite useful, as you may not NEED night adapted eyes; You can supply day light as needed.

:D
 
Last edited:

Ceya!

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
67
I taught marksmanship back in the 70's.

:D

You can hit stuff a long way off if you know how to compensate for all the funny things going on between you, and your target. Its just a lot harder at night...your fovea, the narrow part of your vision that you need to see the most detail (You instinctively squint to reduce your field of view TO that narrow cone of vision when trying to resolve detail)...SUCKS in low light.

Sometimes, when its dark enough, and your eyes are night adapted, you can look right AT a target, and not SEE it...but, if you look to the SIDE of the target, you CAN see it...OUTSIDE of the fovea's cone of vision. The fovea has mostly cones...which are terrible in low light compared to rods...but, around it, are plenty of rods. So, if you look to the side of what you want to see (use peripheral vision) you can acquire targets that are otherwise invisible.

:D

Yep, your so right.
Low light shooting sucks.

Been through triple canopy in Okinawa and a few others.

Thing can be right in front of you and bang, smack into a tree.

Looking to the side and focus you see it all.

S/F,
CEYA!
 

JohnGalway

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
116
Location
Conamara, Republic of Ireland
You guys afraid of the bogeyman or something? :naughty:

I've hundreds of photos of foxes I've shot at night out to 300 yards.

Different gun & different light I'd probably stretch that out farther. But right now I'm happy where I'm at with what I'm working with.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
You guys afraid of the bogeyman or something? :naughty:

I've hundreds of photos of foxes I've shot at night out to 300 yards.

Different gun & different light I'd probably stretch that out farther. But right now I'm happy where I'm at with what I'm working with.

LOL

The DARK is afraid of ME.

:D
 

ScaryFatKidGT

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
906
The 75 has less range than the TK70. It is a more focused but still floody beam...but the overall cd is lower.

My TK70 has decent range...but not like my SR90, and definitely not like my Dedomed SR90...and I believe the specs indicate that the TN31 STOCK should be closer to at least the SR90 end of things....surpassing the TK70.

The TK75 has a lower cd than the TK70, so it will be even further behind in range, and so forth.
The TN31 matches the SR90 for throw but with a smaller beam and less light output. A de-domed SR90 gets a little over 200,000lux, impresive but isn't the lowest OSTS TN31 like 245,000?
 

vudoo

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
822
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I just checked Saablaster website and it's listed the TN31 as now having a XP-G2 LED with 405kcd?

I have read though this whole thread with no mention of this?

Thats 3x the lux of a base model!!!
 

mvyrmnd

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,392
Location
Australia
I just checked Saablaster website and it's listed the TN31 as now having a XP-G2 LED with 405kcd?

I have read though this whole thread with no mention of this?

Thats 3x the lux of a base model!!!

There's a new thread dedicated to the TN31mb (mega blaster)
 

rdrfronty

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
290
I just checked Saablaster website and it's listed the TN31 as now having a XP-G2 LED with 405kcd?

I have read though this whole thread with no mention of this?

Thats 3x the lux of a base model!!!
He has a entire thread on it here in this section.
 

langham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
441
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
I know this is an old thread, but I was in the process of modifying my TN31 again, and I found something disturbing that tells me quite a bit about why these lights need to be modified by mike. I was removing my old de-domed XM-L U2 bin and upgrading to a new XM-L2 U2 1C bin led that I then de-domed, when I found that the corrosion inhibiting plastic layer on the back of the copper was never removed and was acting as a heat barrier. I had noticed that my TN-31 took a remarkably long time to heat up and did lose a substantial amount of light over time. The light now gets warm in a very short period of time and throw substantially further. I was able to get a visible amount of light at 1700m on a clear night, I don't know if this means that the 15% more light output is even greater than 15% gain in throw or that I got a top end U2 bin led this time and a low end U2 bin led previously, or if the added thermal properties added a significant amount of light output.
 

TEEJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,489
Location
NJ
I know this is an old thread, but I was in the process of modifying my TN31 again, and I found something disturbing that tells me quite a bit about why these lights need to be modified by mike. I was removing my old de-domed XM-L U2 bin and upgrading to a new XM-L2 U2 1C bin led that I then de-domed, when I found that the corrosion inhibiting plastic layer on the back of the copper was never removed and was acting as a heat barrier. I had noticed that my TN-31 took a remarkably long time to heat up and did lose a substantial amount of light over time. The light now gets warm in a very short period of time and throw substantially further. I was able to get a visible amount of light at 1700m on a clear night, I don't know if this means that the 15% more light output is even greater than 15% gain in throw or that I got a top end U2 bin led this time and a low end U2 bin led previously, or if the added thermal properties added a significant amount of light output.

Hmmm...the thermal improvement is good.

I'm unclear as to if the 1,700 m of throw was with de-doming, or just lasted longer with thermal improvement (How much change from dedoming alone?)

I know de-doming my SR90 about DOUBLED my cd...but I haven't de-domed an XM-L2 yet. :)
 
Top