Moon light mode and old age

KITROBASKIN

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Interesting.... ZLs ability to go directly to L or H from OFF is really nice and quite unique, but I always thought this UI was about the slowest to access H from L - ie, not very good for a bump-in-the-dark UI, esp. with adrenaline. You have press/hold/wait or do a slow double click (and with good timing or you might end up in a lower mode). A LMH reverse clicky gets to H in a fraction of the time, and some loose/tight bezel UIs have a momentary max feature (work-around) from any lower mode in use (fine for signaling a fast morse code).

True. Certainly it is quicker to get back to low from high on a ZL, but since I use that UI nightly, it is easy for me. My first plunge into multi-mode lights was with an early SureFire U2, and as versatile as control ring lights are for many, it does not suit my needs. In the field, where bears and (very rarely) mountain lions roam, having a tail click 'no memory', comes on at 100% with a short reset, is functional. That is, if it is stone-cold reliable, which mine is not. Hence the direct-drive on my belt, or in hand.

TEEJ, as usual, makes a good point about the profound effect of beam type, regarding low light usefulness. It also 'bears' repeating that if you try to keep your eyes as night adapted as possible, you will see more when you do crank up the lumens; Something that old age does not change.
 

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

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I wanted to comment on TEEJ's post. It is true what he says about flood vs throw and it does make a big deal in a low lumen light. Low lumens are generally going to be used in confined spaces: a camping tent, your bedroom, in the closet, etc. In those situations a throwy beam doesn't help because you want to get a good idea of the area around you. I think a more floody light goes hand in hand with a low lumen light. There's nothing worse than having low lumens concentrated into a small spot with little or no spill - you just end up turning up the lumens to be able to see stuf around you and then the spot gets bright and starts to defeat the purpose of the lumen level being low.

To the OP - although the cost isn't low you may want to look into the newest run of HDS Rotary lights. It's a solid light that will last a long time. Has a very decent low level, a nice tint, good throw/flood/spill combination and will serve you at night as well as for most any other purpose as well.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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I wanted to comment on TEEJ's post. It is true what he says about flood vs throw and it does make a big deal in a low lumen light. Low lumens are generally going to be used in confined spaces: a camping tent, your bedroom, in the closet, etc. In those situations a throwy beam doesn't help because you want to get a good idea of the area around you. I think a more floody light goes hand in hand with a low lumen light. There's nothing worse than having low lumens concentrated into a small spot with little or no spill - you just end up turning up the lumens to be able to see stuf around you and then the spot gets bright and starts to defeat the purpose of the lumen level being low.

I agree completely. I like floody XML-based lights for moonlight mode, and normally tail-stand them to gently illuminate a small room. I want a very low lux over a wide area, not a moderate lux as a spot.

To the OP - although the cost isn't low you may want to look into the newest run of HDS Rotary lights. It's a solid light that will last a long time. Has a very decent low level, a nice tint, good throw/flood/spill combination and will serve you at night as well as for most any other purpose as well.

Ouch. Insanely expensive for anyone who isn't a heavily addicted flashaholic. He did say, "I would like a cheaper light", and an HDS is the opposite of that. Plus, IIRC, the moonlight modes in the latest versions are very inefficient, less than 10% as efficient as other brands.

I'd go with a 4sevens Quark, or a Zebralight SC52. I wouldn't call them "cheap", but they won't break the bank, and they offer good value overall.
 

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

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Expensive is a very personal thing. I don't make any assumptions as to what people consider expensive or cheap outside of my own personal taste. I am merely presenting the OP with an option that should definitely be considered as I (a lover of the T1a) feel it would be a perfect light having a strong feel for what the OP likes and is looking for.

Efficiency is really the last of my concerns when looking at the low level on a light. First, I will never run a light on low for a month straight - not realistic at all. Second, if you actually USE your light for things then it is likely that you will from time to time actually USE it on high. Consider that for every minute on high you have burned away many hours of low low use. It creates a moot arguement. Third, I use rechargeable cells so I don't care if I have to swap them out.
 

reppans

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Efficiency is really the last of my concerns when looking at the low level on a light. First, I will never run a light on low for a month straight - not realistic at all. Second, if you actually USE your light for things then it is likely that you will from time to time actually USE it on high. Consider that for every minute on high you have burned away many hours of low low use. It creates a moot arguement. Third, I use rechargeable cells so I don't care if I have to swap them out.

Guess everyone is different - efficiency and runtime, particularly for emergencies, is top priority for me and why I love sub-lumen lights. You are right though, except for a TEOTWAWKI type event, nobody needs to run a light on a low low for a month of runtime, and I agree, the reality is that in an emergency we'd probably need med and high enough to wipe a good chunk of battery out.

But the point the argument is missing is that, whatever miniscule amount of power is left in the battery, an efficient sub-lumen light will be able to run, what, 5-10x longer than a power-consuming UI like magnetic rings? For example, take the suggested SWM V11R and SF Titan T1A which list their max runtimes at 35 and 60 hrs, respectively. If you're in an emergency and have burnt up 90% of that cell at high and medium, well then, the last 10% of the cell might get you 3-6 hours, maybe enough to last through the rest of the night? An efficient clicky that runs 300+ hrs would run another ~ 30 hrs on the same 10%.

Of course, there's always EDCing back-up lights and spare batteries, but the underlying point is that additional efficiency is just another option that is nice to have if you need it. There is no better or worse, many folks are happy to sacrifice efficiency for nicer UIs (sounds like the OP included) - but for me, a power consuming UI sort of defeats the primary reason I'm a sub-lumen snob - and that's runtime.

All that said, I will happy admit to being a being a lazy B'stard that simply dislikes charging and changing batteries... so I end up preferring to use my night vision, along with efficient and useably "bright" moonlight modes instead. Heck it's only mode on my lights that don't start that damn mental battery meter ticking in the back of my head ;).
 

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

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It's great and all, but a completely unrealistic and unlikely to happen scenario. I don't understand why people try to knock light like the T1A, V10R, Rotary for their efficiency issues on low. It's like the only argument people can come up with to try and knock down a far superior UI than most lights with just a single clicky button.

Buy the light you want and will enjoy using - that is my motto. I honestly don't give a flying crap about getting 100 or 5,000 hours out of a low mode. It is so low on my list of concerns about a light that I couldn't care less. As long as the light lasts for a while on low that is good enough as long as it goes low enough for me. If you guys want to be so petty to argue about efficiency then move on to another thread, please. I've seen so many threads taken down my a few people that just claim a light can't be good if it doesn't run on a depleted cell forever. That is a very narrow minded view and one that I don't subscribe to at all.

I say buy the light YOU WANT. Use it. Enjoy it. But don't knock other people's views just because you have OCD about being cheap about buying and changing batteries.
 

AZPops

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Great info from all, I should have purchased a backup SF Titan T1a when they were just a bill. Mine is a user, just hate to lose it.


Yup, love mine (user on a key ring), so when I saw it at under a "C" note I picked one up. Should've picked up a few more at that price.

Good luck on your search.

Pops
 
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reppans

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It's great and all, but a completely unrealistic and unlikely to happen scenario. I don't understand why people try to knock light like the T1A, V10R, Rotary for their efficiency issues on low. It's like the only argument people can come up with to try and knock down a far superior UI than most lights with just a single clicky button.

Buy the light you want and will enjoy using - that is my motto. I honestly don't give a flying crap about getting 100 or 5,000 hours out of a low mode. It is so low on my list of concerns about a light that I couldn't care less. As long as the light lasts for a while on low that is good enough as long as it goes low enough for me. If you guys want to be so petty to argue about efficiency then move on to another thread, please. I've seen so many threads taken down my a few people that just claim a light can't be good if it doesn't run on a depleted cell forever. That is a very narrow minded view and one that I don't subscribe to at all.

I say buy the light YOU WANT. Use it. Enjoy it. But don't knock other people's views just because you have OCD about being cheap about buying and changing batteries.

ROFLMAO... getting a wee bit defensive, eh? You need to look in the mirror a bit more often. WITL makes a small comment on efficiency and you express your opposing opinion even calling it a "moot argument?"

Well I agree with WITL and I tried, as fairly as possible I might add, to let OTHER readers here (not necessarily you, as we had this "discussion" before) that efficiency matters to some people, and the potential scenarios it maybe useful for. And I did agree with you and only took your own example a small step further... and now "my scenario" it's suddenly unrealistic and unlikely?

I'm not knocking down the T1A or V10R. I never claimed it wasn't any good. I merely said "it's no better or worse" and the "nicer UIs" can be a "sacrifice" for efficiency. Sorry if I don't agree with your opinion that those UIs are "far superior UIs" - it depends on the user's priorities. I personally really like the idea of IV magnetic ring lights, it would solve many Goldilocks just-right output and mode spacing issues for me, but I hesitate for now for efficiency and added complexity/reliability reasons (oops... that just slipped).

I'm not saying your more frequent battery charging/changing habits are wrong, or your personal choice of UI over efficiency is "petty," I'm just offering OTHER readers of a public forum an opposing view to your strongly expressed opinions. Opinions are what makes these enthusiast forums informative to all, and your attempts squash those opinions that differ from our own, IMHO, is a "very narrow minded view."
 

StarHalo

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I hadn't considered using the lowest setting, .01 lumen, as a locator beacon, but I might just have to try that.

Wasn't me that recommended it, though I'd only do that on a NiMH, and even then I'd prefer a tritium. I have a vial that sits on my nightstand directly on front of my SC600, so I can see where it is, see where to put it back, and don't have to worry about breaking the vial on the flashlight.
 

nightshade

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ROFLMAO... getting a wee bit defensive, eh? You need to look in the mirror a bit more often. WITL makes a small comment on efficiency and you express your opposing opinion even calling it a "moot argument?"

Well I agree with WITL and I tried, as fairly as possible I might add, to let OTHER readers here (not necessarily you, as we had this "discussion" before) that efficiency matters to some people, and the potential scenarios it maybe useful for. And I did agree with you and only took your own example a small step further... and now "my scenario" it's suddenly unrealistic and unlikely?

I'm not knocking down the T1A or V10R. I never claimed it wasn't any good. I merely said "it's no better or worse" and the "nicer UIs" can be a "sacrifice" for efficiency. Sorry if I don't agree with your opinion that those UIs are "far superior UIs" - it depends on the user's priorities. I personally really like the idea of IV magnetic ring lights, it would solve many Goldilocks just-right output and mode spacing issues for me, but I hesitate for now for efficiency and added complexity/reliability reasons (oops... that just slipped).

I'm not saying your more frequent battery charging/changing habits are wrong, or your personal choice of UI over efficiency is "petty," I'm just offering OTHER readers of a public forum an opposing view to your strongly expressed opinions. Opinions are what makes these enthusiast forums informative to all, and your attempts squash those opinions that differ from our own, IMHO, is a "very narrow minded view."

Wow...... :sigh:
 

bondr006

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At 54 I also really appreciate lights with a low firefly/moon mode. It is definitely what I use most around the house at night. I have several good lights with low modes that I keep handy and cycle through for night duty. Below is a list of my lights with nice low, lows.

1. ZL SC52 ................. .01 lumen
2. ZL SC62 ................. .01 lumen
3. ZL SC600 MKll .......... .01 lumen
4. HDS Rotary 250 ..........02 lumen
5. HDS Clicky 250 ...........02 lumen
6. L3 Illumination L10C .....09 lumen
7. Thrunite T10S .......... 0.2 lumen
8. Sunwayman V11R ........ 1 lumen - Much less in reality. A bit lower than the .02 of my HDS lights.

V11R on the left. Rotary 250 on the right. Sorry for the grainy iPhone picture.
 
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Haesslich

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I'm not nearly as old as the OP, but I do like my moonlight modes for nighttime use - especially if I want to go back to sleep soon after a run to the sink for some water or something.

I have the EYE10 TiC, and love how far it goes down - it makes the V10 look like a spotlight in comparison. But the tradeoff is efficiency, as it won't get near the runtime of my 4Sevens Quark at a higher moonlight level. I've also got the Peak Eiger with a QTC in twisty format, but it tends to be... twitchy. The QTC is nice when it works.... but it doesn't work consistently.

If I can make a suggestion, I'd suggest a Quark QPL with the 0.2 lumen moonlight mode - it will be a bit bright, but that won't matter if you're bouncing it off the ceiling. Another option is a 2 inch tritium lamp... but only for close range use in very dark spots (like a bathroom)
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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I'm not overly concerned about efficiency in moonlight mode, especially if the light takes rechargeable batteries, but it does need to be competitive with today's brands like 4sevens Quarks. IMO, less than a week (like was recently measured with the latest HDS lights) at very low lumens isn't good enough, especially since it takes expensive CR123 primary batteries. Some people will go to extremes, looking for battery vampires, and that's fine but I'm not likely to ever go that far.

I want to be able to use moonlight mode essentially "free", so that it doesn't deplete the battery in any significant way, and that I can still use it for a long time when the battery is nearly dead. I've noticed that both my Quarks and Zebralights are good at running for a long time after the battery is no longer able to keep the flashlight brighter than "low". I don't usually run them down that far, but when I do it's nice to know I don't have to replace the battery until it's convenient. IIRC, their moonlights modes last about a month, and are useably bright.
 

KITROBASKIN

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I want to be able to use moonlight mode essentially "free"...

If you have smoke detectors or anything else that uses 9 volt batteries that should be changed on a schedule (before they are depleted), spring for the best Pak-Lite with the long-lasting glow in the dark head. The high setting is bright enough for reading and the low level is good for night adapted eyes. Even when the 9 volt is quite drained, it is still useful. The tint is not luxurious, but the electrons ARE 'free'. Most of you are probably already aware of the good quality of the Pak-Lite, and if you're like me, when up late at night you want bright-light capability. For additional nightstand use though, it works really well, and comes in handy during power failures. It is said 9 volt batteries can be bought during times of weather emergencies, etc..
 

Haesslich

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I'm not overly concerned about efficiency in moonlight mode, especially if the light takes rechargeable batteries, but it does need to be competitive with today's brands like 4sevens Quarks. IMO, less than a week (like was recently measured with the latest HDS lights) at very low lumens isn't good enough, especially since it takes expensive CR123 primary batteries.

I want to be able to use moonlight mode essentially "free", so that it doesn't deplete the battery in any significant way, and that I can still use it for a long time when the battery is nearly dead. I've noticed that both my Quarks and Zebralights are good at running for a long time after the battery is no longer able to keep the flashlight brighter than "low".

That's what I like about the CR123-equipped Quarks -15 or 30 days on moonlight. Not quite free, but pretty nice to have. Pity QTC lights are t very reliable for controlling output.
 

Lord Flashlight

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I was just thinking about Moonlight mode and how it's probably more popular with people middle aged and up. I'm still in my 30s so haven't had a lot of cause to use it yet. If I went camping I'd probably use it as leave on all night night light but that hasn't happened yet.
 

gunga

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I've been quite the fan of moonlight levels for a while. I recently got old style HDS rotary. It's quite interesting because .08 lumens turns out to be really quite bright.


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums
 

mcnair55

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I was just thinking about Moonlight mode and how it's probably more popular with people middle aged and up. I'm still in my 30s so haven't had a lot of cause to use it yet. If I went camping I'd probably use it as leave on all night night light but that hasn't happened yet.

Think more about its use rather than an age thing.Working examples of how good moon mode is. A) Going to the loo,does not affect sleepy eyes.B) Pitch black if you were outside makes reading much easier.C) Reading a menu in an ambient lit restaurant is far easier and does not make you look a complete Richard Head with a typical night sun that some spanners use.
 

Haesslich

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Moonlight mode is for very close range indoor use, or outdoor use with night adapted eyes for various bits, as long as there's very little ambient light. Even a few lumens can be too much light and glare out your vision, especially if you're dealing with brightly coloured/reflective surfaces.

And as mcnair pointed out, you don't need 5-10 lumens to read a menu or a book, and you'd only make yourself stand out as a douche while trying to do so.
 
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