More EV negatives

Lowglow

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No go on.

I agree, there isn't much to like about a car that doesn't even have a dipstick to check the oil to a "car guy". When I bought my wife's latest car I didn't even lift the hood for a few days. Curiosity got to me about what size the battery is. Turns out it's about the size of a lawn mower battery. Now, she likes the touch screen, heated seats and the backup camera. I just drive it like the other lemmings going from point a to b. "Ugh! So boring". 😵‍💫

Now, when my son calls me and says his old jalopy has an issue I say "heck yeah, I'll be there in 20 minutes" then get on my bicycle and ride to his house.

My work truck would not play music from a speaker when in bluetooth mode. It was still under warranty. I take it to the shop and the guy says "my computer says it's X", a $900 part. They replace it. Nope, still not working. Now for the radio and cd player all speakers worked. Guy says "the computer now says it's Y". Three weeks later they've replaced the entire thing to the tune of $3000 their cost. Still not working. I said "are you sure it isn't just a loose wire?". Well, it turned out to be a wire that had never been connected at the factory.

You made a good point about all the features on modern cars - ones that EV's have as main selling points. As an engineer I look at these 'features' as fixes for problems that often need not exist in the first place. Seats, steering wheels etc. can be designed (by using multiple insulation layers) to protect you from heat and cold without needing the electronics as an example.

As someone who has had extensive mechanical engineering training I am disappointed by the EV's I have studied close up. Their owners are seeing something completely different to me - whilst they demonstrate the electronic tailgate I am seeing flimsy fittings under load, while they demonstrate the electronically adjustable seats I am hearing the loaded nylon gears just waiting for their moment to strip, while they are wowed by the big screen on the console I remember all the failed LCD panels I have attempted to repair only to find that the part needed was not available - must buy a new one. Often the soft touch materials are already showing scuffs just from getting in and out and the actual quality (not perceived quality) of the parts isn't that good.

I absolutely value simple, well made and long service life. But that ship has sailed. We have the last 10+ of cheapening ICE cars to train people into only using their dealer, never questioning and kept satisfied by chintzy gizmos. So EV's are the next step in this trend.

You know what, I think the beginning of the rot was when painted silver 'swoopy' dashboards became trendy. Around 2009. Things got worse from then onwards.
 

Monocrom

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Working on a 2024 model anything? Forget about it. For me at least.

So yeah, it sucks, but I just don't see much a difference between the new ICEs and EVs in this regard.
Watched a mechanic on YouTube go in-depth about how easy it is to work on the 2.5L Boxer engine on the latest Subaru Impreza RS. Lots of room underneath the engine bay. Which is good since it's not the most reliable engine. Nor the fastest.
 

Monocrom

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That is the reason I lease cars for 3 years, I do not want to deal with expensive repairs/ maintenance. I only change oil 7-8 times in 3 years, even brakes and tires i still return original, I had a 2016 sonata once that warped rotors at 25k, dealer said it is a wear and tear, so i replaced them myself, also those tires were garbage too, at 25k barely had any thread left, had to buy new ones, other cars, never replace/fix anything.
Generally speaking, over the long-haul you save a lot more money by buying and holding onto a vehicle for quite a few years. Even out of warranty. But some brands like Hyundai/KIA wear out faster. Also, no one expects reliability from Audi.
 

alpg88

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That is the thing if i hold onto the car for quite a few years i'm paying for all the maintenance and repair, modern cars are not like cars 20 years ago, much more expensive to fix, and maintain.
As soon as warranty runs out, it is going for a trade in.
 

Guitar Guy

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I remember in high school metal shop class, we had an auto mechanics segment for a few weeks. Yes, long ago, but we learned how to do a tune-up - replace & gap plugs, gap the points, set the timing, etc. on an old Chevrolet 283 cu. in. engine. Man, I wish it was still that easy ... and, that was a great engine. My Dad had a couple of them in his vehicles.

Here's something not mentioned a lot when talking about the "phasing out" of ICE engines & vehicles. Think about the hundreds of thousands of classic & vintage cars, trucks, and motorcycles owned by the car show crowd, sports car clubs, vintage Harley & Japanese bike clubs. If gasoline gets priced so high as to push the climate change hoax to deter those who aren't going along with it, all of those classic car & bike folks are going to get screwed royally.
 

TPA

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Florida
I've not run the calculations in 5 years now, but back when I was looking for a new car I did all sorts of calculations. I narrowed down the field to 4 cars, some ICE, hybrid, and EVs. Ultimately, the ICE car I chose, including manufacturing, and all of the petrol it will burn in its lifetime, and eventual disposal/recycling of the car, was the most environmentally-friendly. My car is considered a "light hybrid" since it has no electric motor, but does shut down the ICE while the car is moving and when the car is stopped.

I liked the tech toys on the EVs, but it wasn't going to work for my type of usage, and it didn't make sense environmentally. The tech toys weren't enough to sway me.
 

Monocrom

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That is the thing if i hold onto the car for quite a few years i'm paying for all the maintenance and repair, modern cars are not like cars 20 years ago, much more expensive to fix, and maintain.
As soon as warranty runs out, it is going for a trade in.
I mean, there are models with so many electronic aids/bells & whistles that they'll clearly be too expensive to fix once out of warranty. (Biggest exception being KIA/Hyundai dealers who are notorious for finding every excuse in the book to deny warranty claims long before the warranty has expired.) Thing is, there are models out there with a minimum of such electronic add-ons. No, none of them are cars that most folks want to drive. But they're still being made today. Mitsubishi Mirage being the most common example.

Also, if a particular model is well-built from a brand with a fantastic reputation for reliability; the numbers get more blurred. Is it cheaper to only lease, or hold onto such a model for the long haul and take care of any expenses that crop up? Conducting any sort of study into that would be very difficult, unfortunately.
 

Guitar Guy

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Here's my methodology with vehicles, and motorcycles. I also like the ones that are a bit older, for reasons mentioned above. I've never bought a brand new vehicle, not because I couldn't afford it, but because it is the worst possible investment of any item that you will ever buy.

The person who buys it new takes the biggest hit on depreciation, not to mention, interest on the monthly payment, maximum insurance rates, and maximum property taxes. Plus, many times taking it back to the dealer to work out the "bugs".

I buy them when they're about 10 years old, or even a little more, when the value curve flattens out, often for under $10K. My Dad taught me how to spot a good deal on a vehicle, and what to look for, many years ago. I'm a hard negotiator, especially when it's a dealership, and I use book values when they're to my advantage.

Since I keep 2 vehicles, I make sure I'm never in a big hurry, and have time to look. I sell the the one I'm replacing, and have that money, plus what I'm going to add to it. I start searching online, and sometimes even place a want ad, and search for usually 2 to 3 weeks, and will drive a fair distance if needed. I ask lots of questions over the phone, and get plenty of photos.

I buy the very cleanest vehicle, with very low miles, for cash, drive it for 3 to 5 years, and sell it for slightly less than what I paid for it. On one GMC Sonoma, and on an S10, I sold them for more than what I paid. This way, I'm paying no loan interest, low insurance, low taxes, and repairs are usually minimal.

My two current vehicles are a 2006 with 75k miles, and a 2003 with 117k. I've had them both since around 2017, and they had ultra low miles when I bought them. I've kept them a little longer than usual because they were both very low mileage and extra nice, and because of the jump in vehicle prices after the plandemic.

I've only had an auto loan twice, once while I was in college for $86, and one other when I was young, and that was just to build my credit score, which is now at near maximum highest possible.

I bought a Corvette in the early 1980s, drove it for 22 years, and sold it for the exact same price that I purchased it for. The only $$ I put into it was tires, brakes, and oil. Took me 9 months and I looked at probably 25 of them, before the age of digital photos. I had wanted a Vette since I saw one in my neighbor's Chevrolet dealership when I was around 8 years old.

Another thing I do - when I first buy the vehicle, I do a full detail and wax job, and take my "For Sale" photos at a beautiful spot down by the river, when it's looking the best that it's going to, in my possession.
 
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Monocrom

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Someone did the math before this whole Pay Package thing. Even without it, Musk right now has enough money to single-handedly end poverty on the planet. Not joking! With more than enough billions of dollars to live very comfortably for the rest of his Life. When informed of that, Musk said he'd do it. But only if someone could guarantee a way the money would be properly distributed, without getting siphoned off due to corruption. Yeah, clearly he was BSing about that.
 

alpg88

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Someone did the math before this whole Pay Package thing. Even without it, Musk right now has enough money to single-handedly end poverty on the planet. Not joking! With more than enough billions of dollars to live very comfortably for the rest of his Life. When informed of that, Musk said he'd do it. But only if someone could guarantee a way the money would be properly distributed, without getting siphoned off due to corruption. Yeah, clearly he was BSing about that.
But he can not, no money in the world can, poverty is not in pockets, but in minds. It is inconvenient truth, but it is.
 
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TPA

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Well...it looks like you're not even going to be allowed to drive t he car you already own:

Yep, more "environmentally friendly" policies... It takes far more resources to build a new car than keep one running.

How's that Ethanol fuel going? And why are we still doing it despite that it's been well-established that it's worse for the environment than just pumping oil out of the ground?
 
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Well...it looks like you're not even going to be allowed to drive t he car you already own:

Yep, more "environmentally friendly" policies... It takes far more resources to build a new car than keep one running.

How's that Ethanol fuel going? And why are we still doing it despite that it's been well-established that it's worse for the environment than just pumping oil out of the ground?

Well, it's because of ............. something we're not allowed to discuss on this forum. 🤫
 

Monocrom

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But he can not, no money in the world can, poverty is not in pockets, but in minds. It is inconvenient truth, but it is.
I'm sorry but when a person looks around and they are living in absolute squalor, with literally nothing to give to their starving children to eat; that's not a mentality issue. That's a lack of money to buy food issue. Poverty is not in the mind. It is very much reality for many.

Someone more intelligent than I once said, "Reality is that which does not go away when you stop believing in it." A person can change their mentality and stop believing they live in abject poverty. When they open their eyes, they're going to be in for a very rude awakening.
 

Monocrom

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Well...it looks like you're not even going to be allowed to drive t he car you already own:

Yep, more "environmentally friendly" policies... It takes far more resources to build a new car than keep one running.

How's that Ethanol fuel going? And why are we still doing it despite that it's been well-established that it's worse for the environment than just pumping oil out of the ground?
Bah! frickin' EU. Bunch of Socialists banded together to spread the misery evenly.
 

alpg88

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I'm sorry but when a person looks around and they are living in absolute squalor, with literally nothing to give to their starving children to eat; that's not a mentality issue. That's a lack of money to buy food issue. Poverty is not in the mind. It is very much reality for many.

Someone more intelligent than I once said, "Reality is that which does not go away when you stop believing in it." A person can change their mentality and stop believing they live in abject poverty. When they open their eyes, they're going to be in for a very rude awakening.
Sorry but i can't agree, without going too far into politics, your reality is what you build around you, if you look around and see absolute squalor, you do everything to get out of there, youi adopt and overcome. It is true that most people do not have that power to do something about it. that power is in their mind, IF they did, reality around them would change.
 
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sim1tti

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Sorry but i can't agree, without going too far into politics, your reality is what you build around you, if you look around and see absolute squalor, you do everything to get out of there, youi adopt and overcome. It is true that most people do not have that power to do something about it. that power is in their mind, IF they did, reality around them would change.
"There is no spoon!" 😄
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