Multiple Rechargeable R123 in Series?
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bobisculous
Flashlight Enthusiast
I believe the said limit is two max in a series. Or at least I thought thats what I read once. After that, it gets dangerous is some certain ways. Perhaps I am pulling that out of thin air too though..not sure anymore.
Cameron
Cameron
TrueBlue
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'd agree with Bob. The more cells you put in series the light the more of a chance one of the cell will become unbalanced during discharge with respect to the rest of the cells. And when the one odd cell gets overdischarged your problems will multiply.
Two Li-ions in series should be a limit.
Two Li-ions in series should be a limit.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Sorry guys...
When using protected cells, you can string as many as you want to. The cells protection will keep things in order.
Charging cells is a different matter. I don't think the Battery Station cells have overcharge protection, so you need a charger that limits the charge voltage.
Charging cells in series can be done, but there are some extra precautions you need to take.
Now unprotected cells are different. The are best used in single cell lights, but you can get away with using two in series, if you are vigilant. Above that and you are asking for trouble. It can be done, but the difficulty in knowing when to shut things down will result in dead cells. Not recommended.
Tom
When using protected cells, you can string as many as you want to. The cells protection will keep things in order.
Charging cells is a different matter. I don't think the Battery Station cells have overcharge protection, so you need a charger that limits the charge voltage.
Charging cells in series can be done, but there are some extra precautions you need to take.
Now unprotected cells are different. The are best used in single cell lights, but you can get away with using two in series, if you are vigilant. Above that and you are asking for trouble. It can be done, but the difficulty in knowing when to shut things down will result in dead cells. Not recommended.
Tom
wptski
Flashlight Enthusiast
Tom:
I've seen these cells refered to as "low voltage protected" and I've always thought that they weren't as I've checked them down to 2.5V on a Duratrax ICE charger.
I just put one on the CBA with the LVC all the way down and it shut off at 2.3V. It does indeed have low voltage protection but like all the rest, it's way too low! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
I've seen these cells refered to as "low voltage protected" and I've always thought that they weren't as I've checked them down to 2.5V on a Duratrax ICE charger.
I just put one on the CBA with the LVC all the way down and it shut off at 2.3V. It does indeed have low voltage protection but like all the rest, it's way too low! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
TrueBlue
Flashlight Enthusiast
True; it is just my opinion and an unwritten rule on my part only. For me it is better safe than sorry.
I'm conservative with these cells as they are to new for me to go stringing lots of cells together. I'll let other brave people string them together then I'll follow sheepishly later.
I'm conservative with these cells as they are to new for me to go stringing lots of cells together. I'll let other brave people string them together then I'll follow sheepishly later.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Bill,
Good point.
When the cells shut off at 2.3 volts, what voltage do they rebound to?
Tom
Good point.
When the cells shut off at 2.3 volts, what voltage do they rebound to?
Tom
UncleFester
Flashaholic*,
I'm doing exactly what you're asking about. I made 2C M*glite into a 3 X R123 light. These are your Battery Station R123's I'm using a georges80 1 amp downconverter driving a U bin Lux 3. This little thing is BRIGHT.
What's both a blessing and an annoyance is the low voltage protection on these cells. It's a blessing for obvious reasons. The annoyance part is when it engages. I get about 1.5 hours of regulated runtime and then the protection hits. ABSOLUTELY NO warning beforehand. The light works fine and then poof, it's off. Time to recharge.
Edit: I have about 3 cycles on the setup. so far, so good.
What's both a blessing and an annoyance is the low voltage protection on these cells. It's a blessing for obvious reasons. The annoyance part is when it engages. I get about 1.5 hours of regulated runtime and then the protection hits. ABSOLUTELY NO warning beforehand. The light works fine and then poof, it's off. Time to recharge.
Edit: I have about 3 cycles on the setup. so far, so good.
wptski
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Bill,
Good point.
When the cells shut off at 2.3 volts, what voltage do they rebound to?
Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:
Well, that's one point about a protected cell, once triggered, it stays open till its reset by charging. Depending on your type of charger, you may not know!
If your blessed like me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and have a ICE and Triton, you have to watch as you start the cycle. Much easier to see on a CC/CV power supply.
The cell is sitting still triggered but I was going to do a test where I'd leave the cell in that low voltage, deep dcischarge condition for a while then retest. I will reset it or test another since I have one and post later.
Normally, the lower the discharge the less the bounce back or recover. I know that the same cell discharged on the ICE to 2.5V recovered to 3.2V, so I'm guessing at no more than 3.0V.
SilverFox said:
Hello Bill,
Good point.
When the cells shut off at 2.3 volts, what voltage do they rebound to?
Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:
Well, that's one point about a protected cell, once triggered, it stays open till its reset by charging. Depending on your type of charger, you may not know!
If your blessed like me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and have a ICE and Triton, you have to watch as you start the cycle. Much easier to see on a CC/CV power supply.
The cell is sitting still triggered but I was going to do a test where I'd leave the cell in that low voltage, deep dcischarge condition for a while then retest. I will reset it or test another since I have one and post later.
Normally, the lower the discharge the less the bounce back or recover. I know that the same cell discharged on the ICE to 2.5V recovered to 3.2V, so I'm guessing at no more than 3.0V.
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Hello Uncle Fester,
You will get more cycles from your cells if you "top" them off frequently rather than run then all the way down.
Thanks Bill. Under load, it may be acceptable to discharge to a lower voltage as long as the cell rebounds back to a decent voltage.
Tom
You will get more cycles from your cells if you "top" them off frequently rather than run then all the way down.
Thanks Bill. Under load, it may be acceptable to discharge to a lower voltage as long as the cell rebounds back to a decent voltage.
Tom
wptski
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Uncle Fester,
You will get more cycles from your cells if you "top" them off frequently rather than run then all the way down.
Thanks Bill. Under load, it may be acceptable to discharge to a lower voltage as long as the cell rebounds back to a decent voltage.
Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:
In the RC Forum battery primer it was stated, 2.5V under load and 3.0V resting but if you've followed some of the threads and I know that you have, they've changed their minds. It's more like 3.0V under load and 3.7V resting. I noticed that most cells discharged to 3.0V rebound to around 3.7V too! I think that if it don't rebound to at least 3.0V, it's damaged but maybe still usable with reduced capacity.
EDIT: Forgot to add that if a cell is discharged to below 3.0V the rule is to charge at .1C up to 3.7V and resume regular charging. Most chargers don't charge that low, even the ICE/Triton don't go below 100ma. If you using a charger made for Pila, JSB123, etc. your always recovering from a deep discharge the wrong way. That was my main reason for getting a CC/CV powwer supply.
SilverFox said:
Hello Uncle Fester,
You will get more cycles from your cells if you "top" them off frequently rather than run then all the way down.
Thanks Bill. Under load, it may be acceptable to discharge to a lower voltage as long as the cell rebounds back to a decent voltage.
Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:
In the RC Forum battery primer it was stated, 2.5V under load and 3.0V resting but if you've followed some of the threads and I know that you have, they've changed their minds. It's more like 3.0V under load and 3.7V resting. I noticed that most cells discharged to 3.0V rebound to around 3.7V too! I think that if it don't rebound to at least 3.0V, it's damaged but maybe still usable with reduced capacity.
EDIT: Forgot to add that if a cell is discharged to below 3.0V the rule is to charge at .1C up to 3.7V and resume regular charging. Most chargers don't charge that low, even the ICE/Triton don't go below 100ma. If you using a charger made for Pila, JSB123, etc. your always recovering from a deep discharge the wrong way. That was my main reason for getting a CC/CV powwer supply.
UncleFester
Flashaholic*,
Thanks Tom
Ooops Ooops double double post post./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif
Ooops Ooops double double post post./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif
UncleFester
Flashaholic*,
Thanks Tom
In fact, they're in the charger at this moment for that very reason.
Until I started reading these threads on Li-Ion, I didn't know they didn't like to be deep cycled. I grew up on NiCad and later NiMh. We're supposed to keep our batteries conditioned by deep cycling. I've been doing this with my cell phones and wondering why the batteries only last a year or so. D'oh/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif The owner's manuals don't talk about it much either.
Thanks again.
In fact, they're in the charger at this moment for that very reason.
Until I started reading these threads on Li-Ion, I didn't know they didn't like to be deep cycled. I grew up on NiCad and later NiMh. We're supposed to keep our batteries conditioned by deep cycling. I've been doing this with my cell phones and wondering why the batteries only last a year or so. D'oh/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif The owner's manuals don't talk about it much either.
Thanks again.
wptski
Flashlight Enthusiast
My sister just got a new cell phone and the girl told her to run the battery down till it shuts off, three times. I looked and it had a single typical 3.6V Li-Ion battery. As she hadn't done it three times, I told her that there was no need, just top off the battery. I'm sure that it has protection circuits for discharge though.
wptski
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Bill,
Good point.
When the cells shut off at 2.3 volts, what voltage do they rebound to?
Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:
Looks like 3.2V.
SilverFox said:
Hello Bill,
Good point.
When the cells shut off at 2.3 volts, what voltage do they rebound to?
Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:
Looks like 3.2V.
