My first good flashlight - Fenix - Led lenser - NEED HELP

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DragonSeeker

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
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Hello guys. I am glad I found this forum. I searched a lot the web the last days to find the right flashlight for me. I came across a special questionnaire you have here for newbies who need a light but I wont follow it exactly because I believe my needs aren't too complicated. I hope you enlighten me!
First of all I would like to say that I am not a professional that needs a flashslight to survive. I am just an ordinary guy who needs a good flashlight for everyday use. More specifically, I need it mainly for two reasons:
a)For taking out my dog for a walk at nights (I live in an almost isolated area which is quite dark at nights without many houses nearby)
b)Additionally for that 2 nights every year that I go army camping.
I don't know much of the terminology used, but I have read and understood terms like "lumens", "beam range", "burning life" and other basics.
Budget: I don't want to spend more than 70 euros, that's around 90 dollars
Brands: I live in Cyprus and I buy products mostly on ebay.co.uk. Searching there I found out that I could easily buy without very expensive postage, flashlights of mostly 2 brands
a)Led Lenser
b)Fenix
So my following points will be mostly about these 2 brands.
Lumens / Effective range: Without knowing much of flashlights I would like something with around 200 lumens and beam range of 200 meters when in turbo mode.
Regulation circuit: Reading this forum I realized that many people are against "Led Lenser" because they don't have regulation circuits (except of the M7 I believe). That's a good point but my concern is: do the rest of the flashlights which have regulation circuits die suddenly without notice? I don't want to carry spare batteries with me every time I get out of the house.
Burning life: I ve seen nice flashlights with good output of more than 200 lumens on turbo mode, but with a very little burning life on general mode (not turbo), for example Fenix TK11 (R2) that has only 11 hours of general mode. I wouldn't want that. I would like a flashlight that can work efficiently for at least 50-60 hours on normal mode or low, for example Led Lenser P7 / T7.
Flood / focus: I found out that Led Lenser have a nice and easy way to flood and focus mode. I am not sure about the Fenix. Do they have these 2 modes?
Size: I would like my flashlight NOT to be more than 20cm length, so I could go with many fenix models. As for Led Lenser I would prefer the size of the P7, but I could also live with the P14 which is 20cm long.
Special Modes: I am not interested about all that special modes (strobe, sos, etc.). For example I like the M7 but I don't want to push the button 8 times to get in a special mode. I just need low, normal and turbo mode. Nothing else.
Models: The models that I can buy with my budget and I found interesting are the followings:
Led Lenser
a)Led Lenser P7 (+ Led Lenser P3 as a gift). That little gift makes this option interesting for me.
b)Led Lenser M7. Just for that constant current mode and not the other extras.
c)Led Lenser P14 which I find a little big, but I could live with that.
Fenix – Important, do they have flood / focus modes or they combine it in one mode?
Now about fenix I didn't have much time to study the different categories such as TK, TA, PD LD and I don't know much of them. I just found the following models that I could go with.
a)Fenix PD30 (R4) – this flashlight is quite good I think. It outputs 265 lumens (turbo), but why just 115 meters of effective range?

b)Fenix TK11 (R2) – I like this flashlight a lot, but it has very little burning life on normal mode and that's a little problem for me. Can I use some kind of rechargeable batteries?

c)Fenix LD20 (R4) – Well that's nice choice for me too, good size, output and burning life on low mode. I just couldn't find the beam range, but I guess it will be a little down, like the previous 2 fenix.

Finally, these are the flashlight I can afford to buy. To be honest, I like the P7+P3 package more, but I am a little concerned about that NOT regulation circuit issue.
I really need your "lights" here to help me guys. I told you my needs and I am very curious about your responses. If you have some other brand or model to suggest go ahead. As I said these 2 brands are easy for me to buy. Its hard to find Jetbeam, Eagletac, 4sevens, surefire at ebay.co.uk which is the place I mostly use. I prefer buying from Europe instead of America because of the shipping cost and the time.
Thanks for reading this and excuse my English.
 
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If you're going to use alkalines (please don't) then the LED Lenser will be fine as they are designed to run only on alkalines.

But, I would get myself a Fenix or Quark that runs on AA's and get a pack of Eneloops and a smart charger.

200 metres is a long way in the dark and even some very high power led lights struggle to put usable light that far, eg. TK40 is a 630 lumen light that only barely puts usable light at 200m. It's big and way over your budget. At the 200m range your are looking at getting high power lights with smooth reflectors that usually run on li-ion batteries.

If it were me, I would look seriously at the Quark AA2 Turbo. It has the 200 lumens you're looking for, throws rather well for a small light and has multiple modes that give you the right amount of light for any task. On 22 lumens it will run for nearly a day off two AA's, and it's very usable amount of light when it's dark.

4Sevens has free world wide shipping so there's no worry about extra cost. They also have a site based in Poland it that helps.
 
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Thank you for the fast reply, i hope i get more from other people

You are probably right about the 200 meters being too much.

I read more and more and i think that fenix dont have that flood and focus mode, but they combine that, am i right?
I really like that focus mode and i am not sure about how good is the combination of the 2 modes on fenix. Could anyone enlighten me?


I am really dazzled here. Fenix models (e.g. Ld20) are lighter and more suitable to carry around than the fat Led lenser P7/M7, but i like a lot more that focus mode. I think Lensers are better thrower.

I will look at 4sevens and the shipping issue, thanks.

Now for batteries types, i really dont have any knowledge about that...
Whats wrong with alkalines?
LD20 uses 2 AA and
PD30 uses cr123

What;s the differense?


Reading more and more, if i got it right, Led Lenser suggests that users should not use rechargeable batteries with their flashlights?
 
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I love speed focus lights like the Led Lensers... that being said I tend to think of non-regulated lights as garbage now. If it runs for 10 minutes at full power, 3 hours at 80% and then a week at 50%, I'm not impressed at all.

From what I have seen and read almost all regulated lights have a decent dropdown time before going dead. I think the LD20 will run for several hours in low mode when the batteries get low, and you will not be able to access high or turbo.

I cannot say enough good things about the LD20, the low levels are very usable. Changing levels is a breeze. It's not complicated at all. On turbo it's about as bright as a car headlight.

If you are going to be using your light for 90% outdoor activity you should consider the Fenix TK20. It has a ton of throw for an AA light, but it's the color that makes it an ideal light for outdoor use. It's just as bright as the LD20, but it's beam color and throw make using it a very different lighting experience.

Warm white lights make outdoor colors easy to see, and don't overwhelm your night vision as much as cool lights tend to do. My eyes are sensitive to bright light so maybe that's just me...

I have an LD20 and a TK20, and the only time I put down the LD20 is when I'm picking up the TK20 to go outside at night.


...bit I limit myself to AA lights. It's a personal preference.


If you get a CR123 light, be sure that it will accept RCR123's which are the rechargeable version of the battery. Some lights only work with CR123s and those little suckers are expensive. 18650s are common in high end lights, again, look for a light that will accept rechargeables.


I would recommend the TK20:twothumbs and throw a set of extra batteries in your pocket to boost the runtime.

Or maybe a warm white quark from 4sevens, but I don't own one, so I cant say much.

If you want cheap alternatives you could head over to shiningbeam's website and grab a few Romisen lights and still stay well within your budget.
 
DragonSeeker said:
Now for batteries types, i really dont have any knowledge about that...
Whats wrong with alkalines?
Click to expand...

Alkaline batteries are not ideal for use in these high perormance flashlights because the LEDs in our type of lights require a lot of current to keep them nice and bright. Alkaline batteries cannot provide that needed high current so their output voltage drops significantly and thus so does the light output.

Also, and this is a huge one, alkaline batteries leak like crazy. In a typical $5 light from the corner drug store, that may not be a huge problem, but when you're spending as much as we do on just one light, a battery leak can be an expensive situation. It may cost more at the beginning, but getting a set of Sanyo Eneloop batteries and a nice charger will be money well spent in the long run because Eneloops do not leak.
 
" I read more and more and i think that fenix dont have that flood and focus mode, but they combine that, am i right?
I really like that focus mode and i am not sure about how good is the combination of the 2 modes on fenix. Could anyone enlighten me?"

Umm yeah, I like to call it "100 meter focus"... a lot of lights have a decent hotspot for use up to about 100 meters or 300 feet. The LD20 is like that... really most lights are like that and if they aren't people will refer to them as being floody or throwy

the more spill a light has the more floody it is.. even if it throws just as far the spill will make the hotspot seem less intense and the spill will bounce back at you and make focusing on that hot spot harder to do.

So throwy lights in general dont have a lot of spill, they fucus all their lumens into one tight spot.

The TK20 is throwy, but it still has a decent spill... if you have a 2d or 3d maglight focus it as much as you can. That's about the same as the TK20s hotspot... now flood it out and that's it's spill.

If you have access to two maglights, you can set one to spot and one to flood and shine them at the same spot, and you would have a decent idea of what a TK20 is like.

...but I think the TK20 has a decent chance of beign brighter than both of them so,.. yah... :twothumbs
 
I would recommend the Fenix. I own a LL P14. It is a good light don't get me wrong, but I wished I would have purchased a Fenix for my first light. I also chose the P14 because I am a "normal" battery user, and I liked the fact it had a flood to focus feature. I suspected that the design may have had flaws, but I finally used it in a real world application at work and found a serious problem.

The head of the light has holes in it, while some of the LED Lenser lights have holes in them that light can shine through, these "speed focus" lights don't allow light through the holes. There is a rubber band that goes around the aspheric lens that covers the holes from the inside. However these holes work to allow air passage into the head so it can move freely. The rubber band acts as a diaphragm to keep stuff out of the lens head. But while under a house running wires, I was moving the head to focus and flood constantly. When I emerged from the house I found that sand had been sucked into the head. This made me a little angry, because I would have hoped that the light would have been a bit more useful in a real world application, since it is a "professional" use light.

There is nothing wrong with using rechargeables in a LED Lenser I don't know why they sy not to. My P14 doesn't ay specifically not to, however wording might be played so that the average joe doesn't know not to use rechargeables. I have been using eneloops for about two months in mine with no problems. I don't loose noticeable brightness untill about the 3 hr mark.

The LED Lenser series of lights that have the "speed focus" have this issue. There are a few things you can do to "water proof" the light better, but there is too much involved. one thing you can do is put a gun scope dust cap on the end of the light. looks weird but works great.

My next light will be a Fenix TK40, once again AA batts, and as far as I can tell a good search light. All Fenix lights seem to be very rugged. Check out the CPF search bar for any lights you might be interested in, once you find some "beamshots" of that light you can get an idea of the hotspot/spill vs flood to focus. Outdoor shots do the best at this. There are some 100meter shots on CPF that a guy does on a road, pointing the hotspot at a tree. This is the best beamshots I have seen yet.
4918343006
 
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I own 2 fenix lights and a LED Lenser P7 with a Dereelight CL1H coming in the mail.lovecpf

In my experience(which isn't much), I'd say that the LL P7 wouldn't be a good choice. Don't get me wrong, I like my P7 because of its throw(farther than my TK11 no kidding...but with lithium primaries) and flood option for its size. But for camping situations, the P7 stays home due to some flaws.

After 1 camping trip:
1) Dirt gets trapped in the "speed focus" head where it slides in and out. I haven't tried to disassemble the flashlight so particles are in there grinding away.

2) The Head Does NOT have a protected window. I have no idea why? All I know is its "lens?" is easily(very very easily) scratched. Not good for the long run.

3) Lack of regulation. AAA's aren't known for their juice potential. Output starts to significantly drop progressively till out.

4) For some reason, after 3 minutes on high, it gets hot...maybe it's the direct drive perhaps? And that's on alkalines.

If you're going camping I suggest something more durable, but for walking the dog, the P7 is perfect. I've looked at Eagletac P20a2, 4sevens Quark Turbo, and the Dereelight Javelin for my 2AA/Outdoor format type.

If anything, I'd use the P7 just for the house/dog walk and get something else for your camping trip. In my case, it's exactly what's happening.

I'm a N00b.....but hope that helps
 
Thanks for the responses. I think i am at the right direction.

I didnt know that issue with the dirt getting trapped in speed focus of LL so i think that's another good reason to go for the Fenix. Maybe i ll get a P14 / p17 only for indoor use in the future.


For fenix now, my budget can afford only the 3 models i wrote in my initial post.

Tk11-R2 has very low burning time, so i will skip that and finally after a week of searching i am down to 2 flashlights

PD30 R4 vs LD20 R4


I found some comparison threads in the forum for these 2 beauties but i believe they are for older versions. So i need just a little more help and i am on my way to the cashier.

I will not consider Size / weight / Burn time / Price because these seem almost the same to me, so i will focus on the following criteria:

PD30 R4
1) Max output -> 265 lumens
2) Batteries - 2x CR123A

LD20 R4
1) Max output -> 205 lumens
2) Batteries - 2x AA

1) My first question and more important: Is the difference at lumens output significant? How does it affect the hotspot and the spill?

2) As i stated before, i have no idea about batteries (i am trying to learn though). Reading the forum i understand that CR123A are a little more expensive and harder to find than the common AA. But i dont know anything else about run times and other aspects of these 2 different types of batteries so i could use some help and suggestions about specific batteries i could use. I intend to use rechargeable batteries but i dont know any more info.

For example if i go fore the LD20 and AA batteries, I ve read that sanyo eneloop are a good choice for AA. Searching the net i can see that there are AA with 1000mAh, 2000mah, etc. Could i use any of these? Whats the difference??

As a newbie i would go for the higher output (PD30-R4) but i know nothing about the batteries so i need your lights.
 
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CR123's are a LOT more expensive... so buy rechargeables, and then it's not an issue. Besides that, CR123's will produce more juice, so the lights with CR123s are always brighter.

1500mah vs 2000mah; since the light is regulated you will mostly just get a longer runtime with the 2000mah.


Runtimes on most lights for turbo are garbage, and no matter what you pick you are gonna get about an hour and a half of runtime.

Fortunately runtimes in lower levels are much better. The LD20 at 105 lumens is 5hrs. The PD30 can put out 140 lumens for 4 hours. That's some very usable light for quite a long time.


Here's a video you should look at for turbo mode comparisons courtesy of 4sevens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOExYqKcqeE
 
I would go with the Fenix,forget about the LL no regulation is not so much of a problem on there smaller lights that you use knocking about the house with but bigger stuff you need it for sure.
 
Hello again,

i couldnt imagine how hard is to decide but also how many things you can learn in this forum.

I ve read many threads all day about batteries and i decided that i am definitely not buying PD30-R4 because it doesnt accept 18650 rechargeable battery and i see that rechargeable (R)CR123A are not that good.

Option 1
So if i go for AA, i ll take LD20-R4

Option 2
If i go for CR123A, i ll try to find a flashlight that accepts 18650 rechargeable.

If you got any good ideas for the 2nd option, please let me know.


Reading the forum i found two good sites with low shipping to my country instead of buying from ebay, if you got any other please let me know

http://www.thetorchsite.co.uk/

http://www.flashaholics.co.uk/

The last one has many more brands, so if you have something to propose from there, i 'd be glad to search for it
 
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I'm a newb, but I thought I'd throw in my 2c...
I just ordered both the LL P14 and the Fenix LD20 R4.
My reasons?
I wanted a small torch and a medium sized one.
I also wanted both to run on rechargeable NiMH AA's.
The P14 I like because it has the excellent focusing lens, good build quality, takes 4 AA's which will last longer than 2, has a decent amount of heft yet isn't overly large, is comfortable to hold, is bright, has simple operation.
Things I like about the Fenix LD20 R4:
  • Lens is glass
  • Waterproof to IPX-8 standard
  • It's smaller, lighter, easier to carry
  • Still pretty bright, has one of the latest greatest Chips
  • Appears to be excellent build quality
  • It can double as my bike headlight
  • Constant consistant brightness due to the regulating circuitry

Maybe some of those points might be on your list too.
I suggest you watch the excellent review by "nutnfancy" on youtube, search LD20 review nutnfancy. It's a very thorough review and test.

I've already had an LED 4D Maglite for quite a while now, but the P14 is much brighter on spot, doesn't have the black hole in the middle on flood, and is lighter and easier to carry. If I have to apprehend an offender, I'd still prefer to have the 4D!! If I was walking the dog or going for a bike ride or tramping or camping or jogging I'd choose the LD20.

Another advantage of AAs over CR123s apart from the price advantage is availability. Almost every corner store in every part of the globe will have AA batteries, if you ever get stuck with no charger: I don't believe the same can be said for CR123s. Yes, they're also fairly common, but nowhere near as common as AAs.

Happy flashlight purchasing!
 
LD20(R4), TK20 OR TK12(R5)

I thought i was very near to my decision but not yet.

I already own a AA charger (ernergizer) so if i go with AA i got the next 2 options

AA FLASHLIGHTS
a) LD20-R4, 205 lumens (+gift: diffuser)

b) TK20, 150 lumens (+gift: Fenix 01)

Thats a hard choice. the price is similar. I ve seen some beamshots and i really dont know what to choose


Furthermore, i am tempted by those 18650 flashlights, damn they are powerful.

CR123A FLASHLIGHTS (that accept 18650 rechargeable)
a) TK11-R2, 240 lumens.
Thats a pretty good flashlight. the problem is that it has only 2 modes and i think i would need that 10 lumen mode


b) TK12-R5, 280 lumens.
i ve got an eye on this. It is powerful and it has the extra low mode that i need. But it is more expensive. I could do an exception and take it, but if i buy also 18650 rechargeables and a charger, it's gonna be way higher than my budget and i dont want that.



WHAT would you guys do? Basically i got 3 options:
1) LD20R4 (AA)
2) TK20 (AA)
3) TK12-R5 (CR123A)

what would you take from these 3? The first 2 are cheaper for me considering i already got an AA charger.
If i go for the more powerful TK12-R5, i ll take some CR123A primaries first and i ll go for the 18650 kit later
 
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Re: LD20(R4), TK20 OR TK12(R5)

DragonSeeker said:
WHAT would you guys do? Basically i got 3 options:
1) LD20R4 (AA)
2) TK20 (AA)
3) TK12-R5 (CR123A)

what would you take from these 3?
Click to expand...

I'd vote for the LD20 as it's much smaller and lighter than the other two and thus much easier to carry. I generally like AA powered lights too, but that's just my personal preference.
 
Re: LD20(R4), TK20 OR TK12(R5)

DragonSeeker said:
WHAT would you guys do? Basically i got 3 options:
1) LD20R4 (AA)
2) TK20 (AA)
3) TK12-R5 (CR123A)
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd go for the LD20 R4 (and that is the one I went for ;)).

You've already got the AA batteries and charger.
I don't think you'd really notice the extra lumens of the TK12 in real use, unless you were comparing the 2 side by side.
 
4sevens.com has free shipping, which includes international shipping last time i checked.

they carry many brands of lights. but if you order from 4sevens, 4sevens lights are the way to go.

i like 4sevens quarks over fenix. the fenix models you mention id much rather get the 4sevens equivelent. PD30 or Quark 123-2, TK11 or Quark 123-2 Turbo, LD20 or Quark AA-2. I do like the TK11, it just seems like a flat out good light, but the quark 123-2 Turbo has more options, such as more modes, and lego options, its smaller, with better voltage range.

i dont remember reading what battery type you want to use. (ive been drinking a bit). AA batteries have the advantage of low cost, and availability, while lithiums have the advantage or brighter lights, and smaller size. and the inherant advantages of lithiums, better temperature tolerances, and much less likely to leak!

right now, you want a light that technology cannot provide. from my understanding, you want small, long runtimes, bright, and range. you have to give up something to gain something else.

with all that said, i think the quark AA-2 Turbo would be a good choice. uses 2X AA. has a bigger head for more throw/range, you have the option of getting warm tint, (which i love, especially for outdoors). 2-mode programmable.
 
TK11-R2 vs Olight M20 PREMIUM R2 .... or TK12-R5

i havent looked at quarks yet, but i will probably do it today.

After one week or searching, reading and learning the TK11-R2 would be the best solution for me if it had a low mode!! I would order it right away.


A similar flashlight as i understand is the Olight M20 PREMIUM R2 which has everything TK11 R2 has but more modes, including the low mode i need! Reading some reviews i realize that it doesnt have good enough regulation running on a 18650 rechargeable, is that true?


Another solution which has the low mode included, with good regulation and as powerful (maybe even more) is the TK12-R5, but is more expensive. It will cost me around 100 euros with a good brand 18650 and a decent charger for it. I can give this money but i am not sure if its worth it for my needs that arent much.

So, among these three lights, what would it be guys?

TK11-R2 or Olight M20 PREMIUM R2 or the more expensive TK12-R5?

 
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