my new lathe ... Precision Matthews 12x36 ...

[KC2IXE]

Some levels are available with a NIST cert at extra charge. If you work in an ISO approved facility, your gages must all have a NIST cert. Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, Mitu, etc., all offer this service. Certified instruments are usually kept in the Calibration Lab in a factory, where they can be used to check non-cert gages. You'll never see one used on the shop floor.

...snip....

Pretty much - I have seen (in one shop) an NIST calibrated item on the floor, but that was because we could not lose the one generation of accuracy - yes, we paid for NIST calibration of working standards

Other funny story - what happens when YOU happen to make the most accurate instrament in a particular field - the one that the NIST uses as the standard? How do you calibrate THAT? I got to find out - the same company, every few years, would get an order for a standard that was the same accuracy as the unit at the NIST! It was fun, because to check the unit, you had to go back to "first principals" and NOT use the common "check against a unit that is at least 10x as accurate"

These were, btw "syncro/resolver standards" - they simulated either (your choice) a syncro or resolver, if I remember correctly (and I probably don't) they went to the .0001 degree

The way we did that unit was special (even for us) transformers - 1000s of turns on the secondary, tapped every X turns, and a nice rotary switch. The beauty was, if you were getting signal, it was RIGHT, nothing to drift, noting to adjust (post mfg - when making the transformers, we would remove turns as needed - they were always made with too many turns - get it right, pot the transformer - retest

Testing to first principals was - feed in your reference signal - IIRK 28 or 115 volts, or both (not at same time), depending, at 400Hz (or 60Hz - iteresting that 60Hz models could be used at 400hz, but not the other way), and measure the 3 ouputs for syncro - sine, sine +120, sine +240 - then repeat for resolver - sine, sine + 90 (yes folks - that is '2 phase - the stuff into your house is 1 phase, center tapped - true 2 phase - aka quadrature, can be changed to 3 phase, and visa/versa via a Scott-T transformer)

 

[Anglepoise]

Thanks Guys for explaining how to check accuracy of a 'level'.
Will give it a try when the snow melts and I can get to my garage.

 

[gadget_lover]

It looks like that's a wonderful deal that Will is giving. All the extras are worth a small fortune in dollars and many man weeks in time.

I like that new lathe. Wish I had room. And Time. 🙂

Daniel

 

[precisionworks]

Not to get way OT, but it's interesting to compare a carpenter's level to a master precision level. Both use a liquid filled vial containing an air bubble that is the width of one graduation. The biggest difference in the vials is that the carpenter's level vial is almost straight, having only the slightest curvature. The precision level vial has a noticeable arc, which is why it takes only half a thousandth of an inch (12" level) to move one graduation.

An interesting discussion here, if you want to read more:

http://www.leveldevelopments.com/sensitivity-explained.htm

 

[wquiles]

It looks like that's a wonderful deal that Will is giving. All the extras are worth a small fortune in dollars and many man weeks in time.

I like that new lathe. Wish I had room. And Time. 🙂

Daniel

Thanks Daniel. This is an even better deal than the Cummins I sold earlier, but once again it found a new home to another forum member. In fact, you and several others here in the forum tough me a lot, so I will be "passing it forward" as much as I can to Don when he comes to pick up the lathe next weekend 😉

Not to get way OT, but it's interesting to compare a carpenter's level to a master precision level. Both use a liquid filled vial containing an air bubble that is the width of one graduation. The biggest difference in the vials is that the carpenter's level vial is almost straight, having only the slightest curvature. The precision level vial has a noticeable arc, which is why it takes only half a thousandth of an inch (12" level) to move one graduation.

An interesting discussion here, if you want to read more:

http://www.leveldevelopments.com/sensitivity-explained.htm

Related question: Say I find an "used" Starrett 199 level - how do I "calibrate" it or "adjust" it so that it is working fine again. Are there built-in adjustments in the Starrett 199 level that I can do, or does it have to be sent somewhere for adjustment/calibration?

Will

 

[precisionworks]

Are there built-in adjustments in the Starrett 199 level that I can do, or does it have to be sent somewhere

You can calibrate it in your shop IF you have another precision level of known accuracy. Or it can be sent to Starrett for recalibration. They are awfully tough, and short of a broken vial (which can be user replaced), or a trip to a concrete floor, they should retain correct calibration.

 

[wquiles]

By the way, this is a really good thread in the PM site about this same topic, including discussion about making your own, or just using the precision vial by itself:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=28541&page=6

Here is a really good explanation of what the sensitivity numbers mean:
http://www.leveldevelopments.com/sensitivity-explained.htm

By some basic math (please correct me here), 0.0005" / 12" is about:

C= 2* PI * R, with R=12"
C = 62.83" in circunference

So detecting a 0.0005" travel on a circle that big, means a very small angle:

angle in deg / 360 = 0.0005" / 62.83"

so the angle traveled is = 0.00286 degrees !!!

No wonder these machinist levels are leagues more accurate than the wood working levels 😀

Will

 

[wquiles]

No lathe today - or is it "no soup for you!"

After a half-day waiting without hearing from them (remember the web site said they would deliver today!), I decided to call them up. The num nuts were supposed to call me to schedule to deliver, but they were expecting me to call them :mecry:

Scheduled now for tomorrow from 11AM-2PM. Maybe second time is a charm? At least they verified that it is for home delivery, so they "should" come prepared with at a minimum a lift gate 😉

Will

 

[precisionworks]

so they "should" come prepared with at a minimum a lift gate

One thing nice about lift gate service, the trailer is usually a 32' or 36' "pup" trailer. I've never seen a lift gate on a 53' road trailer. The 32' or 36' is much easier for the driver to back up, especially when they don't have an area the size of Wal Mart to work with😀

 

[Alan B]

Will,

Does this lathe have enough clearance to chuck a D M@G?

What other machines did you consider when choosing this lathe, and what made the choice for you?

I have a Grizzly G0516 and will be upgrading at some point in the hopefully near future. I would like to be able to chuck D M@Gs for some reason, I don't yet know why. 😗

Thanks for your comments,

-- Alan

 

[wquiles]

Will,

Does this lathe have enough clearance to chuck a D M@G?

What other machines did you consider when choosing this lathe, and what made the choice for you?

I have a Grizzly G0516 and will be upgrading at some point in the hopefully near future. I would like to be able to chuck D M@Gs for some reason, I don't yet know why. 😗

Thanks for your comments,

-- Alan

Honestly I don't know yet. The description page of the lathe lists the spindle bore at 1 1/2 ", while my Mitutoyo calipers give me a reading on between 1.550" and 1.549" on 4-5 "D" bodies that I just tried, so they "might" fit. If I am that close, I will probably try to take off about 60 mils from the first few inches of the spindle (chuck side), just to make sure I can accommodate them if/when I have to.

I looked at various units, but it was down the Grizzly gunsmith model (G4003G) and this PM12x36:

PM12x36:
http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1236.html

Grizzly:
http://http://grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G

In the end it came to these factors:
- the PM machine comes a little bit more fully loaded/accessories and with options I wanted, like the built-in coolant system, and the foot brake
- the PM has a fully enclosed threading gear box (should be quieter)
- Mac had several key problems with his machine (cracked frame, noisy gear box)
- Brian (MirageMan) has nothing but praises about Matt (the seller of the PM lathes)
- Matt gave me a great deal on the DRO, including installation

I will let you know more tomorrow, hopefully after 2PM. I will try to take a "few" pictures :devil:

Will

 

[Alan B]

Frustrating, waiting another day. When my first lathe arrived in mid December a couple of years ago I was looking forward and preparing to use it during the 2 week Christmas break that my company takes each year. After a couple of minutes of motor runtime it started blowing fuses and the motor would not start. Between returning it for repair and eventually replacement I had no lathe for weeks and completely missed the vacation time. I ended up with a treadmill motor and variable speed controller which I really enjoy, and the second new replacement motor from Grizzly is still in the box.

Hope yours comes soon, and in great condition...

-- Alan

 

[wquiles]

Frustrating, waiting another day. When my first lathe arrived in mid December a couple of years ago I was looking forward and preparing to use it during the 2 week Christmas break that my company takes each year. After a couple of minutes of motor runtime it started blowing fuses and the motor would not start. Between returning it for repair and eventually replacement I had no lathe for weeks and completely missed the vacation time. I ended up with a treadmill motor and variable speed controller which I really enjoy, and the second new replacement motor from Grizzly is still in the box.

Hope yours comes soon, and in great condition...

-- Alan

Thanks Alan. It has been tough, but not as much waiting as it was for Mac and Brian - they waited much longer to get their respective machines.

Like you I was hoping to use last week and this week to get everything ready with the new machine, but even though the machine arrived in Dallas last Wed, the local company was closed until today, so I sorta-lost one of my two weeks of vacation just waiting.

Sorry to hear about your earlier motor problems. At least the DC motor and variable speed was something positive - that was a great upgrade on my HF 8x14 machine. I am even "considering" variable speed setup in my 12x36 lathe as well, but I have to first "get to know" my new lathe before I start messing with it 😉

Will

 

[wquiles]

Re: my new lathe ... Precision Matthews 12x36 ... arrived!

The lathe is here!

Not a trailer, but a big truck (my lathe was the only thing in the truck). The single delivery guy and I pushed it up my driveway - it was not bad at all:

like somebody here before, that lift gate was very tilted - scary!

there was some superficial damage to the outer shell, but no damage internally:

here is the current "target":

The bases are actually made of steel and look pretty beefy:

after getting more of the case removed, we can see the actual machine (of course dirty and full of the packing grease, but it definitely has "potential"):

kit of tools/parts (6" chuck already installed, the 8" chuck and the 10" face plate are there as well):

getting ready to assemble the base (the adjustable feet arrive later today, which will be great since I want to raise it some as well):

The digital readout display unit (scales/guides already installed):

Taking a break for lunch - more work and more photos later 😉

Will

 

[precisionworks]

COOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

The base cabinets are the nicest I've seen, comparable to those on my South Bend. Most imported bases will sway in the breeze, but yours look substantial😀

A rough guide to proper center height (for you only) is the distance from the floor to your forearm, with your forearm held horizontally. It may seem tall, and it's almost always taller than any factory stand, but your back will never ache.

 

[tx101]

Cant wait until you "christen" your new lathe :twothumbs

 

[Mirage_Man]

Awesome. How long before you're up and running?

Does a D M@G body fit inside the spindle?

Just a little tip about the quick change gear box. You can change the feed gears while running but not the speed gears. In fact it's mucho easier to change the feeds while it's running.

 

[wquiles]

The mounting/leveling feet came today as expected - each one is rated to 1000 pounds (1/2" screw):

Since the bolts are so long, this is the minimum height increase (about 3 and 1/2" which is nearly perfect!):

I then installed the foot brake:

Here I am leveling the base using my good Al woodworking level (my used Starrett 199 does not arrive until next week):

Here I am almost ready to start the "fun" part of lifting and moving the late:

Will

 

[wquiles]

Awesome. How long before you're up and running?

Does a D M@G body fit inside the spindle?

Just a little tip about the quick change gear box. You can change the feed gears while running but not the speed gears. In fact it's mucho easier to change the feeds while it's running.

I think I might be OK. Let the pictures speak for themselves 😉

This is a standard 3D Mag:

this is as far as it will go:

seen from above:

I bet that if I touch a little that part of the spindle (without the chuck and mounting plate for better access of course) with a sharp carbide boring bar, I might be able to make it go even deeper, but it looks like for now this is pretty darn good :devil:

Will

 

[cmacclel]

Will you should be fine!

Cool I hope you have her up and running soon. I played with coolant today and let me say it SUCKS 🙂 Freaking MESS MAKER! It took me 1/2 hour to clean the machine making sure I got it all wiped up 🙂 I guess it stinks to be anal like myself 🙂

Mac