Mirage_Man
Flashlight Enthusiast
LOL did you get any on you? That's why I want a totally enclosed rig some day.
my new lathe ... Precision Matthews 12x36 ...
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LOL did you get any on you? That's why I want a totally enclosed rig some day.
Nope none on me. But now my whole shop smells like Trim E206 🙂 I mixed it at 8% so it's strong. I didn't use the factory coolant tank. I removed the pump from the left pedastal and put it in a 31 quart plastic container directly under the chip pan so I can easily clean the way oil out. My machine oils itself for 15 seconds every hour of operation so way oil is everywhere!
Mac
precisionworks
Flashaholic
I run synthetic on both the band saw & the cold saw ... no rusting problems, and it never gets wiped off. If it bothers you badly, spray the machine down with WD-40 or some other water displacing aerosol, especially the chuck, the ways, and the carriage.
I spray the lathe with WD-40 after every use, even though there's no flood on the machine. It isn't lubricant, but it is a good, short term rust preventive.
I spray the lathe with WD-40 after every use, even though there's no flood on the machine. It isn't lubricant, but it is a good, short term rust preventive.
precisionworks
Flashaholic
I bought the last pail on eBay, about $100 to make 100 (mixed) gallons. Works well, looks pretty because of the blue color🙂
http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Gal-CIMTECH-9...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Gal-CIMTECH-9...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
Anglepoise
Flashlight Enthusiast
For amateur use on my home lathe, I have kept away from coolant. My tank has never seen use since new.
And it never will be.
I use a brush or squirt / drip bottle. I use different fluids depending on
what I am turning. Most of what I do is Aluminum and a 75% Kerosene
25% baby oil works perfectly for this metal.
Yes I have to go a little slower, especially in Ti, but the benefits of not using flood coolant far out way using it. No smell and clothes that don't stink up the house.
I suppose it all boils down to personal preference.
I just remembered, and looked it up.
Page A87 of the Sandvik metal cutting guide has a whole page on why one should NOT use coolant with modern inserts.
And it never will be.
I use a brush or squirt / drip bottle. I use different fluids depending on
what I am turning. Most of what I do is Aluminum and a 75% Kerosene
25% baby oil works perfectly for this metal.
Yes I have to go a little slower, especially in Ti, but the benefits of not using flood coolant far out way using it. No smell and clothes that don't stink up the house.
I suppose it all boils down to personal preference.
I just remembered, and looked it up.
Page A87 of the Sandvik metal cutting guide has a whole page on why one should NOT use coolant with modern inserts.
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One of the machinists at work switched from TRIM SOL to the Cimcool in that auction and it took all the purdy blue paint of his Kurt Vise 🙂
Mac
precisionworks
Flashaholic
Synthetics, mixed with 90% to 95% water, have no smell & never get rancid.
That's strange, as it hasn't done anything to either the band saw (which has not much paint to start with) or the Wilton Willy cold saw, which still looks like new. But I've never used it on the mill, so none has ever gotten on my Kurt.
I have had a bad head cold for the last couple of days, so very little progress done. However, my neighbor came yesterday and we got the lathe on the stand!!!
Here we are getting ready and we got the lathe strapped and on the air, using the manual's recommended method and lift point (not shown in these pics is that we added a second strap for extra safety):
here we got it on the stand (which we had to raise to clear the feet of the joist):
and here it is in position, with all 6 mounting bolts in place (not tight yet):
Right now the stand is too high, so I need to lower it a couple of inches, and start the "rough" balancing until my used Master Precision Level (Starrett 199) arrives some time next week. I was going to order the import model for $80-90, but found a good Starrett on Ebay and decided to go with it instead. As some of you already stated, having a good level is really an investment. I am not feeling great today so I just did some cleaning and re-arranging other stuff around the new lathe - basically making the shop more like an organized shop again 😉
I did install the DRO display unit last night, and tried it out (I will post some pictures soon). I am used the the "simpler" Shumatech DRO, and although this DRO is not a Newwall/Anilam, this thing is definitely more professional in every way. The scales are fully enclosed, and very smooth. This DRO is definitely some import brand (SINO, model SDS6-2V), but it is fully configurable, can store 200 tools, has lots of built-in arithmetic functions, and all kinds of conversions, modes, etc - still need to read and experiment more to learn how to fully utilize it, but so far it looks like it was a very good buy, and I would pick it again as a good bang/buck alternative. My Shumatech does display 3 decimal points, and then it has a "dot" that signals 1/2 of a mill, so that you have some sort of indication past 3 digits - this DRO can display in inches at either 4 of 5 decimals points! (I left it 4 decimals points since I can't move the hand wheels that precisely anyway).
If I do feel a little bit better tomorrow, I will be going to Lowes to get the necessary 220V cord and AC plug so that I can power the machine to start doing the initial burn-in of the gears as the manual recommends, so tomorrow I hope to power it for the first time!
Will
Here we are getting ready and we got the lathe strapped and on the air, using the manual's recommended method and lift point (not shown in these pics is that we added a second strap for extra safety):
here we got it on the stand (which we had to raise to clear the feet of the joist):
and here it is in position, with all 6 mounting bolts in place (not tight yet):
Right now the stand is too high, so I need to lower it a couple of inches, and start the "rough" balancing until my used Master Precision Level (Starrett 199) arrives some time next week. I was going to order the import model for $80-90, but found a good Starrett on Ebay and decided to go with it instead. As some of you already stated, having a good level is really an investment. I am not feeling great today so I just did some cleaning and re-arranging other stuff around the new lathe - basically making the shop more like an organized shop again 😉
I did install the DRO display unit last night, and tried it out (I will post some pictures soon). I am used the the "simpler" Shumatech DRO, and although this DRO is not a Newwall/Anilam, this thing is definitely more professional in every way. The scales are fully enclosed, and very smooth. This DRO is definitely some import brand (SINO, model SDS6-2V), but it is fully configurable, can store 200 tools, has lots of built-in arithmetic functions, and all kinds of conversions, modes, etc - still need to read and experiment more to learn how to fully utilize it, but so far it looks like it was a very good buy, and I would pick it again as a good bang/buck alternative. My Shumatech does display 3 decimal points, and then it has a "dot" that signals 1/2 of a mill, so that you have some sort of indication past 3 digits - this DRO can display in inches at either 4 of 5 decimals points! (I left it 4 decimals points since I can't move the hand wheels that precisely anyway).
If I do feel a little bit better tomorrow, I will be going to Lowes to get the necessary 220V cord and AC plug so that I can power the machine to start doing the initial burn-in of the gears as the manual recommends, so tomorrow I hope to power it for the first time!
Will
precisionworks
Flashaholic
Lookin good, Will😀
The way the motor is mounted, it would be a piece of cake to replace it with a larger motor & VFD control. The added benefit to that conversion is that by relocating the motor, you can add vibration isolation to the motor mount.
The way the motor is mounted, it would be a piece of cake to replace it with a larger motor & VFD control. The added benefit to that conversion is that by relocating the motor, you can add vibration isolation to the motor mount.
In fact, it was much due to your advice that I ended up with the lathe were it stands. Thanks to you I basically planned ahead - whether or not I do the VFD, I wanted flexibility. My initial location would have been very challenging to attempt the VFD control, so I decided for this location as it allows me complete access all around the machine 😉
Will
StrikerDown
Enlightened
Will,
Congratulations, that is a beautiful piece of hardware. :twothumbs
I had pretty much decided I was going to try to get the Grizzly G4003G... til seeing yours. :thinking:
Having read several of your posts it seems that you have most likely done a lot of homework here so I have a question.
Does this beast let you dial up different threads without a change gear swap?
How about the Grizz?
One of your reasons for choosing the Matthews was the gearbox is that right? Is the only difference noise?
Thanks for any help. I thought I had made up my mind!
Last night/this morning while waiting for the ball to drop the link I had to the Grizzly catalog quit working. I noticed this a couple minutes after midnight! I had to go back to Grizzly's home page where I found that they updated the website promptly around midnight with the new 2009 catalog and lo... the G4003G is now $200 higher! So I have even less incentive to pick their lathe.
Ray
Congratulations, that is a beautiful piece of hardware. :twothumbs
I had pretty much decided I was going to try to get the Grizzly G4003G... til seeing yours. :thinking:
Having read several of your posts it seems that you have most likely done a lot of homework here so I have a question.
Does this beast let you dial up different threads without a change gear swap?
How about the Grizz?
One of your reasons for choosing the Matthews was the gearbox is that right? Is the only difference noise?
Thanks for any help. I thought I had made up my mind!
Last night/this morning while waiting for the ball to drop the link I had to the Grizzly catalog quit working. I noticed this a couple minutes after midnight! I had to go back to Grizzly's home page where I found that they updated the website promptly around midnight with the new 2009 catalog and lo... the G4003G is now $200 higher! So I have even less incentive to pick their lathe.
Ray
SafetyBob
Enlightened
I was looking at that lathe too. I believe it does have a "real" gearbox.
My very, very old ancient lathe has a gear box too. I was told 16 years ago when I got my old lathe from a machinist to always get a lathe with a gear box on it if you could afford it. I spent really good cash on this old lathe (3,000) and for roughly 1,000 more I could have had a new lathe at the time. The lathe I want now is roughly 7 to 8 thousand. I like my old lathe but would like to have a new one now that my skills are much better and I am ready to do extreamely nice work vs. just making something OK.
Key point here is, if you can afford it, get a lathe with a gear box and as nice as you can with all the features you can afford with a DRO being on top of the list, particularly if you have already used a lathe for awhile (I don't care how big or how nice), the DRO will add mountains to usability and speed of use.
Bob E.
My very, very old ancient lathe has a gear box too. I was told 16 years ago when I got my old lathe from a machinist to always get a lathe with a gear box on it if you could afford it. I spent really good cash on this old lathe (3,000) and for roughly 1,000 more I could have had a new lathe at the time. The lathe I want now is roughly 7 to 8 thousand. I like my old lathe but would like to have a new one now that my skills are much better and I am ready to do extreamely nice work vs. just making something OK.
Key point here is, if you can afford it, get a lathe with a gear box and as nice as you can with all the features you can afford with a DRO being on top of the list, particularly if you have already used a lathe for awhile (I don't care how big or how nice), the DRO will add mountains to usability and speed of use.
Bob E.
precisionworks
Flashaholic
+1
A DRO, on either the lathe or mill, eliminates lots of high dollar mistakes. It will pay for itself in that area alone.
It's great that the PM machine is already set up for flood coolant. You can work around that with a squirt bottle, and I've probably pumped a zillion gallons that way, but it is much less effective than heavy flood coolant applied directly to the tool/work interface. As you begin to work with more difficult materials, like Ti, the flood becomes even more useful.
There are people who refuse to use flood, and arguments can be made that it can be messy, can cause rusting, etc. But dry machining is limited to one half the SFPM of flood cooled machining. On top of that, surface finishes are almost always better wet, with a few exceptions.
Here you can see better the DRO install bracket - very sturdy!
Today I was able to get the stuff for wiring the new lathe. Instead of a direct connection to the power box, and again following precisionworks's advice on the VFD, I decided on a modular approach: bring 220 to the lathe's stand) and then have a short connection to the electrical box. This makes the 220V work future proof 😉
First the actual 220 box (note this is NOT yet connected on the other side to the HOT 220 outlet!):
the box is solidly grounded to the metal base:
Here I prepare the short run for the electrical box:
here I work on the side going to the HOT 220V. I am just using the outlet on the lathe (which is not connected) to hold the pins while I get them wired:
I then proceeded to check the level on the 3 gearboxes, and place some strong magnets near the draining bolts, here in the threading/fee gear box:
and this one right under the drain for the main gearbox:
The main gear box needed some fluid:
and also the threading/feet gearbox (the 3rd one in the carriage was nice and full):
here is the DRO powered - very nice - I am so glad I got a DRO on my lathe!
I then tested everything, making sure grounds were good/solid, and that I did not have any exposed 120V or 220V, and everything went well. I also installed the pieces for the foot brake and verified its operation - this is a VERY nice option indeed!.
That is all for today. If I get some time tomorrow I will start the break-in period of the gears 😉
Will
Today I was able to get the stuff for wiring the new lathe. Instead of a direct connection to the power box, and again following precisionworks's advice on the VFD, I decided on a modular approach: bring 220 to the lathe's stand) and then have a short connection to the electrical box. This makes the 220V work future proof 😉
First the actual 220 box (note this is NOT yet connected on the other side to the HOT 220 outlet!):
the box is solidly grounded to the metal base:
Here I prepare the short run for the electrical box:
here I work on the side going to the HOT 220V. I am just using the outlet on the lathe (which is not connected) to hold the pins while I get them wired:
I then proceeded to check the level on the 3 gearboxes, and place some strong magnets near the draining bolts, here in the threading/fee gear box:
and this one right under the drain for the main gearbox:
The main gear box needed some fluid:
and also the threading/feet gearbox (the 3rd one in the carriage was nice and full):
here is the DRO powered - very nice - I am so glad I got a DRO on my lathe!
I then tested everything, making sure grounds were good/solid, and that I did not have any exposed 120V or 220V, and everything went well. I also installed the pieces for the foot brake and verified its operation - this is a VERY nice option indeed!.
That is all for today. If I get some time tomorrow I will start the break-in period of the gears 😉
Will
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Thanks 😱
I only have the PM12x36 for a few days, and today was the first time that I actually got it working, but so far I can honestly say that I would still order the PM12x36 over the Grizzly machine. Also, get the PM DRO - very, very nice for the money!
Will
Alan B
Flashlight Enthusiast
Great photos!
I could be wrong, but - It looks like the red/black are reversed from plug to jack. It also looks like a neutral to ground short in the plug? This is also not code and can be dangerous.
If I recall correctly it is not code to mount a flexible cable to a fixed outlet on a movable stand. Seems like we had to rewire a lot of stuff years ago due to this at work. Probably not a big problem.
The footing base is very small front to back, that whole stand/lathe appears to be quite unstable. In a small tremor it would go right over. Is it designed to bolt to the floor? We design for 1G in all directions here in California these days. Looks dangerous to me, maybe in Texas it is okay.
-- Alan
I could be wrong, but - It looks like the red/black are reversed from plug to jack. It also looks like a neutral to ground short in the plug? This is also not code and can be dangerous.
If I recall correctly it is not code to mount a flexible cable to a fixed outlet on a movable stand. Seems like we had to rewire a lot of stuff years ago due to this at work. Probably not a big problem.
The footing base is very small front to back, that whole stand/lathe appears to be quite unstable. In a small tremor it would go right over. Is it designed to bolt to the floor? We design for 1G in all directions here in California these days. Looks dangerous to me, maybe in Texas it is okay.
-- Alan
Good eye 😉 I will try my best to answer your questions/points:
- The instructions that came with the 220v gear from home depot call for "either" red or black on the hot terminals, so I was not trying to keep them all the same, but you are right, commonly it is wired the other way around. The lathe forward and reverse work as expected, so the end result was good.
- None of my 220V machines, including the new lathe, came prepared for the newer 4 terminal 220V outlets:
- hot 1
- hot 2
- return for 1&2
- earth ground
All of my machines have just the hot1, hot2, and return, so instead of not connecting the extra wire for the earth ground, I connect it to the metal chassis, which is what the electrician who installed my 220V outset set to do (those two are tied/shorted together at the distribution box). This is why you see the plug coming from the lathe with those two pins shorted.
- The "hot" 220V wire will be disconnected from the wall when the lathe is not in use. In fact I have to install a small hook to coil the wire while not in use - code or not, I did not felt comfortable having a "live" 220 wire on the floor either 😉
- I would also like if the base of the lathe were wider. Right now I have not yet lowered and level the lathe, so it is currently sitting too high. The lathe is designed to work sitting on the floor or bolted, but given the rarity of earthquakes where I live, I am not bolting it to the floor (keeping fingers crossed!)
Will
The HOT colors do not matter wiring 220v. You just have 2 120v legs and a green equipment ground. Talk about overkill Will 🙂 You could have ran 14/2 to that machine with plenty to spare. The motor draws around 9 amps full load 🙂 I ran mine with 12/2. That white wire that ships with the lathe appears to be the same cheesy wire I had on my grizzly, I believe it's 16ga.
Will I believe the reason for the 4way 220v outlets is the fact that many dryers and ranges have 110v electronics that need the neutral. Straight 220v machines only need 2 120v phases. The Equipment ground is just for saftey.
My new lathe draws 25amps MAX and I wired like you with a Home Depot 50 amp Dryer cord setup into a custom box PVC box with the outlet on the right side. Also I relocated the Rotary Phase converter Stop/Start from upstairs to in the shop 🙂
Will I believe the reason for the 4way 220v outlets is the fact that many dryers and ranges have 110v electronics that need the neutral. Straight 220v machines only need 2 120v phases. The Equipment ground is just for saftey.
My new lathe draws 25amps MAX and I wired like you with a Home Depot 50 amp Dryer cord setup into a custom box PVC box with the outlet on the right side. Also I relocated the Rotary Phase converter Stop/Start from upstairs to in the shop 🙂
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StrikerDown
Enlightened
Your "extension cord" is wired backwards but it won't effect the rotation of the motor in single phase AC. If it were 3 phase (3 hots) then changing any two of the three will change rotation of the motor due to the phase relationship of 3 phase AC.
Since you are using an "extension cord" you probably should change the red and black to eleminate future confusion. No it is not code but I understand your concern about the 220V on the floor and being ablt to disconnect. Have you considered running conduit from the panel to the ceiling above the lathe with twist lock drop cord?
Are there 3 conductors coming from the new machine or 4?
The neutral (white) should not be connected to the ground (green) at the machine or any where outside of the power panel on the side of the house.
If there are 4 conductors coming from the lathe then the white should only be connected to white all the way back to the power panel. The green should only be connected to green all the way back to the power panel. The hot leads connected to hot leads all the way back to the power panel.
What you want to avoid is connecting the white and green outside of the panel. It is a safety issue should you ever get the wrong combination of loose connections it could be a killer. This is not very likely but using an extension cord does increase the risk.
If you had hard wired from the panel to the machine then it would not matter what the color of the hot wires you just can't use white or green.
If your lathe has only three conductors 2 Hot and a Neutral (wh) you should probably change out the lead to 3 conductor with ground and connect the ground to a substantial chassis ground in the machine.
If it has 3 conductors 2 hot and a ground (gr) then the machine either completely runs on 220V or uses an internal stepdown transformer for any 110V requirements like the work light or electronics. In this case you don't need the neutral conductor at all. Just don't jumper between the neutral and ground connections in the male connector.
Since you are using an "extension cord" you probably should change the red and black to eleminate future confusion. No it is not code but I understand your concern about the 220V on the floor and being ablt to disconnect. Have you considered running conduit from the panel to the ceiling above the lathe with twist lock drop cord?
Are there 3 conductors coming from the new machine or 4?
The neutral (white) should not be connected to the ground (green) at the machine or any where outside of the power panel on the side of the house.
If there are 4 conductors coming from the lathe then the white should only be connected to white all the way back to the power panel. The green should only be connected to green all the way back to the power panel. The hot leads connected to hot leads all the way back to the power panel.
What you want to avoid is connecting the white and green outside of the panel. It is a safety issue should you ever get the wrong combination of loose connections it could be a killer. This is not very likely but using an extension cord does increase the risk.
If you had hard wired from the panel to the machine then it would not matter what the color of the hot wires you just can't use white or green.
If your lathe has only three conductors 2 Hot and a Neutral (wh) you should probably change out the lead to 3 conductor with ground and connect the ground to a substantial chassis ground in the machine.
If it has 3 conductors 2 hot and a ground (gr) then the machine either completely runs on 220V or uses an internal stepdown transformer for any 110V requirements like the work light or electronics. In this case you don't need the neutral conductor at all. Just don't jumper between the neutral and ground connections in the male connector.
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