My PM-1236 finally arrived

StrikerDown

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Often wondered why my PM 14x40 did not come with a safety cover, it would help keep tho oil off the wall... And ceiling!
 

darkzero

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I got sick of the chuck safety cover real quick, took that stupid thing off & tossed it in the trash. Well not really, it's stored in right side lathe cabinet. But yeah for me it just gets in the way & slows me down. Taking it off made a huge difference.
 

precisionworks

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Same thing here. Half the machines at the college where I teach have those darned covers & even with the cover raised up I manage to bang my head on them a lot. If it were up to me those covers would get disappeared but sadly I am NOT the final authority LOL.
____________________________________________________

We were discussing lathe cleanliness a few posts back & this is how I collect chips & oil (Relton Rapid Tap). If you've ever kept a canary or other caged bird it's the same approach:

Image-9853934-228954397-2-Web_0_c6e9b9930fe0db27a4190d0691c9b8ea_1


First, put down one or two layers of paper toweling. The place a chip tray (aka cookie pan) as close as possible to the chuck so that most chips are gravity fed into the tray. What misses the tray hits the paper toweling so chip & oil cleanup is fast.
 
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darkzero

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We were discussing lathe cleanliness a few posts back

Here's one of my so called "secrets". I use 3M premasked films for whenever I'm sanding/final finishing. Just pull a piece off & tape to the backsplash. I believe 3M discontinued the size I'm using but I stocked up on them when all the local hardware stores were closing out the refills for dirt cheap. Just have to make sure the power feed rod or leadscrew are not engaged or you'll have a fruit roll up.

I normally use my stock 3 jaw chuck for sanding/polishing though.
Img_0429.jpg



EDIT: Here's a better pic.
IMG_9116.jpg
 
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precisionworks

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That's a scary looking image of the Jacobs chuck part in a jawed chuck. I use my jawed chucks (3-jaw & 4-jaw) for some work but switch to the 5C whenever machining close to the chuck:

Image-9853934-228977817-2-Web_0_3b0b3ef0b8cc22d1ac872703a16b0997_1

(SWM V10R Ti head shown above, cutting down to remove the engraving)

Accuracy is higher, support is much better & it's almost impossible to scratch or mar the part. After machining it's dead safe to touch the part with 600 grit paper or a nonwoven pad ... while the part is spinning at 2000 rpm.

On top of that there are at least three workholding options:
  • 5C collet as shown above
  • Internal expanding 5C collet
  • Expanding straight shank arbor, usable in any chuck

If that weren't enough and adjustable stop can be fitted to any 5C collet if a number of the same parts are being machined. I'm partial to Breakheart Tools & use much of the tooling they sell. Made in USA, great customer service. http://www.breakhearttool.com/products
 
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darkzero

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That's a scary looking image of the Jacobs chuck part in a jawed chuck. I use my jawed chucks (3-jaw & 4-jaw) for some work but switch to the 5C whenever machining close to the chuck

Yup I know but I made out fine rebuilding my 3 14N chucks. Good luck trying to fit the piece shown in a 5C collet chuck though, it's 1.75"Ø. I made out fine although I normally use my China 3 jaw for polishing bigger stuff (just a quick polish & my Bison will be getting a thorough cleaning soon anyway).

Img_0426.jpg




My 3 "now new" Made in Hartford CT 14N BB chucks (no way I'm buying the overshore made new ones).
Img_0492.jpg



They were are in need of a "rebuild", only replaced the jaws on one of them, the others just clean & regrease.
Img_0353.jpg


Img_0377.jpg


Img_0439.jpg




I'm partial to Breakheart Tools & use much of the tooling they sell. Made in USA

Yup, nice stuff, I've used some of their stuff but don't own anything from them myself, not yet anyway. I've only had my eye on their expanding arbor set & could have used it plenty of times already. Keep forgetting to place an order, thanks for the reminder. Their sets are priced very well too, what's funny is the last time I looked, the import sets cost more than what Breakheart is selling them for. :thinking: :laughing:
 
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darkzero

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Well since this was a double post & I can't delete it, might as well make use of the space....


adjustable stop can be fitted to any 5C collet if a number of the same parts are being machined.

I don't own any 5C collets, been fine without them & just use ER collets in my lathe. Maybe one day if I score a Sjorgen/Atlas collet chuck for cheap.

This is what I use for a spindle work stop, made by Yuasa. Mounts inside the spindle bore & I can use it with any of my jaw chucks or collet chuck & I can make new/custom size stop rods for it too if/when needed. Takes longer to set up but I'm pretty happy with it.


Img_8179_zps02cc0607.jpg


Img_8023_zpsc0d86940.jpg


Img_8056_zps94e7af20.jpg
 
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will

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Just a quick thought concerning plastic sheeting or paper towels on the lathe ways to keep them clean. At some point in time, cutting something that does not chip, but rather comes off in a 'coil'

that coil will eventually catch the sheets on the ways and spin them like you have never seen...

be careful....
 

darkzero

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IMO bird's nesting is worse but yup, I saw a guy attach a retractable roller window blind or something to protect the ways from chips & thought the same thing. "Normal" chips don't bother me at all. I only use the masking film for sanding & polishing (by hand), carriage is far off to the side.

Only other time I cover the ways (when machining) is for cast iron or removing the outer scale on hot rolled. I normally use an old t-shirt but if I don't have one available I'll resort to whatever is around.
 

precisionworks

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Whenever I ream a light (aluminum or Ti) one paper towel lays on top of the compound. The reason is that Relton Rapid Tap is pumped into the bore & the reamer is flooded as well. I go through a lot of Rapid Tap although it takes less than Tap Magic. Much of the fluid ends up on top of the compound & the paper towel makes it quick to clean up.
 

will

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Paper towels are better than cloth, Paper will tear into pieces fairly easily, Cloth - not so much.

( and yes - this is experience talking )
 

darkzero

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Much of the fluid ends up on top of the compound & the paper towel makes it quick to clean up.

I do the same thing using those blue shop towels to catch the excess lube coming off the knurling wheels for threading.


Paper towels are better than cloth, Paper will tear into pieces fairly easily, Cloth - not so much.

I never cover the ways for materials that produce long chips, don't see a reason too. I only cover for cast iron, hot roll scale, fiber resins, etc, anything that turns to powder that can get into the carriage & cross slide ways.
 

precisionworks

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I never cover the ways for materials that produce long chips, don't see a reason too. I only cover for cast iron, hot roll scale, fiber resins, etc, anything that turns to powder that can get into the carriage & cross slide ways.
I've never been able to figure out how any foreign material can get into those places. Perhaps if you clean with high pressure air (which I do), run abrasive paper & non-woven against parts (do that too) or run the machine ways dry ... which I do NOT.

IMHO the best protection for the lathe is a constant coat of Vactra #2. Wet ways catch anything that falls onto them - wipe off with paper towel, apply more #2, repeat as needed.

Dry or semi dry ways are the death sentence for a lathe. A 5-gallon bucket of Vactra lasts quite a while, even when constantly re applying.

My Vactra is in a 1-quart Dutton Lainson Goldenrod pump can (flex spout). The Rapid Tap is in an identical pump can. Finally painted them different colors :)

http://www.dutton-lainson.com/products.php?cat=50

If you cannot see overhead lighting reflected by the way oil you may need to add more. This image taken after running the lathe for an hour & sliding the TS back & forth many times:

Image-9853934-229039688-2-WebSmall_0_5f98ab3285fabeb17adc87aefda1f2f4_1
 
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darkzero

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I've never been able to figure out how any foreign material can get into those places. Perhaps if you clean with high pressure air (which I do), run abrasive paper & non-woven against parts (do that too) or run the machine ways dry ... which I do NOT.

I see the opposite, I think all that fine dust can get in those places easily. Abrasive dust mixed with way oil makes instant lapping paste. CI powder mixed with oil turns into a slurry, one reason not to use cutting oil with CI. The carriage has wipers & they should do their job, but my cross slide & compound slide don't have wipers, neither does the tailstock (not so much worried about the TS). Still the slurry can get past wipers. My lathe came with rubber type wipers. Been meaning to try some felt wipers. With the chuck spinning it sucks this dust in too. I do use compressed air also but not close to areas where fine particles like what I take the time to protect from could get pushed in areas of concern.

When the unwanted particles lands on the oiled ways, sure it can be just wiped off & reoiled but what do you when you are machining, with the carriage or cross slide moving back & forward? I know I can't protect all of it from getting in but I'll take the time to try & prevent much of it from having a chance of getting in unwanted places. Carbon Fiber, G10, fiberglass, etc gets nasty when mixed with way oil & really gums things up. Luckily I have not had the pleasure of having to disassemble parts to clean it out. I was taught to cover if I cared anything about the life of machine I'm using. I was taught to do it, not how. I'm certainly not the only one who practices this. Nothing is right or wrong here, people have their own methods in dealing with it, but the intent is the same.


1-quart Dutton Lainson Goldenrod pump can (flex spout).
I have one of those Goldenrods with a flex spout but only a 12oz'r. Really liked it at first but I quickly came to dislike it. That thing leaked like crazy, always sitting in a puddle of Vactra everytime I went to pick it up. Turns out my flex spout was poorly made & leaked in multiple areas, some clear silicone made it better.

Finally I got a rigid spout for it, problem solved. I do have a replacement flex spout for it too but haven't tried it yet. Either they're not what they used to be or my flex spout was just defective. Others have reported this same issue & even leaking from the can, luckily mine does not. Between this Goldenrod & my other oilers, I'm happy. Just sucks that there's not a good selection of quality made oilers anymore.
 

tino_ale

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One thing I find weird if that a good wiper will basically push any oil that is present on the ways when the carriage is moved. It will leave the way surface almost dry. This is what I see on my lathe and I can't imagine being otherwise if the wipers, well, wipe efficiently.

Why doesn't the way lubrication rely on the nipple oilers alone ? It kinda makes sense to me that the lubrication is "contained" in the carriage. Besides rust protection, I see no advantage of oiling the ways any more than a light coat. Any massive coat gets wiped away and simply drips on the chip pan.
 

precisionworks

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One thing I find weird if that a good wiper will basically push any oil that is present on the ways when the carriage is moved. It will leave the way surface almost dry. This is what I see on my lathe and I can't imagine being otherwise if the wipers, well, wipe efficiently.
As soon as the wipers wear in they stop being wipers & become pushers. All they do is push chips out of the way.

... I see no advantage of oiling the ways any more than a light coat. Any massive coat gets wiped away and simply drips on the chip pan.
What brand & type of way oil are you using? Vactra #2 easily lasts a full hour, sometimes more, with both the carriage & TS constantly being moved back & forth. The TS is really sensitive when no film is present & will let you know quickly that more way oil is needed.

My TS has two positions - all the way at the far right end of the bed & all the way at the far left end of the bed. Most of the time it carries a heavy Jacobs #20 Super Chuck & the two together are quite a bit of weight. The carriage mostly stays within a few inches of the chuck & is only moved a long way when spindle tools are changed out (as in 3-jaw/5C/4-jaw/5C/faceplate/5C/etc.).
 

tino_ale

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Ok the explanation is that my wipers are new and wipe the ways clean and almost dry. Will see how they evolve after a while, but it makes sense they work that way, isn't it how they're supposed to be. In which case oiling heavily the ways make little sense.

My TS on the other hand has no wipers and there I can see how a good amount of oil helps it glide on it.
 

precisionworks

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My TS on the other hand has no wipers and there I can see how a good amount of oil helps it glide on it.
Machined surfaces can last a long time as long as a film of oil separates the sliding elements. The first shop I worked in was 1970 & the machine shop manager, a real old timer, carried a pump oil can with him every where. When he saw a dry or near dry surface he fixed it.

A big advantage of Vactra #2 is that Mobil states:
Mobil Vactra Oil Numbered Series can be used for lubrication of ballscrews, linear guides, headstocks, translating screws, spur and bevel gears, and lightly loaded worm gears
And yes, it gets pumped into the apron, gear box, headstock, etc. of my lathe. If your lathe specs out something else by all means use what is recommended - which many times is Mobil DTE-26.

Vactra will NOT pump into any of the oil buttons on my machine & for that Mobil Velocite #10 is used. It's pretty thin, ISO VG22, but it pumps nicely & is a highly refined oil used in many machine tool applications.

In the USA Mobil owns the machinery oil market.
 

darkzero

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Ok the explanation is that my wipers are new and wipe the ways clean and almost dry.

Also depends on the type of wipers. Some machines use a rubber type, some use felt.


Vactra will NOT pump into any of the oil buttons on my machine & for that Mobil Velocite #10 is used.

Generally what is recommended for the oilers for the carriage leadscrew & power feed shaft? I first used to pump Vactra for those rotating shafts but I felt like #2 was a bit thick? Now I pump DTE-26 into them. Is that fine or should I be using something else?
 

tino_ale

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Hi guys,

I have broken both ends of my Dorian SIGH19-2 blade, a $80 mistake.

I'm pretty sure I was doing everything right except for the squareness (0.015 out of square across the lenght of the blade, which doesn't seem much) maybe too low RPM and maybe to slow feed (it was kinda hard to plunge and didn't feel like pushing harder).
Part OD was only maybe 1/2", unknown steel that has a really ugly finish. Thus far this double failure is still largely unexplained.

As I still have SGTN-2 Dorian inserts on hand so I kinda "had to" stick with this system (although I have found some feedback online from other people having issues with GTN parting blades) and ordered this replacement (19-2 size).

Stechschwert Hohe 26 und 32mm, Stechbreiten 2,3,4,5,6mm kompatibel zu ISCAR GTN | eBay
43 euros shipped, worth a try... don't know about the quality but we'll see. Last try with GTN inserts... finger crossed.

I almost ordered a larger 26-3 blade kit along with it (holder, blade and 10 inserts for 150 euros) as the 19-2 I have is limited to 40mm diameter parting :
Abstechen - Abstechset: Abstecheinsatze (2mm o. 3mm), Stechwert + Spannblock | eBay

But then I thought, GTN inserts have not worked that well for me thus far, maybe I should just switch to another type of blade and inserts alltogether for the larger diameter. So I'm shopping for a bigger parting blade, tougher than GTN blades, and found that Iscar "Do-Grip" blades seem to be a solid offering and probably the way to go.

I would like to be able to part at least 80mm diameter work. I don't have any bandsaw so all the parting has to be made on the lathe, for ANY project.
It seems being able to part 80mm requires at least a 26-4 blade but I wonder if 4mm width parting won't put too much stress on my 1236 ? Your thoughts ?

Another issue : I have tried finding out how high will be the shank tool holder + blade holder + blade, no that easy to find out, as far as I can tell, the resulting setup will bottom out, only have 30mm+ of compound-to-centerline heignt on the 1236. Am I going to be limited to 19mm blades ? I've got a Dorian QCTP. Google for the larger BXA 71-26 HD holder but it's discontinued. Then there is the Aloris BXA-71 with it's huge blade available in 3mm width but then again it's GTN type inserts...

Any help sourcing a solid large diameter parting setup will be appreciated.
 
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