My Surefire U2 (100 Lumen) brighter than Fenix P1dce CREE '135' Lumens!

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xiaowenzu

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Re: My Surefire U2 (100 Lumen) brighter than Fenix P1dce '135' Lumens!

Lobo said:
But if you insist, as I said before, other better comparisions between LuxV and Cree would be Lumapower M1, Huntlight FT01 etc.

That would certainly be an interesting comparison! :D Definitely, the crees would have longer runtime than the LUX V till 50% brightness. However I think it would be very close in terms of 'eyeball rating'... say at a distance of 25 feet, I think both lights will appear equally bright. This probably has to do with the fact that Surefire's extremely precise optics have the amazing ability to squeeze out every bit of potential the Lux V's have to offer. ;)

I'm pretty certain when Surefire implement CREEs in their lights, they'd squeeze every potential out of them too...it would be significantly brighter than their LUX V,versions and with be better runtimes. These Surefire optics are very well balanced, when it's seen by the naked eye, IMHO:)
 

yellow

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still I do not get the point.
one light eats the double current but uses older emitter and thus is a bit less, about same or a bit more brightness, than
the other, much smaller, light with the new emitters, being on par or a bit less bright, eating half the current and still running longer on max brightness.
:thinking:
Whatever the maker claims, thats what our test result sites are for.
Or do You all believe the e-Bay "1.000 million lumens out of a 5mm led"-claims?
:rolleyes:

my car's main beam is much more powerful than any of those and eats quite a lot more power --> surprised?
where is the point in this discussion?
 

Brum

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Re: My Surefire U2 (100 Lumen) brighter than Fenix P1dce '135' Lumens!

xiaowenzu said:
This probably has to do with the fact that Surefire's extremely precise optics have the amazing ability to squeeze out every bit of potential the Lux V's have to offer. ;)

I'm pretty certain when Surefire implement CREEs in their lights, they'd squeeze every potential out of them too...it would be significantly brighter than their LUX V,versions and with be better runtimes. These Surefire optics are very well balanced, when it's seen by the naked eye, IMHO:)

Well, not to offend you or something, but how is Lumapower ea not able to 'sqeeze every possible bit of light out of the emitter' while Surefire can? Thats pure nonsense IMHO. That it takes Surefire 3/4 of a year to incorporate new technology doesnt mean it cant be done by others in less time. I understand they do a lot of testing and probably have gone trough some protos before the final design, but if they wanted to the light had already hit the market.

But I agree with others, there is no comparision, they are completely different lights. Comparing it to a similar sized 1x18650/2xCR123 light would be much more logical.
 

Ty_Bower

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yellow said:
where is the point in this discussion?
I think you just made it.

"New" Cree technology puts out the same amount of light as "old" Luxeon V technology, but with only half the power requirements.
 

txmatt

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yellow said:
where is the point in this discussion?

In part someone wanting validation that their $270, 2-cell Surefire (a very nice light) hasn't been outshined by a $70 upstart, single-cell light (also a very nice light but in a different category).
 

robm

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I think the original point was that a Surefire light rated at 100 lumens appears 'brighter' than a Fenix light rated at 135 lumens.

I don't think this surprises anyone for, amongst others, the following reasons:

Surefire rate their light output conservatively, Fenix do not.
The Surefire U2 and the Fenix P1D-CE are different price bracket and type of lights.
Total light output is different to peak beam intensity, both of which are different to perceived 'brightness' - Lumens (light output) does not equal 'brightness' (for most people anyway).
 

Art Vandelay

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Brightness is like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. Brightness is not the same thing as luminance or radiance. Lumen, lux, mcd, are quantitative measures, they are objective. Brightness is subjective.

Normally, you would expect a much less expensive one cell light with a tiny head, to have much less lux than an mush more expensive two cell light with a much larger head. A larger head allows the light to be focused into a tighter beam, and lux measures the center of the beam.

FlashlightReviews.com and the LED museum both reviewed each of the lights. FLR measured both Lux at one meter and overall output (estimated lumens). The LED Museum measured the mcd (millicandelas) with a foot candle meter at one foot. The foot candle meter measurement was converted to millicandelas by adding three zeros the to measurement.

FlashlightReviews.com found that the P1D-CE had much higher Lux and, overall output than the U2. The LED Museum did not measure overall output, but they did measure the beam intensity at the center of the beam at one foot. The LED museum found that the mcd of the U2 was slightly higher than the mcd of the P1D-CE.

Slightly higher? Some will ask "How can you say it's only slightly higher? It's thousands higher." First, remember that they added three zeros to convert to mcds. Second, remember that light follows the inverse square law, as long as we take into account point source approximation, and the five times rule for [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]irradiance measurements [/font]. http://www.anees.com/6.html

Assuming the LED museums measurements are correct on both lights, the difference only means that the U2 will provide the same light at 43.47 feet as a P1D-CE will provide at 40.96. Rounded, they compare as 43 feet and 41 feet. That's not much to get excited about.

If you compare the numbers between the two review sites, you see something interesting. Each of the levels of the U2 are virtually the same (after conversion). This suggests to me that both measurements are accurate. When you compare the P1D-CE, the numbers are not even close. This suggests to me that one or both sites' measurement of the P1D-CE may be in error. The LED Museum measurement for the P1D-CE is much closer to Flashlightreviews.com measurement of the P1 than the P1D-CE.

FLR and The LED Museum are both tied with CPF as my favorite flashlight websites. Cheers to all three.:)
 

Streamer

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The result ... Fenix in Highest mode puts out [font=Verdana, Arial Black][font=Verdana, Arial]1,678,000 mcd (at target 12" away) The Surefire U2 puts out [/font][/font][font=Verdana, Arial Black][font=Verdana, Arial]1,890,000mcd! [/font][/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial][font=Verdana, Arial Black][/font][/font]

Kudos to Fenix to accomplish such a TASK and with only ONE CELL! SF surely second bested here, since it was used to make the comparison. I own neither.
 

kingoftf

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Don`t forget to mention the price Fenix 70 Dollar and the SF triple the price.
Compared with that the Fenix is the clear winner.......
 

iapyx

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kingoftf said:
Don`t forget to mention the price Fenix 70 Dollar and the SF triple the price.
Compared with that the Fenix is the clear winner.......

ehhrr.. does the Fenix have 6 levels of output?
Is it made as solidly as the U2?

We are comparing completely different products here...
 

txmatt

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Maybe the U2 and P1D CE would be a perfect combination for simultaneous use: the P1D CE would fill in the U2 donut and the U2 would fill in the Cree rings.
 

xiaowenzu

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I think the point of this discussion is that I'M bloody amazed that my Surefire U2 rated at 100lumens is brighter than the FENIX 135 lumens.. I always thought the p1dce was heaps brighter, until I compared them side by side. :D
 

GreySave

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<< Maybe the U2 and P1D CE would be a perfect combination for simultaneous use: the P1D CE would fill in the U2 donut and the U2
would fill in the Cree rings. >>
:lolsign:

That's priceless! But it is also a well made point. Every light in our arsenal has its own individual strengths and weaknesses. We can debate which is brighter or better all day long, just as we can debate price versus quality. Each light that we own is suitable for its own individual task, for better or worse.
 

daveman

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Re: My Surefire U2 (100 Lumen) brighter than Fenix P1dce '135' Lumens!

Outdoors Fanatic said:
A lemon?? Surefire never lied about the output of its products, quite the contrary, they underrate the lumen numbers by a good margin. Quite different from our asiatic friends's common business practice isnt it? So if anyone bought the older version of the U2 and got more than the originally stated 65 lumens, how's that paying for a lemon? They ADVERTISED the U2 as a 65 lumens flashlight, not 150!
If you paid $300 for a 75 Lumen U2, and I paid $300 for a 105 Lumen U2, you got a lemon...


Outdoors Fanatic said:
They are switching to Cree because of the increased runtimes, and that's pretty damn to clear to anyone who bothered browsing through their 2007 catalog. And nobody in this particular thread disagrees that the Cree XR-E is more efficient than Luxeons, nor has anyone mentioned that the Lux V is "better". The consensus here though, is that the Cree XR-E-- or SSC P4 for that matter, are not necessarily brighter than a good Luxeon 5. Quit the childish cynism will ya?
I see... so the XR-E LEDs are only more efficient than the Lux V LEDs, the Lux Vs are still brighter, in application, than the XR-Es. This theory is evidenced by the fact that the U2, with a Lux V LED, is brighter than the P1D CE, a XR-E LED.
So when Surefire drops their Lux V and Lux III emitter lights come June for the less bright XR-E emitters, all of Surefire's new lights will have a REDUCED output. Mmm...guess I'll have to stay away from Surefire lights if I want the brightest handheld lights.
 
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Outdoors Fanatic

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Re: My Surefire U2 (100 Lumen) brighter than Fenix P1dce '135' Lumens!

daveman said:
If you paid $300 for a 75 Lumen U2, and I paid $300 for a 105 Lumen U2, you got a lemon...



I see... so the XR-E LEDs are only more efficient than the Lux V LEDs, the Lux Vs are still brighter, in application, than the XR-Es. This theory is evidenced by the fact that the U2, with a Lux V LED, is brighter than the P1D CE, a XR-E LED.
So when Surefire drops their Lux V and Lux III emitter lights come June for the less bright XR-E emitters, all of Surefire's new lights will have a REDUCED output. Mmm...guess I'll have to stay away from Surefire lights if I want the brightest handheld lights.
So when Surefire drops their Lux V and Lux III emitter lights come June for the less bright XR-E emitters, all of Surefire's new lights will have a REDUCED output.

That's total nonsense. A SureFire with the XR-E, will still be a SureFire flashlight putting out SureFire lumens as promissed. A SF 120 lumens light will deliver at least 120 lumens, not 95 as certain brands do. It's about an honest manufacturer that stands by its products and refuse making false advertising. This isn't about Lux VS Cree, it's about inflated claims of some brands.
 

THE_dAY

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Re: My Surefire U2 (100 Lumen) brighter than Fenix P1dce '135' Lumens!

Outdoors Fanatic said:
That's total nonsense. A SureFire with the XR-E, will still be a SureFire flashlight putting out SureFire lumens as promissed. A SF 120 lumens light will deliver at least 120 lumens, not 95 as certain brands do. It's about an honest manufacturer that stands by its products and refuse making false advertising. This isn't about Lux VS Cree, it's about inflated claims of some brands.
i have to agree, it's about inflated claims... not only by fenix but by many manufacturers
 

Art Vandelay

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According to the reviews at Flashlightreviews.com the estimated lumens of a U2 is 76.45 and the estimated lumens of a P1D-CE is 109.115. Based on that the U2 is overrated by 23.55 lumens and the P1D-CE is overrated by 25.885 lumens. Before you say the U2 was a weak one, take a look at the review at LED Museum. On each and every level, the U2 measurements are close on the two sites.

Also, the U2s are going to vary much more between the individual units. Some will have a donut, some will not, some will have a good tint, some will have a less than good tint. With the P1D-CE, you have good idea what you are going to get before you open the package. :)

Remember these are some of the best companies. There is no reason to question the honesty of either one.
 

asdalton

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Re: My Surefire U2 (100 Lumen) brighter than Fenix P1dce '135' Lumens!

There is a brightness and tint lottery with the Cree LEDs, just as there was (and still is, though it's less severe than it used to be) with the Luxeons.

My P1D CE has the same ceiling-bounce output as my overachieving L5. On the other hand, my L0D CE seems to put out a lot less light than what other people claim to be getting from theirs. :shrug: I'm still very pleased with it, though.
 

Andromeda

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Done my conparison test, my U2 is definitely brighter than my P1Dce. I bounce both beam onto the ceiling, U2 reflected noticebly brighter.
 
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