New Lathe, PM1236

BVH

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The Roadaway truck showed up at 1:00. As the driver was maneuvering the skid to the back of the truck, I was quickly checking all sides to be sure there was no obvious damage. NONE seen! Once in the garage, I popped the top and everything looked good, no damage. I quickly checked all the precision surfaces. They all looked very good! Ok, I'll sign the receival slip and let the driver be on his way. I removed the rest of the crate and began cleaning at about 3:00. Took a two hour break for dinner and back to cleaning. Finished cleaning all painted and metal surfaces at about 11:00 PM. Looks 1000% better! I used Honda spray polish to clean the Cosmo off all painted surfaces and penetrating oil to do the metal surfaces. Both worked very quickly to get thru the Cosmo crust. I was surprised how fast the Honda polish worked. I re-oiled all the precision metal surfaces with Way oil.

I took the compound off and as with other machines, there are rocks n stuff in there. No problem cleaning this out. The mechanic in me wants to take off the crosslide. For surely there are more rocks there but I've never adjusted jibs before and don't know if this is something I should do down the road after having gained a bit more knowledge. Taking it off means I'll have to remove and replace the DRO slide too. Question: Should I take this leap and attempt to adjust the jibs and the DRO slide? I have the DRO manual and will read it but since I'm writing, I figured I ask those who've been here before.

Sadly, I probably won't have my stand risers until the weekend. After buying those pricy Footmaster casters and designing a number of versions of risers to accommodate them, I've decided to go with the Mason feet. The Footmasters just don't seem as strong and sturdy as the Masons. The Masons have close to 1.5 X's the floor contact area as compared to the Footmasters. The stand will be much more simple to build this way, too. 2x2, 1/4 wall square tubing instead of the 2x4, 1/4 wall that I was going to use. They will be simple rectangles matching the stand bottoms with short extensions sticking out front and back on the two outer tubes. Once everything is in-place, the welder will weld in two, 2x2 tubes connecting the two base risers to give me a complete box construction with the lathe acting as the top tube. Down the road, I'm going to have the welder make a tool tray between the stands. I just have to move the modesty shield to the back of the stands. To give me mobility, I'm making a "J" lifting cradle that will slide under and snugly around each end riser tubing, allowing me to raise each end with my floor jack and replace the Masons with simple casters if I should need to move the lathe out from the wall. Question: Is it possible that I could tweak and damage the lathe bed by lifting one complete end at a time?

The original distance between centers, front to back of the stand mounting holes is 8.5". I will end up with a distance of 18.5". This should provide good stability for the 4" rise. The riser will stick out 2.5" from the stand, front and back and the Mason foot will be 3.25" out. Hopefully, not too much of a tripping hazard.

I'm getting excited now after the false start two weeks ago. Opinions on my questions would be appreciated.
 
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I was surprised how fast the Honda polish worked.
Nothing else like it ... Harley sells a poor copy but Honda makes the real thing.

Should I take this leap and attempt to adjust the jibs and the DRO slide?
The gibs will certainly need adjusting - snug them up until they are too tight & back off just enough for smooth movement. Jibs are only found on a sailboat :nana:

Not sure if your machine uses straight gibs or tapered gibs but here's some info on each:

A gib is an adjustable take-up mechanism to adjust the fit of a machine slide. The gib permits adjustment of the fit of the slide over its service life.


Straight Gib
The standard design for dovetail and hardened way slides. Consists of a flat tool steel strip acted on by multiple set scews. The fit of the slide is set by tightening or loosening the setscrews. The gib is equal in length to the saddle, and may be pinned in place for extra precision.


Tapered Gib
For extra precision and rigidity, the tapered gib may be used on either a dovetail or hardened way slide. It consists of a steel strip with a taper ground into one side, and a corresponding taper ground into the saddle. At each end of the gib there is a cap screw, and by adjusting the screws against each other, the gib can be moved back and forth, adjusting the fit of the slide.



I've decided to go with the Mason feet.
IMO you will like them better...
 
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Nothing else like it ... Harley sells a poor copy but Honda makes the real thing.

When I buy, I buy 6 cans. There was a time when the original - made by Honda themselves, went off the market. "OMG", what am I going to do??? Now I'm gun shy!


The gibs will certainly need adjusting - snug them up until they are too tight & back off just enough for smooth movement. Jibs are only found on a sailboat :nana:

A Big Opps!
 
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Nothing else like it ... Harley sells a poor copy but Honda makes the real thing.

What did I miss out on? :huh:

What is Honda Polish? What do we use it for?

If Barry likes it it must be good stuff!

BVH I'm happy for your new arrival! Hope it works out good for you.
 
Second gen on left, current product on the right. Used it to keep my Goldwing sparkling clean and shiny. Could be used on car finsihes but would be expensive I'd guess. Lots of other products for that. I use it to clean many, many painted surfaces, my tool box, the Lipo storage BBQ, bicycles. It makes a quick job of keeping paint clean and shiny. Oh, and my PM1236, too!

IMG_2737.jpg
 
Not sure if your machine uses straight gibs or tapered gibs but here's some info on each:

A gib is an adjustable take-up mechanism to adjust the fit of a machine slide. The gib permits adjustment of the fit of the slide over its service life.

Straight Gib
The standard design for dovetail and hardened way slides. Consists of a flat tool steel strip acted on by multiple set scews. The fit of the slide is set by tightening or loosening the setscrews. The gib is equal in length to the saddle, and may be pinned in place for extra precision.


Tapered Gib
For extra precision and rigidity, the tapered gib may be used on either a dovetail or hardened way slide. It consists of a steel strip with a taper ground into one side, and a corresponding taper ground into the saddle. At each end of the gib there is a cap screw, and by adjusting the screws against each other, the gib can be moved back and forth, adjusting the fit of the slide.

Tapered "GIB" is used. I see the screws at each and. I looked at the DRO manual and discovered that the clearance of the pick-up is not within sensor-to-scale limits (.8mm-1.5mm) It's much closer and the sensor is not directly under the scale. It's about .020 -.030 off. Given this, I might as well take off the cross slide. My final DRO alignment can't be any worse than theirs. The tapered "GIB" looks fairly easy to adjust.
 
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Congrats Bob! :party:

So where are all the pics? :poke:

I know you posted pics before but you don't have that one anymore. 🙂

Did you get one with the chuck guard this time? And by the sounds of your other posts, did you not have to send everything back with the previous one as in chucks, stand, etc?

Happy you finally got your lathe!


What is Honda Polish? What do we use it for?

If Barry likes it it must be good stuff!

I agree, Honda Cleaner & Polish is some great stuff. But IIRC it's usually found in the Honda Motorycle or ATV/Dirt Bike dealers. I don't remember seeing it all Honda/Acura Auto dealers. I used to be a Honda mechanic but I specialized in high performance rather than general repairs although I also performed repairs & maintenance too. Another great Honda product that I swore by is Honda Bond. Yama Bond is also a comparable equivelent. But many will agrue that they are no different from the gray RTV found at your local auto parts store. I'm also a big fan of Motul products.
 
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OK, OK, I get the hint..... Up till this afternoon, I was just cleaning the machine. I've already made one bonehead move. I assumed that the DRO scale and what I'm calling the "pickup" were separate pieces because the manual called for .8 to 1.5mm clearance, set with a feeler gauge. Project: Take the cross slide off. undo the allen on the end of the screw. Loosen the two small allens that sort of tweak the brass screw nut to make the shaft less susceptible to vibrating loose? Count turns and remove the the GIB screws. OK crank away. Get to the end and it will not come off. Analyze, analyze... Oh Krap! I forgot to unscrew the scale and I've run the pickup all the way against the end of the scale! Not supposed to do that. Remove the scale mounting screws and the cross slide comes off like it should. I'll bet I've trashed the scale! Get everything all cleaned up and go to re-assemble. Darn screw won't start in the brass nut. Look at starting end of nut. Krappy threads! No tap with this pitch. Take 9/16" course US tap and use one section of cutter to re-establish starting thread groove. Success! Re-install the scale and move cross slide back and forth. What is that faint tinkle/glass sound coming from the scale???

Found a place here in CA that sells DRO Kits and the scales separately. IF I've trashed mine, a new one will be about $140. But wait, there's more! In reading their description of scale resolution and the two different resolution scales they sell, I can buy a .0001 scale instead of the .0002 so I will see smaller increments of movement! Ahhh....that must be why I deliberately decided to possibly break my scale. Rationalization, anyone?

I won't have my stand risers until tomorrow eve or Saturday eve so I really can't do much more except to get each end raised on blocks, and remove the pallet and skid in prep for the lift. Since the carriage DRO scale (undamaged so far) sticks so far out, I can't simply wrap the sling around the lathe bed for the lift. I made a 4x6 block that contacts the two lathe bed lifting points, is notched to miss the shafts and sticks out about 4" on both sides. I know the manual says to thread the sling between the bed and leadscrew/shafts but I want to have equal lifting forces on both sides so I'm going outboard on both. I don't want to take the DRO off!

No chuck guard on this one either. I'll try asking for one in case I decide I want to use it.

OK a few quick shots:

IMG_2750.jpg

I know it looks a little precarious in that the block could twist if the sling was not precisely centered. But I used this method to raise the tailstock end only enough from it's' support (1/8") to put the 4x6 blocks underneath the mounting foot. I could not use the block horizontally because the DRO pickup wire was in the way.

IMG_2748.jpg


IMG_2747.jpg


IMG_2746.jpg


IMG_2744.jpg


IMG_2751.jpg
 
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Hi,
Really sorry to hear about your scale, that was not what anyone wants, but at least you owned up to doing it and it might help someone else down the track.

I have had DRO's for about 5 years and have been in and out of a few, I would realign the scale and hook it up to see if it will work as they are very robust, if it doesn't take off the end caps and have a look inside to see where it is broken. It may have only broken the end of the glass and the cross slides doesn't usually use the full length, so you still might get out of it by just removing the broken glass piece.
Changing over to 0.001um scale would be my recommendation, just make sure you readout will take it, but most do these days.

The reader head is the most expensive part so if you want to get it going latter you could just buy the scale without the reader of the same brand.

Before you have another mishap, don't lift with those straps or they will probably break. I have had that type for tie downs and they have let go. Get yourself some proper rated lifting straps, they are only about $10 or less each for a 1 ton ones.

Great to see your lathe turned up with no problems this time around, but I would be onto him about that guard until you get it.

Looking forward to your updates, and seeing your risers.

Dave
 
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You might be in luck,
I just remembered the scale will make that sound if it is miss aligned, as it rubs on the aluminum and sounds like glass. A few years back I thought I did a scale in with the same sound but found out it was this.

I also forgot to mention the small grub screws on the brass nut are for taking up backlash in the cross slide screw. You will never get no backlash, so just tighten them up enough that it doesn't make the screw hard to turn. If it is hard to turn you have gone too far so just back them off a little.
As for the gib, it will wear in over time and will need adjusting and who even knows if it was adjust right from factory. So just oil and adjust it up so there if a slight drag to it, you don't want it to tight or the cross slide will move in small jumps as it will get stuck then move in a little jump as it over comes the resistance while getting pushed by the screw.

Dave

Edit
If your going to use the gap part of the bed to turn larger stuff, it looks like you will have to move the carriage scale down as they have mounted it to high. Once you set up the cross slide one and get used to it, you may want to tackle that before putting it against a wall as it will be hard to get at.
 
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To help you out, here are some pictures of the inside of the scales
This one show the reader head with the bearings and you can see the spring. It's those tabs that sometimes come into contact with the scale housing to make it sound like it's the glass.

scale_head.jpg


You can read a bit more about it's workings from here
http://www.zsinstruments.com/scales_about.aspx

And this one is of the scale housing, some have the glass strait down where others have it on an angle
bg40_glass.gif


Dave
 
You probably didn't harm the scale. If you were lucky the reader head tried to push through the plastic end cap on the scale and you'll need a new end cap. If not so lucky the reader head was damaged & will need to be replaced. Not a huge deal either way & you'll be up & running quickly.

I have found the 0.0002" to be plenty good for this machine.
I set my display for "fine resolution" which means .0002" radial tool movement / .0004" diameter change. Half that amount would sometimes be nice but I wouldn't pay much extra for it.
 
I set my display for "fine resolution" which means .0002" radial tool movement / .0004" diameter change. Half that amount would sometimes be nice but I wouldn't pay much extra for it.
Exactly. I have not yet found a situation where this .0002" was not adequate. My parts are most always fitted to 0.0005" to 0.001", so having the ability to "sneak" up to that by less than 0.0005" is great. In fact 0.00025" is all that I need, so to go from 0.0002" to 0.0001" would not give me any benefit with the machine/tools that I have 😉

I should also note that I have found hard to do extremely fine cuts (in the 0.0002" per pass) unless I am using very sharp Al-specific inserts, since there is more likely to be deflection/push rather than the insert "biting" (even more so with Delrin since it is softer than metal). It is even easier to take those really shallow cuts when using my ultra sharp PCD inserts :devil:

Will
 
Hi,

Before you have another mishap, don't lift with those straps or they will probably break. I have had that type for tie downs and they have let go. Get yourself some proper rated lifting straps, they are only about $10 or less each for a 1 ton ones.Dave

These slings do, in fact, look like some of those that come with the cheap tie down units that the big box stores sell. However, these are manufactured lifting slings. I bought them from a rigging equipment online store. The tag on the sling indicates three different types of lifting configurations and in this lifting configuration, each sling is rated at 3,200 pounds. I had planned to use both of them together for redundancy and/or load sharing. Thanks for the warning on the tie down straps!

Thank you all on the info on the scale and reading head. Makes me feel a little more positive that it might still be OK. Once I get power to the machine, we'll see what happens. Good info on the higher res scales. They also advertise magnetic scales. I would assume that my screen unit would not be compatible but just for general info, are they superior and if so, in what ways?

Davo J, thanks for the pics of the scale parts. I enjoy the technical details. So does the glass have some type of fine coating on it and the reading head works like a hard drive head?

The chuck guard materials have been ordered.
 
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They also advertise magnetic scales. I would assume that my screen unit would not be compatible but just for general info, are they superior and if so, in what ways?
If your display head can use them the mag scales are awesome. Newall came out first with their version & there are now quite a few copies:

bbd23256.jpg


The big advantage is that the mag area is totally sealed. A glass scale is covered on three sides but open on the bottom (the yellow colored area is a lip seal, shown on top for clarity).

7cd528b8.jpg
 
If you decide the scale is OK, set some stops and run it back and forth to verify that it does not have any dead spots. I had one scale that 'tinkled' and found that if I ran it 8 inches and then back the starting point there were spots were it did not register the movement, and did not come back to zero. A new scale and all is well.


Daniel
 
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