New member intro. and surefire 6P build question

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Hello! names mike, been lurking around this forum a bit in the past getting great info on a cheap Fenix flashlight for my ar15 i bought and it got me into the higher lumen led lights.
looking for a much better light for every day use and mostly, a light duty self defense weapons light. (ar-15 mounted or offhand w/pistol)

From the bit of research i have done here and other gun forums, i purchased a surefire 6p body tube only, has O rings i think.

With so many options with this 6p setup i need a little guidance, should i get, and can i still get, a shock recoil isolated head or bezel? (read something about those)

I will get a Z59 surefire clicky (i dont think i want the knob one, and the good aftermarket ones i have seen are pretty pricey comparatively)
and a Malkoff devices m61 LED drop-in (not sure on lumens output level yet, self defense roll indoors close quarters so iam thinking the 170ish lumens one, m61L or something, dont want to lose nightvision shining the light on walls close quarters)

just leaves batteries..... what kind of extension and battery(s) should i get if i wanted to run rechargeable batteries if i get tired of the standard 2 cr123's?

i would rather not have to bore out or get another sized flashlight body tube.

thanks for reading and any info would be much appreciated.

 

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okay so now i just need a tail clicky a drop in module and batteries

i cheaped out a little and got the G&P AEG Tactical Head for G&P/SureFire 6P 9P Flashlight GP313 (AS366)

i think iam still leaning towards the m61 low output in Warm to save battery life, and since its an indoor self defense weapons light i dont need the extreme lumens.

i think i want an extension to run 3 cr123's or some sort of bigger/better rechargeable if anyone has a suggestion.

 

[Grizzman]

I ran an M61L in a 6P on my HD shotty for a few years before changing to an M61 behind a frosted lens. A Z59 clicky will work well on your 6P. Either 17670 or 16650 rechargeable cells will work in the 6P without the need to bore the body. Run time will be significantly less than that provided by an 18650, but it is an easy (and no cost) option.

A Surefire A19 will allow the insertion of a 3rd CR123, giving it the same dimensions as a 9P. With the A19 installed, two rechargeable 17500s can be used. If you'd like to keep the light body fully Surefire, Z44 bezels are found often in the MarketPlace for the same price as the G&P head.

 

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I ran an M61L in a 6P on my HD shotty for a few years before changing to an M61 behind a frosted lens. A Z59 clicky will work well on your 6P. Either 17670 or 16650 rechargeable cells will work in the 6P without the need to bore the body. Run time will be significantly less than that provided by an 18650, but it is an easy (and no cost) option.

A Surefire A19 will allow the insertion of a 3rd CR123, giving it the same dimensions as a 9P. With the A19 installed, two rechargeable 17500s can be used. If you'd like to keep the light body fully Surefire, Z44 bezels are found often in the MarketPlace for the same price as the G&P head.

awesome great info Grizz, i think i will get a z44 bezel eventually when i see one for less than msrp, now that i have put a bit more research in, Malkoff says the drop ins they sell do not need shock isolation that makes things easier! and i think either m61w or m61 will be the module i choose.

I was looking for an A19 extension but all i could come up with was stuff from Hong Kong solarforce and such. which is fine if they are hard to come by, the surefire ones that is.

thanks again for the info. will update on how the build goes.

 

[Grizzman]

I guess I didn't get the intended comment into the post regarding shock isolation. It was originally intended to allow the use of incandescent lamp assemblies. Malkoff's are definitely good to go in weapon mounted lights.

The A19 has been discontinued, so it may take a while to find one. I bought my bored A19s from Oveready. They are usable with both bored and unbored hosts, but they Hard Anodized them, so they won't match the Type II anodizing of the 6P (they used to sell both Type II and HA).

The current M61 modules' tint is somewhat blue, which seems to be harsher on the eyes in 2 AM house clearing drills than the M61N module. My only Malkoff W modules are an M91AW and M60F variants. If I were to buy a new module specifically for indoor weapon mounted use, I'd definitely choose a W version, but my white-ish walls may make that more important than your conditions dictate. The color temperature of the W drop-ins change somewhat from batch to batch, and I think the current offering is 3000K, which is very warm. My M91AW is 3700K and damn nice.

 

[Grizzman]

I just saw the RedLed has a couple Z44 bezels for sale in the MarketPlace for $20 each.

 

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great i will check the marketplace out, haven't had the time yet to really look at whats available. Yes my walls are very light colored as well, and i know a 200 lumen bright white/blue led hurts my natural night vision no problem. I don't want to spend 100 or more dollars on a light build, and not have it powerful enough. i will buy the drop in last due to price, and i will have the opportunity to get the exact module i will need.

 

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Have just about everything coming. new surefire Z44 head, new Z41 tail, mil-spec o-ring kit, ultra clear lens, Malkoff M61. just need an A19. I need to study up on batteries and chargers, and i may consider boring out the surefire 6P body. Also getting an Overready bored A19 and do whatever with that. I suppose i could just use 3 cr123's with spacers if i don't get rechargeable right away.

 

[Grizzman]

Sounds like you're making good progress. Do you plan to upgrade the Z41 with a clicky switch, or leave it as momentary/twisty?

 

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I found the z41 much cheaper than i could find a z59, but yeah i will upgrade the Z41 to that oveready clicky (btw does it still have a twist on feature as well as clicky?) after i use the stock'er for a bit, since i just recently found out the tail switch has a limit on how much power can be run through it? I am completely new to the whole high end flashlight scene so i couldn't tell you the difference between some LED flashlights and Luke's Light Saber. my next step is to get some cr123a's and look into an A19 or some other extender (bored or not) to get more than 1.5 hour(s) run time.

 

[Grizzman]

The Z41 with McClicky switch really doesn't have a twist for on feature. It can be locked out by slightly loosening the tailcap. If the switch were on, and the tailcap were loosened, then the light would go off. Tightening the tailcap at that point makes the light com on, but momentary operation would be lost.

The McClicky switch is able to pass 5 amps of current through it. This is well above the amperage required for all Malkoff drop-ins, as well as high output triples like the TorchLAB.

 

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All right i think i have some batteries and a charger coming that all should work fine, Charger: nitecore i4 v2 intellicharger, two trustfire protected 17670's, two trustfire protected RCR123's. 3.7v(one 17670) and 3.6v from i am assuming is one RCR123. now when you use two rcr123's do you have to balance charge them like a two cell li-po RC hobby battery? would the nitecore intellicharger do this? and will the standard z41 tailcap handle the power from these battery combos?

 

[Grizzman]

The i4 v2 seems to receive good comments here, so it should work out well for you. Trustfire batts, on the other hand, do not generally receive positive comments here. The charger will terminate when the cells are at or a little below 4.2 volts. As both cells are used together in the light, they will naturally drain at the same rate. As long as the RCR123s are used strictly as a pair, they are quite safe. Do you have a Digital Multi-Meter?

Malkoff M61s are actually driven to a very moderate level. When a single Li-Ion cell is used, it will only pull around 800 mA. Yep, that's right.....less than an amp. From two RCR123s, the current draw is only approximately 560 mA. A Z41 can handle currents of up to 3 amps without difficulty.

 

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Yes i have a digi multimeter if that helps? maybe read a battery's voltages? okay cool i will look into better batteries, i guess "AW" seems to be okay? so with the 17670, i should see full power run times of up to 1.5 hours?(m61) and then a loss of lumens until total light failure? and just slightly less with 2 rcr123's? sorry to bugger with so many questions but from the research i have done it kinda goes over my head.

i will see how long the z41 holds up as i do like the idea of all surefire. and would you recommend any batteries rechargeable and standard?

 

[Grizzman]

Although the ideal situation is to measure a battery's voltage under a load, I get fully acceptable results by measuring them resting. Voltage balance is more important than absolutely accurate voltage levels.

All of my rechargeables are AW and have had very good luck with them, as well as countless others here.

The output curve of the M61 when fed a single Li-Ion really isn't "full power" for the duration of the time. I've never performed a run time test with an M61. I'd be surprised if you get 1.5 hours of nearly full output out of a 1500 mAh 17670. It starts out at full power when the drop-in is receiving enough voltage to remain in regulation. Once the voltage drops to below 3.4 volts, the drop-in changes to a direct drive state and the output steadily (and very slowly) drops until the low voltage protection circuit of the battery kicks in, and the light goes out. In my normal operation, it is very rare for me to have a cell drop to below 3.6 volts. I'll go weeks without charging my 18650 driven M61N that I carry every day of the week. I've never really noticed that the output wasn't the max the drop-in will provide when it's at the 3.6 to 3.7 volt range.

While RCR123s are advertised as having a capacity of 750 mAh, the common consensus is that they actually have around 500-550 mAh. This definitely gives less run time than a 17670. The benefit (or drawback, depending on how you look at it) is that the drop-in receives enough voltage the entire time to remain in regulation, therefore providing full output. Once the protection kicks in on one cell (there is no warning at all), the light shuts off.

Frequently charging Li-Ions has no ill affects, while fully discharging them till the protection circuit kicks in is definitely not doing the cell any favors from a longevity perspective.

The Z41 should last longer than you will. I upgraded my Z41s with McClicky's not for durability or voltage capacity, but because needing to tighten the tailcap for constant output is annoying in anything but a truly tactical situation.

Don't worry about all the questions. I'm happy to pass along information.

 

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alright awesome thanks again for your help. basically you could EDC the surefire 6p with the m61 and 2x rcr123's,recharge batteries every other day or so depending on use and basically have no worries. i will be ordering some AW, i saw there are different types of compositions as well with AW lion licos IMR and i saw something about fakes!? what would be a good source to get some AW 17670's and RCR123's?

 

[Grizzman]

If your usage is anything like mine you'll go well over a couple days between charges.

IMR cells are best for applications requiring serious current, like direct driven XM-L2 or MT-G2 LED assemblies (that basically take all the current they can get) and very hard driven incans. They don't incorporate protection circuits, so will discharge to zero volts, which is very bad. Malkoff M61SHOs and M91 series drop-ins, as well as other high voltage and high performance drop-ins, have a low voltage cut-off that allows for the safe use of IMR cells with less chance of a disastrous situation.

Standard protected AW cells would be a good choice for your light.

I buy my AWs from Oveready and Lighthound.

 

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ok i was just on lighthound. so should i buy more RCR123's or 17670's? from what i gather the rcr123's will run the m61 at full power for a bit then just shut off? what will the 17670 do?

and i cannot find an a19 extender to save my life, except the bored out oveready ones in HA which wouldnt match. is there a US supplier that stocks the knock off 6p extenders from solarforce and such?

 

[Grizzman]

I'm topping off a couple AW RCRs and a 17670 now, and will perform run time tests with a couple M61s tomorrow.

Solarforce extenders can be purchased directly from Solarforce at http://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=FA&s=16&id=59 or from eBay. They are really cheap, and should work well enough until you locate an A19 in the MarketPlace or eBay.

 

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ok awesome thanks! i finally found an a19 extender on the marketplace, said i'd take it but there is no paypal info so i have to wait for him to PM me, since i cannot PM yet myself on that forum. looks like i will need to buy one more AW rcr123, i got 2 AW rcr123's and 1 AW 17670. now with the extender can you run 1 17670 and 1 rcr123 at the same time? or is it better to just keep 3 rcr123's to use as a 3 cell setup at all times, and have separate 17670's and 2 rcr123's to run in 6p configuration?