New Member - Questions regarding SureFire L1/L2 LumaMax

[bliss]

Dear CPF,

First of all, I know very little about flashlights, though I have been learning a few things from this forum, and less about the inner workings of flashlight electronics. I've posted on other forums in the past and sometimes people seem to get upset if you don't already have a vast knowledge of the subject matter or you are not able to prove that you have read every word of every post in every topic on the entire site before asking any questions. I just want to apologize in advance if my questions seem dumb or if they have already been answered elsewhere. I'll try to tread as lightly as possible.

Anyway, I had been drooling over SureFire flashlights for years, I finally broke down and bought an L2 LumaMax. So far, I am very impressed. I love the SureFire dual stage lights.

Now that flashlight fever has set in, I'm considering purchasing an L1 LumaMax and I have a few questions about both lights.

I've found that both the newer version L1s (Cree) and older version (non-Cree) are both available. Are the newer (Cree) L1s altogether superior to the older version or are there advantages and disadvantages on both sides? If so, what are those advantages/disadvantages?

The local police supply, where I purchased the L2, also had an L1. I pawed them both and noticed that the bezel of the L1 was some sort of optical lens, whereas the L2 is just flat glass. What is the purpose of the lens? Why does the L1 have the lens, but not the L2? Do the older L1s also have this bezel lens? The L1 I saw, did have a green LED, does the lens have something to do with the colored LED?

Do the heads on the older/newer L1s interchange?

Is the 5w LED in the L2 also a "Cree"?

When I use my L2 on the low setting, the flashlight emits a subtle high-frequency whine, not unlike the sound a CRT monitor or television makes. I'm assuming that this is normal?

Thanks

 

[Lightingguy321]

>The differences between the new and old L1 are really just the output intensity and the beam spread. The old L1 was a bit dimmer and had a narrower beam. The new L1 has a maximum output of 65 lumens and has a newer optic that spread the beam out a bit more.

>The difference between the L1 and L2 is that the L2 uses a reflector instead of a TIR lens which the L1 uses, both (i think) have domed front pyrex windows. The LED in the L2 is not a cree, it is a Lumileds Luxeon V. As for a beam comparison either of the L1s will still have narrower beams over all compared to the L2, since the L2 does not have a very deep reflector and is meant to have a medium width beam for use as a general flood light rather than for a light that can throw it's beam a long distance.

>As for the whine that your L2 makes at low output, how old is the L2? This was a problem with the earlier models of the L2 and I believe from what I have read about the L2 is that the newer L2s do not have a problem with the whining noise at the low output level.

>The L1 cree and the old L1 heads cannot interchange bodies due to the fact that the regulators are different and the width dimension on an old body is slightly different from that of a new body.

>The purpose of the lens on the L1 is to focus and collect as much light as possible from the LED and emit it in a very narrow (narrower than the L2 beam) beam.

>both the new and the old L1 use optics instead of reflectors. The new L1 as I stated earlier has a much nicer beam pattern that allows for some spill light (side spill) in the beam.

>The color of an L1 LED and an optic is non related, all L1s (except the very old first generation models that had reflectors) have a TIR optic lens. Also be aware that the new L1 is only available with a red LED or a white LED, there are no longer any blue or green L1s (if you want one you have to buy the older version before the stock of those 2 colors is depleted).

hope this info helps.

 

[bliss]

Lightingguy321,

Thanks, yes that info does help, however it also raises more questions.

>both the new and the old L1 use optics instead of reflectors.

As for the whine that your L2 makes at low output, how old is the L2?

My L2 definitely has a reflector and not the domed optical lens. I don't know how old it is, I just bought it at the store a few days ago. It was the last one in stock, I wonder if they sold me an old version? They charged me full retail, I suppose that's what I get for trying to support local small business. Sigh. I'll have to stop in and see them.

be aware that the new L1 is only available with a red LED or a white LED, there are no longer any blue or green L1s

The L1 I saw was green and had the newer optical lens, not the reflector. So they must have made some in green. Maybe I should buy it, if it's a rarity?

What is the green for anyway? And why is it popular with pilots? I know red is used for preserving night vision. What is the main use for green?

>The differences between the new and old L1 are really just the output intensity and the beam spread. The old L1 was a bit dimmer and had a narrower beam.

Does the original have any advantage, like a longer battery life, or is the newer version 100% more desirable in every way?

 

[half-watt]

My L2 definitely has a reflector and not the domed optical lens. I don't know how old it is, I just bought it at the store a few days ago.

my L2 has a high frequency "whine" also. many digital flashlights have a high frequency "whine" - some louder than others. it is the high frequency digital switching (*NOT* to be confused with the tail cap ON-OFF switch) that takes place in the electronics comprising power supply of the light. it is normal in many lights. mine has been operating fine (with the "whine"/noise) for a year or so now with no problems at all.

What is the green for anyway? And why is it popular with pilots? I know red is used for preserving night vision. What is the main use for green?

reading maps. a test pilot at work explained (if i recall his simple explanation correctly) to me some years ago that certain colored lines (red???) would not be visible on the map if a red light was used (any knowledgeable person, pilot or otherwise, please jump in here and correct me if i'm recalling this incorrectly). anyways, it's for reading maps regardless of the color of lines that wouldn't be visible if a red light were used.

Does the original have any advantage, like a longer battery life, or is the newer version 100% more desirable in every way?

IMO, the older pre-Cree L1 (which i own) is a totally different light from the new L1 Cree (which i also happen to own).

the main advantage of the older pre-Cree L1 is the LOW output mode. for my uses (your mileage may vary), the very low Mfr. Claimed 1.1lumen (also read it as 1lumen in some sources) output is useful for me in two ways: 1) when i want a dim white light (NOT to preserve dark adaptation) which allows me to see better than a dim red light due to color preservation - necessary at times depending upon what i may be doing, and 2) the very long runtime on a single CR123A cell (Mfr. claimed 90hrs, but might only be half-that before the light becomes too dim to use for some purposes).

my recommendation is save your pennies and purchase both the older pre-Cree L1 and the new L1 Cree.

 

[bliss]

half-watt,

Thanks for the info.

What about the older vs. newer L2? Is there any advantage there? I like the flood effect of my L2 as it is. Would the domed glass lens increase or decrease this effect?

a test pilot at work explained (if i recall his simple explanation correctly) to me some years ago that certain colored lines (red???) would not be visible on the map if a red light was used

I had this happen on a road trip recently. The only light I had handy was the little LED on my Victrinox Swiss Card, which is red. Half the roads on the map disappeared. If you used a green light wouldn't the green lines be invisible?

 

[half-watt]

newer L2?

haven't heard of a newer L2 yet. the L2 uses a 5W Luxeon-type LED. not sure if there are any 5W Cree's yet; have only seen 3W Cree's in the light's i've purchased or read about. perhaps someone else can enlighten us on this point.

we don't want to confuse the L2 with the E2L Outdoorsman (or the L1 with the E1L Outdoorsman). the L1 and L2 Digital Lumamax lights are quite different from the two "Outdoorsman" lights.

I had this happen on a road trip recently. The only light I had handy was the little LED on my Victrinox Swiss Card, which is red. Half the roads on the map disappeared. If you used a green light wouldn't the green lines be invisible?

don't think that they put green lines on aviation maps. hence, if i recall this correctly, it's a non-issue.

 

[Derek Dean]

Howdy bliss, and welcome to CPF, may your batteries remain fully charged, and your path always lit.

Hey, nothing wrong with desiring a nice Surefire. I love the look and feel of the L1. Just to get you going a bit more..... you can get one of those modded by one of our members, Milkyspit (he will even supply the original light).... and not only will he put in a super-duper new generation LED that is VERY bright (if you want it to be), but I believe he can adjust the low to suit your taste as well..... AND...... you get to pick what kind of beam you want.... all flood, all spot, or a nice all purpose beam with a nice solid spot, but a fair amount of spill too. See here for an idea of prices and options:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2068490&postcount=183

But, before spending to much.... be sure and check out one of the most eagerly awaited lights:

http://www.novatac.com/

A very neat little pocket light that has 4 ADJUSTABLE levels, and runs on both primary AND rechargeable batteries. The first reviews seem to point to it being very well built. We will know more soon, as the first production units began shipping yesterday (yea!).

Anyway, have fun, hold on to your wallet, and enjoy the forum... I think you will find the most folks here are pretty nice and don't mind answering questions.

 

[Valpo Hawkeye]

>The L1 cree and the old L1 heads cannot interchange bodies due to the fact that the regulators are different and the width dimension on an old body is slightly different from that of a new body.

>The color of an L1 LED and an optic is non related, all L1s (except the very old first generation models that had reflectors) have a TIR optic lens. Also be aware that the new L1 is only available with a red LED or a white LED, there are no longer any blue or green L1s (if you want one you have to buy the older version before the stock of those 2 colors is depleted).

These two points are actually incorrect. The heads are interchangable on all L1's. I swapped the Cree head and switched it with a first-gen body without any problems. Since the regulation circuitry is in the body, the head only contains the emitter and heat sink, so it can be driven at any acceptable current. When the first-gen head was on the Cree's body, it was simply brighter in first stage.

As to the second point, all L1's have used optics. First-gen was a fraen optic, second-gen was the TIR that gave a very tight, spill-less beam. And of course, the Cree's optic is a mix of the two.

 

[cernobila]

Welcome "bliss", as someone who had (I no longer do) both versions of the L2 Lumamax I will make a comment. The "four flat sides" original version did make a slight noise on the low setting, the newer "three rounded sides" version was much quieter, and I could only hear it when I placed it close to my head......

Before you rush off to buy more lights, do your homework on here and think about what you actually need the light for. Consider cost, output, runtime, can the light run on rechargeables and what kind.....etc.

For cost/output/runtime there are plenty of choices out there and not only Surefire, happy hunting.

 

[EV_007]

I love my New L1 CREE. Very compact and the two stage feature is awesome. I still use my L2 quite often as well. The floody beam is like no other. Of course the two stage tail cap switch is very useful.

 

[bliss]

The "four flat sides" original version did make a slight noise on the low setting, the newer "three rounded sides" version was much quieter, and I could only hear it when I placed it close to my head......

My L2 has three rounded sides, so I guess it's not too old. The whine, as I mentioned before, is quite subtle. If the room is quiet I can hear it without putting it near my ear. If there is significant ambient noise, I have to put it near my ear in order to hear the noise. My ears are sensitive to high-frequency sounds, so I may notice it more than others.

It does have a reflector and a flat glass bezel.

Before you rush off to buy more lights, do your homework on here and think about what you actually need the light for. Consider cost, output, runtime, can the light run on rechargeables and what kind.....etc.

Basically, I need two main flashlights. One for close up/long battery life and one for distance. After doing some homework I decided on the L2 for close up work, which I've been very happy with. I've also decided on the 10x for distance work, but haven't yet figured out how to justify spending $500 on a flashlight. I'll get there eventually though.

I was considering the L1 as a gift for the lady.

Thanks for all the info guys

 

[Size15's]

What sort of distances are you expecting to illuminate things at with the 10X?
I have two 10X's and the beam is not designed, nor intended for distance - it's more like a wall of light than a punch. I would certainly suggest you try to try one out before you buy.

Regarding your ability to hear high-frequencies - don't worry you will get old and this will fade!

Al 🙂

 

[bliss]

What sort of distances are you expecting to illuminate things at with the 10X?
I have two 10X's and the beam is not designed, nor intended for distance - it's more like a wall of light than a punch.

I guess I should have said distance/self-defense. I like idea of being able to blind a hostile person and perhaps have time to get away without having to engage in any sort of conflict. I also like the dual stage, so cool, it just makes the light that much more versatile.

I guess any self defense use would most likely only be within a few meters.

I don't have any specific need for a long range beam, though I'm sure it would come in handy from time to time.

I would certainly suggest you try to try one out before you buy.

I would love to try one, unfortunately I don't know anyone who has one or any retailer near me that has one in stock. This is basically what is stopping me from buying one.

 

[Lightingguy321]

These two points are actually incorrect. The heads are interchangable on all L1's. I swapped the Cree head and switched it with a first-gen body without any problems. Since the regulation circuitry is in the body, the head only contains the emitter and heat sink, so it can be driven at any acceptable current. When the first-gen head was on the Cree's body, it was simply brighter in first stage.

As to the second point, all L1's have used optics. First-gen was a fraen optic, second-gen was the TIR that gave a very tight, spill-less beam. And of course, the Cree's optic is a mix of the two.

Actually, the original L1 was actually a reflector not an optic, yes there was a fraen and than a custom optic, but the original L1 used a reflector.

 

[Valpo Hawkeye]

Actually, the original L1 was actually a reflector not an optic, yes there was a fraen and than a custom optic, but the original L1 used a reflector.

Hhm. I'm gonna need a pic because I've had several first-gen L1's and they were all fraen. I have yet to encounter anything showing an L1 with a reflector.

 

[Size15's]

SureFire have never release an L1 with a reflector. It has always had an optic:

Shelby Chan Photography

 

[Size15's]

I guess I should have said distance/self-defense. I like idea of being able to blind a hostile person and perhaps have time to get away without having to engage in any sort of conflict. I also like the dual stage, so cool, it just makes the light that much more versatile.

I guess any self defense use would most likely only be within a few meters.

I don't have any specific need for a long range beam, though I'm sure it would come in handy from time to time.

I would love to try one, unfortunately I don't know anyone who has one or any retailer near me that has one in stock. This is basically what is stopping me from buying one.

I am extremely cautious regarding using a flashlight as a self-defence tool. Certainly appropriate training and realistic practice is critical. A flashlight is no substitute for the ability to use it.

I am certain that in the right hand the 10X makes a formidable tool to assist with overwhelming the opposition and gaining the advantage in the right circumstances.

At close range there is nowhere to hide from the 10X's wall of light. Transitioning from the duty level to the high output is simple and easy, and can come as a real surprise/shock.

Al

 

[chamenos]

Al is correct, no version of the L1 has ever had a reflector. The optic used in the L1 and KL1 prior to the TIR optic was the NX-05, not the Fraen.

As far as I know, the pyrex lens of the L2 has always been flat, and it is only the L1 and KL1 that had domed pyrex lenses, which were introduced together with the TIR optic.

 

[Size15's]

The second version of the L2-PP (Porcupine) (the one with the stainless steel Strike Bezel) had a domed window...

Al

 

[chamenos]

Thanks Al, what about the regular non-porcupine L2?