thermal guy
Flashaholic
The bones has a much wider beam but still has more throw then standard M61. It's a great light
New to Malkoff - M61 MD2 + M61HOT MD2
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polizeifritz
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That was one of the threads I read, I did a search through the forum and read through all the Elzetta tagged threads, even the "Elzetta - The Industry's Best Kept Secret" thread. Seems like there was a lot more chatter on this brand a few years ago and it has dropped off a lot recently, the Bones seems to have gotten little attention.
That's good to hear, my understanding is that the Bones is more or less a Bravo that just takes 18650's as well, is milled from 1 piece and does not have the High/Low option therefore comparing the beam from the Bravo would be applicable when comparing the Bones as well?
I see that the Bones is rated at around 10,000 candela, whereas the MD2 is around 5000 and the MD2HOT is around 20,000 if I understand correctly. The 10,000 Candela of the Bones is because of the heavy amount of flood I would presume? Still with a bright hotspot with decent throw?
NutSAK
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yes, I'm afraid you've come to the wrong place if you're looking for guidance from reasonable people who will tell you when you've had enough.
StagMoose
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Congrats on the buys! The M61N is fantastic and in the 22.3 head it really...shines...
No Elzetta experience, but probably one day.
I am a big fan of the HOT though.
No Elzetta experience, but probably one day.
I am a big fan of the HOT though.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
" I see that the Bones is rated at around 10,000 candela, whereas the MD2 is around 5000 and the MD2HOT is around 20,000 if I understand correctly. The 10,000 Candela of the Bones is because of the heavy amount of flood I would presume? Still with a bright hotspot with decent throw?"
Well remember that the bones is putting out 650 lumens. The M61 450 so the bones is brighter and that extra 200 lumens helps it throw. I do not have a M61 HOT but there really is no comparison between the M61 and my bravo. The bravo is much brighter much wider beam and throws further. Put that AVS head on a Charlie and you get 950 lumens. and that thing is amazing!
Well remember that the bones is putting out 650 lumens. The M61 450 so the bones is brighter and that extra 200 lumens helps it throw. I do not have a M61 HOT but there really is no comparison between the M61 and my bravo. The bravo is much brighter much wider beam and throws further. Put that AVS head on a Charlie and you get 950 lumens. and that thing is amazing!
polizeifritz
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Thanks for all the responses folks. I am definitely looking forward to the Malkoff M61N, it has made it in to Canada and is sitting in customs waiting for review/tax assessment.
The Bones seems straight forward, but IMO look wise is meh and I am a big fan of the high/low ring. IMO the Bravo is such an amazing looking light.
That begs the question which one do I buy? The Bravo with Hi/Lo switch or the Bones. If I were to get the Bravo, I would take it to a machine shop and get it bored to take 18650s, but I understand the tailcap might become flaky then as it relates to the low function? Perhaps a suitable workaround would be to have it machined from the head side of the tube and have the shop leave a small lip on the tail end and load cells from the head side? Does the Bravo tube have a lip from the factory on the head side to keep batteries from moving around or is that only the Overready bored one? Lastly, does the prometheus ti clip affect the function of the hi/lo tail cap?
The smart solution to this "problem" would probably be just buy both the Bones and the Bravo but that would definitely be excessive, as I have spent wayyyy to much on lights the past few months as it stands.
The Bones seems straight forward, but IMO look wise is meh and I am a big fan of the high/low ring. IMO the Bravo is such an amazing looking light.
That begs the question which one do I buy? The Bravo with Hi/Lo switch or the Bones. If I were to get the Bravo, I would take it to a machine shop and get it bored to take 18650s, but I understand the tailcap might become flaky then as it relates to the low function? Perhaps a suitable workaround would be to have it machined from the head side of the tube and have the shop leave a small lip on the tail end and load cells from the head side? Does the Bravo tube have a lip from the factory on the head side to keep batteries from moving around or is that only the Overready bored one? Lastly, does the prometheus ti clip affect the function of the hi/lo tail cap?
The smart solution to this "problem" would probably be just buy both the Bones and the Bravo but that would definitely be excessive, as I have spent wayyyy to much on lights the past few months as it stands.
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StagMoose
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My bravo does not seem to have a lip on the head side.
I'm not an expert so take this with a grain of salt. The hi/lo switch in the bravo tailcap works much like the Malkoff hi/low switch with the little spring nipple that when backed off makes contact with the tail to run current through the resistor.
When boring the tubes out, I am guessing that the tail end loses enough material to not line up properly with the little spring nipple, and/ or the tail end isn't smooth and flush enough to make reliable contact.
If you were to bore it from the head side down and leave the end of the threads on the tail cap side alone with a shelf that the 18650s could sit on but not pass through it may work more reliably.
On the bones since the head is not removable the batteries must be inserted through the tail causing the situation unexplained above. So it may be hit or miss with the hi/low tail depending on how well it was machined and tolerances. Since it is a "budget" version there is likely some variability there.
The M61N as mentioned above is similar to the Elzettas, but the elzettas put out more light. It is floddy and probably about what an M61N would look like if it was pushing 650ish lumens.
I have both and they are different but somewhat redundant with the elzetta just being brighter. The M61 has a smaller head and can easily use a wider array of cells.
If you want throw, neither are throwers, but the Elzetta options throw a little farther due to having higher lumen output and the beam is a bit wider.
I also have the M61HOT and think you will be well covered between the 61N and the Hot. Not to diminish the elzettas because they are fantastic as well.
I would stick with unprotected cells and not worry too much. Output will be noticeably diminished long before you ruin cells. Backup primaries are good, but the HOT can burn through them relatively quickly.
It's rainy here but if it clears up tonight I can take some comparison pics if it would be helpful.
I'm not an expert so take this with a grain of salt. The hi/lo switch in the bravo tailcap works much like the Malkoff hi/low switch with the little spring nipple that when backed off makes contact with the tail to run current through the resistor.
When boring the tubes out, I am guessing that the tail end loses enough material to not line up properly with the little spring nipple, and/ or the tail end isn't smooth and flush enough to make reliable contact.
If you were to bore it from the head side down and leave the end of the threads on the tail cap side alone with a shelf that the 18650s could sit on but not pass through it may work more reliably.
On the bones since the head is not removable the batteries must be inserted through the tail causing the situation unexplained above. So it may be hit or miss with the hi/low tail depending on how well it was machined and tolerances. Since it is a "budget" version there is likely some variability there.
The M61N as mentioned above is similar to the Elzettas, but the elzettas put out more light. It is floddy and probably about what an M61N would look like if it was pushing 650ish lumens.
I have both and they are different but somewhat redundant with the elzetta just being brighter. The M61 has a smaller head and can easily use a wider array of cells.
If you want throw, neither are throwers, but the Elzetta options throw a little farther due to having higher lumen output and the beam is a bit wider.
I also have the M61HOT and think you will be well covered between the 61N and the Hot. Not to diminish the elzettas because they are fantastic as well.
I would stick with unprotected cells and not worry too much. Output will be noticeably diminished long before you ruin cells. Backup primaries are good, but the HOT can burn through them relatively quickly.
It's rainy here but if it clears up tonight I can take some comparison pics if it would be helpful.
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StagMoose
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Fritz,
Not sure if you are still with us but I said I would do something so I did take some Beamshots for you.
So here is the M61N, Bravo (running two different battery options) and the 61HOT. As well as some other stuff.
Happy to answer any questions.
https://imgur.com/a/TiNZXRx
Not sure if you are still with us but I said I would do something so I did take some Beamshots for you.
So here is the M61N, Bravo (running two different battery options) and the 61HOT. As well as some other stuff.
Happy to answer any questions.
https://imgur.com/a/TiNZXRx
thermal guy
Flashaholic
Actually the new 91's will go down to 3 volts No less so if your running a new 91 and unprotected cells you should be good to go as it will shut down when your batteries are still at 3 volts. Pretty safe.
NutSAK
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's true if you're running 1 cell.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
Yes you are correct. With multiple cells one could drop lower.
NutSAK
Flashlight Enthusiast
With multiple unprotected cells, they all will drop lower. If the head runs down to 3V, you can run two cells down to 1.5V, theoretically.
I only mention this because the terms "cells" and "batteries" are being used in the discussion, and the layman might assume that it's safe to run multiple unprotected cells to the module's cut-off point of 3V.
I only mention this because the terms "cells" and "batteries" are being used in the discussion, and the layman might assume that it's safe to run multiple unprotected cells to the module's cut-off point of 3V.
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polizeifritz
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Wow, thanks for taking the time to take all of those photos, it is very much appreciated. Truly above and beyond!
I am quite surprised at just how similar the M61HOT and the Elzettas are for beam pattern and brightness. I do like the slightly more neutral tint I am seeing on the photos of the Elzetta. I have noticed I am having a real hard time seeing things and fine detail when using cool tinted lights even if they have good spill as my focus is constantly drawn to the hot spot.
I ended up ordering the Bones, it is in the mail on it's way to me. I suspect a Bravo won't be too far behind.
On another note, my MDC AA N arrvied and for 90 lumens it gets the job done well as an EDC light, very good balance of throw and spill and plenty bright. A bit large but I am a fan of the heft of it and it feels rather substantial in hand. I am usually not a fan of l-m-h mode as opposed to h-m-l, but for an EDC light it works and makes sense.
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StagMoose
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Fritz,
Glad to have you back. No trouble at all; I do that for fun, if it is helpful to others then that is even better.
Let me address some items you mentioned for clarity.
Beam profile on the elzetta is Much wider than the HOT, which is a bit narrower. He's way to imagine it: When I stand with the light held up around my head and pointing straight out, the elzetta beam is about right at my feet or close enough to poke a foot into. The M61N (which is in a 22.3mm head) beam starts about 7-8 feet away from my feet and the HOT beam a little further.
With 2 Li-ion batteries the elzetta has almost as much throw as the HOT with 1. This is causing the elzetta to put out more lumens and it won't last as long since they are 16340s. So it is really more like testing a Charlie for throw. With CR123s it throws a little better than the M61N, but again is pumping out about 200 lumens more.
Color between them is different. The M61N is reported to be 4000k. My Bravo is probably 4500K; it is indistinguishable from the 4500k Zebralights I have. Elzetta seems to have (to my eye) a bit higher CRI than the M61N, however tiny is even somewhat hard to tell unless you are using them back to back on a tree a few times. Which is what I did. Before I took those pictures I would have guessed they were about the same color.
With the Elzetta you get a wider beam profile and some more lumens. The head is also much larger than the Malkoff heads. For a duty light the elzetta would be great for looking around. The HOt certainly throws better. I'd like the MD4 body the best if I needed to use it to bop someone.
I don't have a Bones so can't directly compare any of them, but I wish you luck and hope you enjoy them.
Yes, the AA EDC is pretty sweet. Throws more light than you expect and is quite robust. If you use it in dark situations you may grow to love the low setting.
Hope any of this is helpful and be safe out there!
Glad to have you back. No trouble at all; I do that for fun, if it is helpful to others then that is even better.
Let me address some items you mentioned for clarity.
Beam profile on the elzetta is Much wider than the HOT, which is a bit narrower. He's way to imagine it: When I stand with the light held up around my head and pointing straight out, the elzetta beam is about right at my feet or close enough to poke a foot into. The M61N (which is in a 22.3mm head) beam starts about 7-8 feet away from my feet and the HOT beam a little further.
With 2 Li-ion batteries the elzetta has almost as much throw as the HOT with 1. This is causing the elzetta to put out more lumens and it won't last as long since they are 16340s. So it is really more like testing a Charlie for throw. With CR123s it throws a little better than the M61N, but again is pumping out about 200 lumens more.
Color between them is different. The M61N is reported to be 4000k. My Bravo is probably 4500K; it is indistinguishable from the 4500k Zebralights I have. Elzetta seems to have (to my eye) a bit higher CRI than the M61N, however tiny is even somewhat hard to tell unless you are using them back to back on a tree a few times. Which is what I did. Before I took those pictures I would have guessed they were about the same color.
With the Elzetta you get a wider beam profile and some more lumens. The head is also much larger than the Malkoff heads. For a duty light the elzetta would be great for looking around. The HOt certainly throws better. I'd like the MD4 body the best if I needed to use it to bop someone.
I don't have a Bones so can't directly compare any of them, but I wish you luck and hope you enjoy them.
Yes, the AA EDC is pretty sweet. Throws more light than you expect and is quite robust. If you use it in dark situations you may grow to love the low setting.
Hope any of this is helpful and be safe out there!
Good call(s) PF. I sometimes keep the Bones on one hip for max power and the Bravo hi/lo on the other for low light needs. Or a backup hi output number. Elzetta lanyard rings (with after market wrist strap) are a nice addition if you are concerned about needing both hands free but don't have time to holster the light.
And the MDC aa is a mighty fine edc number. I prefer that one to the Elzetta Alpha because it is smaller with an unobtrusive clip mounted to its side.
Stagmoose, if you have the high output Bravo you pretty much have a Bones output. Barely any difference. Both have what I called a tri-beam first time I saw it. A definite narrow hot spot, a bright circle around it and an outter circle of spill. You can see all three when aimed at a wall but in the real world it's pretty seamless looking.
I do like how Malkoff lights place the beam in front of you. The gap does not allow the person at the other end to see your torsoe like Elzettas do. That is my only qualm with Elzetta lights. Hold it beside your head, look down and you can see your shoes. Malkoff, PK Design Lab, Streamlight and SureFire beams provide a beam that puts a gap between you and the beam. Hold an Elzetta in front of you and the issue is solved. But I prefer the gap when milliseconds matter.
And the MDC aa is a mighty fine edc number. I prefer that one to the Elzetta Alpha because it is smaller with an unobtrusive clip mounted to its side.
Stagmoose, if you have the high output Bravo you pretty much have a Bones output. Barely any difference. Both have what I called a tri-beam first time I saw it. A definite narrow hot spot, a bright circle around it and an outter circle of spill. You can see all three when aimed at a wall but in the real world it's pretty seamless looking.
I do like how Malkoff lights place the beam in front of you. The gap does not allow the person at the other end to see your torsoe like Elzettas do. That is my only qualm with Elzetta lights. Hold it beside your head, look down and you can see your shoes. Malkoff, PK Design Lab, Streamlight and SureFire beams provide a beam that puts a gap between you and the beam. Hold an Elzetta in front of you and the issue is solved. But I prefer the gap when milliseconds matter.
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