Newbie wants to buy HID.. needs advice

[LASsociety]

Hi guys,

New to the forum here and am interested in getting a HID flashlight. I found out about these shopping eBay for a new flashlight. I was going to buy a surefire ( I do have a 6P LED for the bedside ) when i noticed the HIDs out there.

I work as a pilot and routinely preflight and postflight aircraft in the dark at outstations. My job is to find damage, leaks, bird-strikes etc at night before the flight is delayed discovering it in the morning when the sun comes out. Or on the other hand pre-flighting in the morning looking for the same or indications of frost or ice. At this point in my career having a good light is job protection. I have been using a 2D Mag light that is positively crap. (I'm taking the 6P to work this week)

So far the most I have spent on a light is the 6p surefire, but now my heart is set on a good flashlight. Here are my criteria.

1) Must be bright, bright enough that I can point it at fan blades about 50 feet away (while standing at best angle to look that them... in front of the wing) and see dings on individual blades. Bright enough that I can illuminate the tail of the aircraft that is 30 feet off the ground.

2) The light will be in my flight bag, and since the bag was expensive and the bag holder in the aircraft is a certain size, the bag is a certain size. I have it stuffed to the gills, and the only room i can spare is where the 2D cell Mag was + a little. I can fit maximum 12 inch length, 2 inch wide barrell and 3 inch wide reflector. Anything bigger won't fit in the bag and isn't much point in me buying.

3) No annoying focus rings. The 6P is good (and I haven't taken it to work yet) but the Mag has so many places that I can't see without moving it around alot.

4) It will probably be on for about 3-5 minutes at a time, 3 times a week before I get home to recharge it. I really don't have aspirations of having it on for more than that... this is really its intended use. So the short run-time isn't really a factor.

5) I would intend this to be an investment where extra batteries or bulbs are available... not sure with some of the Chinese stuff I saw on ebay, etc.

6) God forbid but the emergency flashlights on the aircraft are basically rechargable 2D cell Mag lights. In case of an emergency seems like a good bright light would be an asset worth carrying around.

7) Ok so really bright is cool to I suppose... but if you think a smaller light will do the job I am open to advice.

8) Max buget $500... enthusiastic buget $300

Since I have been everywhere in Denver that I figured would carry HID flashlights and there is nothing around, I have only the pictures I can see by googling things to compare. Its hard for me to get an idea of how bright things are. I have spent the whole weekend playing on the computer trying to decide what to buy, and I have in narrowed down a bit. I'm open to anything though so let me know if there is something I'm missing.

Several lights from 179 that seem to go by Oracle, Tactical and XenoFire that claim to be 24watt 1800 lumen. Seem to be a good size for the bag and some say they like them but some have had battery problems? Seem to all look the same and just have different names engraved on them. Good for the buget. What do you think?

The AE 20W short light seems to be a good size but claims less light that the light described above. also its more expensive.

Then the Microfire Warrior III or II seems to be a good size and from what I see puts out alot of light. I kind prefer this to the AE one.

These are the 3 I was considering. Basically I want this in my bag for years to come if i'm going to spend this kind of money.
Tried to play on the for sale section here but couldn't... guess I need to figure it out still... Any advice on buying a used light? I saw a MF warrior III in the marketplace that looked like i could afford it.

Thanks in advance

LASsociety

 

[BlueBeam22]

:welcome:

My advice to you would be to look into LED lights first. They are much smaller, more reliable, have longer runtimes, and can be turned on and off rapidly without being damaged. You would be blown away by how bright and powerful the current best long range LED flashlights on the market are, which will generally put out anywhere from 200-500 lumens.

Look into getting something like the Tiablo A10, JetBeam Raptor RRT-1, Dereelight DBS R2, Dorcy 220 lumen, etc. All of those lights I just listed will be many times brighter and more powerful than a 2D Maglite or 6P, and have been proven to be great lights.

 

[BVH]

Despite some early problems with DC ballasts (heavy flickering) and some early battery issues, a few of late maybe also, I would go for the Oracle/Tactical 24 Watt HID. The ballasts are now AC and they seem to have rectified the battery issues for the most part. The light is well within your size limits. Sitting here measuring mine, I get:

Largest barrel diameter: 2"
Largest bezel diameter: 2 7/8 - 3"
Length: 9 3/16"

Most HID's take from 10 - 25 seconds to warm up. The Oracle/Tactical 24 Watt is fully useable (read 1000 Lumens or more - 25 times the brightness of your Mag 2D) after about 4-5 seconds and is fully bright in probably 20. One of the benefits of HID is a very tight hotspot which will allow you to see the individual turbine blades well beyond the 30 feet you indicate. Your 3-5 minute run periods are perfect for this HID. Also, the 4300K color of the light produced by the Oracle lends itself to great color rendition. Much better at showing true colors than your sub-3500K Mag or 5000K to 6000K bluish colors of other HIDs (Microfire Warrior).

One thing I would do is to buy from AAC. Jason, I believe is the owner and whom we deal with. They are a forum member and I would specifically call them and ask them to run a full test on the battery before they ship your light. Yes, there are always risks in buying the lower cost HIDs but I think the performance of the light in meeting your requirements will be well worth your time spent acquiring it. AAC has a non-published special for CPF members and I believe it includes 2 batteries. I had the early DC version and returned it. My AC replacement light has worked well with no issues.

LEDs have come a long way and are definitely bright, but they wont have the tight hotspot that HID's do. You may want to compliment the HID with a small, pocketable LED. The HID's are really too bright for closeup work. I have a Private ticket and have done numerous dark hours preflights. The Oracle would be too much light for closeup poking around Piper Warriors/Archers. It sounds like you fly at least commuter-size aircraft which would be a good match for the HID.

Oh...........and Welcome to CPF!

 

[BVH]

I was just thinking that if you have a view of your leading edges from the cockpit window, the beam from this light would be very useful in looking for ice.

 

[alpg88]

here is what to do.
go to e bay, type in hid flashlight, you'll get many results, look for what fits your criteria, than go back here and search for reviews on it, that is it.
300 bucks will get you decent hid, 500 will get you good hid

 

[Patriot]

Hello LAS and welcome to CPF.

Just so you know right up front I'm a big HID fan and spend most of my CPF time in this area. I just wanted to point that out so that you knew I wasn't bias against them when I didn't recommend them in this particular case.

Two things give me pause. The first is the 50 foot max and the second is 3-5 minutes of run time. Even with a 150 foot max the LED's today are fantastically capable of great throw and tight beams but they do this with instant on capability and unbeatable efficiency. You asked if we thought a smaller light would be able to accomplish your tasks and to that I say most definitely. I just can't think of anything that the HID will actually do better for you in this application.

There are hot rod LED "drop-in" assemblies for your Surefire such as these from Malkoff Devices or if you want a bit tighter beam you could go to an entirely different platform like the Jetbeam M1X. Still probably more lumens than you'll want or need but in a much smaller package than any HID. There are nearly unlimited choices on the LED side of the spectrum and your particular useage isn't very demanding.

If I was doing your job LED would be what I'd be using. Plus I'd be carrying a small HID just for fun, even if it didn't get used, because I'm a nut.

 

[BlueBeam22]

You might want to consider the Fenix TK40. That has a low of 13 lumens, Medium of 93 lumens and puts out 630 lumens on high, so it is very versatile and would eliminate the need for having both a larger HID light and a small LED flashlight. It will have a wide beam with incredible throw, and is very compact (not as long as a 2D Mag). It is one of the most highly regarded high output LED lights available. If you do a CPF search you will find quite a bit of information on it.

Edited to add: I think BVH and Patriot both make very good points. Color rendition such as what the 24W Oracle gives will be helpful in identifying what you are looking for, and no LED will give you good rendition like that. LED lights on the other hand can be more convenient due to their size and instant-on ability. I'm not saying that you should rule out either one (LED or HID), I just want to say that the lights that have been recommended for you so far (Oracle 24W, Jetbeam MX1, Fenix TK40, Tiablo A10, etc.) are all excellent lights and any one of them would be likely to give you infinitely better performance for the task than what you currently have. I think now you might be best at deciding which one will fit your needs best.

 

[BVH]

Forgot about the new Tactical 26 Watt. A very nice package.

 

[Patriot]

:welcome:

My advice to you would be to look into LED lights first. They are much smaller, more reliable, have longer runtimes, and can be turned on and off rapidly without being damaged. You would be blown away by how bright and powerful the current best long range LED flashlights on the market are, which will generally put out anywhere from 200-500 lumens.

Look into getting something like the Tiablo A10, JetBeam Raptor RRT-1, Dereelight DBS R2, Dorcy 220 lumen, etc. All of those lights I just listed will be many times brighter and more powerful than a 2D Maglite or 6P, and have been proven to be great lights.

I didn't even notice Bluebeam's recommendations the first time through but the A10 and Raptor RRT-1 are both good choices. They're currently the top "throw" lights that utilize reflectors. If you want something with more lumens and slightly less throw, the Jetbeam M1X, Olight M30, Tiable ACE G, and Lumapower MVP are top picks. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=230019

As I mentioned before, you could easily just convert your 6P with the previously mentioned Malkoff choices or some of Nailbenders creations..
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=239719

Anything called a P60 "drop in" will work. If you read the thread you'll get an idea for which will best suit your needs.

 

[AndrewP]

At 30 to 50 feet the HID would cause some real issues in bounce back. At that range the LEDS are perfect. If your checking an AC for damage I would Imagine a bigger hotspot would be ideal so that you can see more area at any one time. You have an important job so dont want to destroy your night vision and vision in general lol

At 30 feet even the highest settings of the LEDS could bounce back at you a bit ion the bright side. For the fans the brightest settings would be great.

The only issue with LED is that some have a flickering effect, especially on lower settings. You will get distortion when looking at moving/fast moving objects like fans rotating. My M30 has this on Low setting and a bit on Mid setting, high is fine. THe boys here may be able to steer you towards one that does not do this.

 

[Patriot]

The only issue with LED is that some have a flickering effect, especially on lower settings. You will get distortion when looking at moving/fast moving objects like fans rotating. My M30 has this on Low setting and a bit on Mid setting, high is fine. THe boys here may be able to steer you towards one that does not do this.

That's just PWM or pulse-width modulation. Most LED types don't use PWM but some do for any setting other than high. Not a problem with most of the lights listed so far. A current controlled circuit is better but PWM rates higher than 200Hz usually don't get many complaints. I think the M30 is around 100Hz and something to consider if you're PWM sensitive. I think the M30 even uses PWM on high iirc.

 

[Mjolnir]

You also might want to consider some sort of high output incan, which will have better color rendering than an LED or an HID. Better color rendering might make it easier to identify any foreign material on the aircraft than with an LED. Since you don't need very long runtime, the lower efficiency of an incan wouldn't really be a disadvantage.

 

[LASsociety]

Thanks for all the replies guys,

When i started my research on the surefire website, I specifically remember them saying that about 200 lumens what the "practical limit" Of LED lights, so i assumed that some of the brighter LED lights were either fluff that really didn't perform that bright or were a combination of incandescent and LED.

If indeed LED is as bright as 900 Lumens, this sounds pretty impressive. I will be researching the lights that have been mentioned.

Maybe I will end up getting 2 new lights to play with. I have to admit I'm also interested in the HID as something that is cool that I have't had before, a kind of neat-o factor. Thanks for the responses.

LASsociety

 

[Patriot]

Thanks for all the replies guys,

Maybe I will end up getting 2 new lights to play with. I have to admit I'm also interested in the HID as something that is cool that I have't had before, a kind of neat-o factor. Thanks for the responses.

You're welcome LAS,

Within the budget you presented to us you'll be able to purchase a nice LED light and an HID if you so choose. The Tactical 24W HID for example is under $200 for CPF members. If you don't mind something larger the Stanley 35W HID available at Walmart is the deal of the century at under $75. Lots of info available on both of these lights through the "CPF Only" Google Search function, just to the left of your logged in user name at the middle right.

P.S. Is that the MD80 series you fly?