NiMh Battery Shoot Out

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paulr

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Tom, yes, I have the same industrial Sanyo cells with the green sleeves.

On another note, I mentioned the Energizer 15 min charger came with four 2200 mAH (yes they are 2200) cells and I charged up the cells on it. I then put the cells on the BC900 discharge/refresh function which is not yet complete (I think it's done 2 cycles since last night). It's at 1000 mA charge and 500 mA discharge and all 4 cells are already measuring slightly over 2200 mAH. That is very impressive. It makes me wonder whether the 2200 and 2500 mah cells are really the same cells with different labels for market differentiation. Every other cell I've tested has measured at somewhat lower than its nominal capacity. (OTOH, I expect the BC900 does its discharge and measurement immediately after fast-charge termination, which means there's still a little bit of capacity left that could be filled by extra time spent trickle charging).

I guess I can send you the 15 min charger if you want to play with it for a while. But they're just $22.99 online at target.com and I think they're an excellent value, especially with such good cells.
 

John N

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[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
Hello Wilkey,

Interesting results...


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow!

I guess test results should probably report tempature in order to be properly considered.

I wonder if this is used by mfgs. when they claim their ratings.

-john
 

Bullzeyebill

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As a side note, regarding CBP1650's, got an email from CBP. The 1650's are back in stock.

Bill
 

SilverFox

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Hello John,

All of my testing, unless indicated otherwise, is done at room temperature (very close to 68 F). I figure that most of us use our cells after they have had some time to cool down, so this should give results close to what we will see when used in our lights.

Please note that this method of testing is different than the La Crosse charger uses. It begins the discharge test immediately after charging the cell up. At higher charge rates, the cell is "hot off the charger" which gives slightly higher readings. This is hard wired into the charger.

It still gives a good indication of the condition of the cell. I might add that a lot of the cells that Brody sent me have tags on them giving his results from his La Crosse charger. My charger matches his results very closely. This is a good check of consistency between the La Crosse chargers.

This may also offer a clue why some lamps insta-flash when the light is run "hot off the charger."

Tom
 

Ginseng

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Tom,

Interesting indeed! A 0.135V/cell differential at 50% is no miniscule diffrence. An 11-cell pack (such as for the USL) would show a cumulative difference of 1.485V. That's enormous! I'm almost afraid to ask what the temperature effect would be with the standard high cap cells such as the Titanium and Energizers.

I know GP make cells specifically for high temperature use but mainly for extended trickle charging at elevated temperatures.

BTW, did you record the terminal temperature of the rested cool cells (or the other cells) at end-of-test? Wow, I'm still reeling.

Wilkey

Wow, the implications for the USL testing...I wonder what tvodrd would see versus the SF Beast if he warmed up the USL first. I imagine it would be a lot closer but only using the LongLife bulb. The axial unit would blow for sure. Wow.
 

SilverFox

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Hello Wilkey,

The CBP 1650 cells at 15 amps end up at around 115-118 F.

The cells I heated up, started at 110 F, then cooled off to about 98 F, then finished at 116 F.

The cells hot off the charger started at 93 F and rose to 118 F at the end of the test.

At lower current rates, the cells start at about 68 F and end up at about 83 F.

My method of heating the cells involved using some re-usable hand warmers. They warm up to 120 F. I put a hot pad down on the table, put the cell on top of the hot pad, put the hand warmer on top of the cell and formed it to the cell, then popped the button to activate the hand warmer. About 5 minutes later, I turned the cell over and continued heating for another 5 minutes. My temperature probe showed a starting temperature of 110 F at the start, and it cooled some from there. It did not take long (at 15 amps) to get the temperature back up. I thought the voltage held pretty good in contrast to the hump on the room temperature test that showed a small voltage rise when the cell came back up to temperature.

It would appear that charging does a better job of heating the cell up than my make-shift oven. At any rate, heat helps these cells.

Tom
 

Ginseng

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Thanks for describing your protocol. I think it makes sense.

As for the chemistry that accounts for this behavior, I'm at a loss. However, now I see why CBP might have been able to demonstrate different performance in their testing.

Wilkey
 

SilverFox

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Hello Wilkey,

Here is some very interesting information on the effects of temperature on cell performance. Although the loads are higher than what we are looking at, I think it demonstrates similar results.

Tom
 

SilverFox

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I just posted the data for the Sanyo Industrial AA 2500 cells. These are the ones with the dark green shrink wrap. Excellent cells. They give the Titanium 2400's a run for the money in keeping the voltage up under load, and beat them in capacity.

Sanyo has always been know for their quality, and it shows in these cells.

When you do a discharge test immediately after charging them (as the La Crosse charger does) they give you more capacity than they are rated at.

Excellent cells.

Tom
 

raggie33

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ty for the info silverfox will the engezer 2500 be the same? i think sanyo made the energizer 2500
 

juancho

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Hi Guys, having headaches trying to follow all this in the thread.
I just get my spanking new cbp1650 in the new colorful exterior, I put them in my Fivemega 3 to 9 holder and powered the Mag85, very nice!
Now I have to wait for my Maha 777 II from light-edge to get here to recharge them, as they don't make contact in my regulars chargers.
Now, here is the question: what is the technique to charge them in the regular charger?? it is a drop of solder in the positive??
or solder some small washer and fill up with solder?
By the way, they fit in the waion adaptors, but make contact just barely!! I had to jiggle and open and close the cover a couple of times.
The fit in the Fivemaega 3 to 9 is tight but they fit, and I like that been flat tops they stay put and don't twist around when I screw the tail-cap back into the flashlight.

Another question for you Ginseng, I have a 4 D where I am going to put 12 of these cbp1650 in waion adaptors, will the 01166 take the push from these batteries, if not, will take from Titanium 1800 ?? Another question, I noticed that Fivemega adaptors 3 to 9 are now coming with brass fittings and positives instead of the aluminum that they have before.
It is any difference in resistance bewteen the two? have anybody have meassure it??
Does brass conduct electricity better than aluminum?

Thank you for the incoming answers
regards
Juan C.
 

cognitivefun

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juancho, what kind of difference in brightness do you observe in your Mag86 with the CBP1650s?
 

SilverFox

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Hello Raggie,

The Energizer 2500's and the Sanyo Industrial 2500's are quite close, but the Sanyo's are a bit better.

Tom
 

SilverFox

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Hello Juan,

I have been using 1/8" rare earth magnets (Radio Shack #64-1895) to charge flat top cells in the Vanson and AccuManager chargers.

Tom
 

Ginseng

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Hi Juan,

The 1166 draws 1.97A so the voltage drop will be minimal. Its rated voltage is 11.6V so a fresh 12-pack will deliver over 15 volts. I would consider this extreme and almost certainly in instaflash territory. Even on 2400mAh cells like the titanium will provide an extreme initial spike. I base this on testing of Amondo Titanium 2400 cells at 2.3A which shows better than 15V for a 12-pack. 10 is very safe. 11 is a big push and 12 not likely to be good at all. I could be wrong but the low current demand is a strong point insofar as runtime but not so good for tolerating a big push.

I would not worry about the aluminum versus brass. Any resistance difference is more likely to be a result of surface cleanliness than the intrinsic conductivity of the two materials.

I'd use the small flat rare earth magnets from K&J magnetics or any one of a number of sources. Small, cheap and very low resistance due to the nickel coating.

Wilkey
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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Phooey!

I haven't found any reason to seriously dislike Energizer 2100. But they won't fit 4 across in an unbored M*g.

And if 2100 won't fit, there ain't no way in he-double hockey sticks that 2500 will!

I guess I gotta visit the auto parts store for a hone of some sort.

But 2100 seem to do fine in the FM adapters and make good light.
 

Spacemarine

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These Sanyo 2500 industrial look really interesting. Their charts look very much the same as the Energizer 2500, it seems Energizer uses the same cells.

Where can I buy these Sanyo 2500 industrial? Perhaps they are cheaper than the Energizer 2500. I found some "normal" (not industrial) Sanyo 2500 cells on eBay, does anybody know if these are the same as the industrial ones?
 

paulr

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The Sanyo HR-3U 2500 mAH industrial cells are $2.50 at Batterystation. You can get Energizer 2500's for about the same if you shop around.
 

juancho

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congnitivefun,
I could not really tell a differemce as I have two differents heads, both 3" but one has the smooth reflector and the other the orange peel, I had the new cbp1650 in the smooth, so of course I see a more powerful and concentrated beam. In the 3" LOP I had Titanium 1800 that have performed for me very well in brightness with regular 2" reflectors.
Maybe another day I will do some shooting test.

Silverfox and Ginseng, Thank you for your answers I will get some of those magnets.
Ginseng, thank you for the input in the 1166, it is much appreciated.
Juan C.
 

Pila_Power

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Wow1 I just read all of those posts and found it to be very interesting. Thanks to Tom and anyone else involved in helping to get this together.

I really know very little about batteries but am trying to learn and this thread helped (by raising a million more questions) hahaha. Oh well, we stop learning when we die I guess /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Tim.
 
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