No more lithium batteries on passenger flights???

[nexro]

Does this mean that we won't be able to carry our lithium lights on an aircraft anymore? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Press Release (PDF)

There are also some interesting tests conducted on some batteries here: Link (PDF file)

 

[wasBlinded]

The answer to your question is in the first paragraph of the document you posted a link to.

So the answer is no, you will not be prevented from carrying your lithium batteries on board with you.

 

[David_Campen]

Yep, this seems to mean that we now have contradictory rules that result in a prohibition of primary lithium batteries on passenger flights.

The press release you cited only allows primary lithiums if they are in a device:
" ... individual shipments of properly secured and packaged equipment containing
small lithium batteries (e.g., a laptop computer) still will be allowed on passenger flights. "

While another rule requires that high power lamps have the batteries removed:
http://www.uwkinetics.com/faq.htm
"Q Can I carry my dive light on board an aircraft?

A According to DOT regulations which are enforced by the FAA you can if you remove the batteries from the light.

US DOT 49 CFR Part 175.10(a)(23) "With the approval of the operator of the aircraft and as carry-on baggage, electrically powered heat-producing articles (e.g. battery-operated equipment, such as underwater torches and soldering equipment), which, if accidentally activated, will generate extreme heat and can cause fire. The heat-producing component, or the energy source, must be removed so as to prevent unintentional functioning during transport."

For more information go to http://asi.faa.gov/Docs/HAZMATByPassenger.pdf. "

 

[David_Campen]

On close reading it seems that the second rule I cited allows _either_ the "energy source" (batteries) or "heat producing component" (bulb ?) to be removed from the light.

It is to the point where you need to be a lawyer to attempt to figure out what you can carry on an airplane. I am so happy that the feds are working hard to insure my safety.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Nexro,

This sounds like a good reason to go to Li-Ion rechargeable cells.

Tom

 

[BC0311]

On a couple of recent international flights, I didn't carry any primary Lithium cells in carryon or checked luggage. Everything is unloaded. Except for my Jets22 Arc AA in my pocket. I went with Pila Lithium-Ion and alkalines.

I've used NimH rechargables as well. But, not that many of the lights I want to take abroad run on NiMhs.

This has become a real pain in the neck. I have to ship CR123A primaries to a couple of places I regularly travel to. Associates store them for me, like the military's pre-positioning of logistics.

The biggest gripe I've got though, is that I can't take my Zippo lighters anymore. I can't stand those damn throwaway butane lighters.

Morons at HomeSec and TSA are always preparing for yesteryear's attacks. My 6 year old son had to remove his sneakers 4 times on a trip from Florida to Michigan in December.

Friggin' airlines haven't even installed El-Al style cockpit doors. They aren't serious about any of this. Cheap-a$$, stupid.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif

I hope Delta, American and a few others go belly up and free-up some hubs and routes for fresh, no-nonsense carriers. Stockholders ought to bite it for not holding their BofDs' feet to the fire.

Britt

 

[David_Campen]

[ QUOTE ]
This sounds like a good reason to go to Li-Ion rechargeable cells.

[/ QUOTE ]
But, even ignoring the voltage difference, Li-Ion cells don't even approach the energy density of primary Li cells, do they?

 

[greenLED]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

Although I agree with maintaining high standards of safety, I strongly disagree with these type of decisions. Instead of making sure the packaging and bulk shipping methods are safe, they outright ban everything. That's as stupid as killing your dog to get rid of its flees /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif I see this a lot in corporate environments.

I just read through the PDF and it seems to me the restrictions only apply to shipments of lith batts. They explicitly mention laptop batts are OK, so I am sure half-a-dozen 123's in a Peli case (with contacts properly insulated) would be OK to carry on board ("they're for my camera and flashlight, sir"...)... assuming the TSA-dude behind the counter is reasonable...

 

[James S]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

[ QUOTE ]
assuming the TSA-dude behind the counter is reasonable

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry...

 

[RadarGreg]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

Ok, I think we have some definition problems here. A torch, as referenced to the DOT regulation, means a underwater device that burns even underwater. It doesn't mean a torch, or flashlight, as the Brits refer to it. Brits have boots, we have trunks. We have hoods; Brits have bonnets. If the TSA goon squad asks what you have in your suitcase, you tell them it is a flashlight. If you say it is a torch, you are going to at the minimum lose your flashlight and probably enjoy a cavity check as well.

RadarGreg

 

[daloosh]

Anyone know what a cargo shipment is defined as? Is a box of lithiums in my suitcase a cargo shipment or an individual shipment? Or maybe an individual shipment is inside an appliance, like two batteries in a flashlight.

Finally, the example of an individual shipment is a laptop computer? How many laptops use non-rechargeable lithium batteries, I didn't know there was such a thing! Is there?

Very confusing. I guess the takeaway is like Britt, to send your batteries ahead, or bring them in flashlights, or use alkalines and rechargeables. Hmm, that Lionheart and Lioncub sound just right!

daloosh

 

[David_Campen]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

[ QUOTE ]
A torch, as referenced to the DOT regulation, means a underwater device that burns even underwater.

[/ QUOTE ]
Burn as in combustion? No, I don't think that is what they mean. By "torch" they mean "handheld lamp"; that is why this section is illustrated by a picture of a hand-held dive light and states "battery operated equipment, such as underwater torches ..."

See the bottom of the 8th page:
http://asi.faa.gov/Docs/HAZMATByPassenger.pdf

 

[RadarGreg]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

Yep, you are right. I didn't figure the FAA and DOT would be that stupid or use that term for a flashlight. So, pack your batteries outside the flashlight and you are ok. I think your chances of going down in a ball of aircraft flame are better due to a drunk pilot than a flashlight burning the cargo area.

RadarGreg

 

[David_Campen]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

[ QUOTE ]
So, pack your batteries outside the flashlight and you are ok.

[/ QUOTE ]
But then you conflict with the latest rule which says that Li primary batteries are only OK if they are _inside_ a device.

http://www.thecompliancecenter.com/PDF/ASHIFRFAAPressRelease.pdf

 

[David_Campen]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

So what is needed to meet the requirements is a functioning, battery powered device that doesn't produce heat. Say, a 10 cell flashlight with a single 100 mW LED driven at 25 mW. Best if there is no lens cover over the LED so the inspector can feel that it doesn't get hot. Also the housing should be plastic and squat so it doesn't look like it could be used as a club.

 

[nexro]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

so, I supposed having them inside a light should be okay. If not, using an R123 in a light should be fine? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Stanley]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

According to the 1st article, 2nd last paragraph, its ok to have the Lithiums on board provided they are in use with the equipment, and that they are properly secured. Lithium battery shipments are ok ONLY for all cargo flights, so in other words its still ok, provided you don't carry a cache of spare Lithiums or try and ship a package of Lithiums on a passenger flight, right?

 

[beezaur]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

Below is the box that my Surefire A2 came in last week. It contained one empty spares carrier, one spare bulb, and one A2 with batteries installed, tailcap locked out.

Scott

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

 

[greenLED]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

Puzzling... so it's OK to have an A2 as carry-on, but you can't ship it. My friend Charlie Brown would say: "Good grief!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

 

[Stanley]

Re: No more lithium batteries on passenger flights

I guess you can ship it (or lithium batts for that matter), provided that its not done so using a passenger aircraft, hence the warning label on Beezaur's box... That makes a bit more sense now...