Not the best news from Surefire...

How long has the US military been using the M16?? Anyone? since the 1960's.

And what a piece of junk it was. We got them in 1968 and had to give up the great M14. :green:

Back on topic. I am very happy to have people that work for SureFire here, it gives a sense of caring to me and from time to time some very essential information. :twothumbs
 
Stuart, welcome back. Nice to see another manufacturer that ventures to this side of the board. There are very manufacturers that do. It is a very difficult, and possibly impossible job to please everyone on such a public place like this.

There are a lot of people taking this way too personal. This is a forum about flashlights, can't we keep it objective (and on topic)?


I try to look only at lights that are currently available. I don't think it ever hurt anyone to wait a couple days until a light has been reviewed to buy it.
 
Thank you to everyone for the warm welcome/wecome back. I hang out here a lot. I have learned a lot from lurking around. The one thing I would remind you all is that I act alone and not on behalf of the company. If there is something I can do to help I most certainly will. I may not always be quick to respond as I have a very full plate that typically does not involve customer service anymore, but I will do what I can to help. Thanks.
 
Thank you to everyone for the warm welcome/wecome back. I hang out here a lot. I have learned a lot from lurking around. The one thing I would remind you all is that I act alone and not on behalf of the company. If there is something I can do to help I most certainly will. I may not always be quick to respond as I have a very full plate that typically does not involve customer service anymore, but I will do what I can to help. Thanks.

:thanks: Stuart for all your assistance here on CPF. It's very nice to have a Surefire Rep here on the forums. :thumbsup:
 
+1

By far the best part of this thread.

I agree!

I am not a Surefire expert...and am not their target consumer. I have owned a few of their lights...starting back from 1989...and they are the company that started making me interested in the industry. I guess what is hard for myself and others here is that in my humble opinion...Surefire has changed from the company I first Loved. I used to look at lights like the M6 and even my M3 with its hola lamp...and brag to my friends...who just didn't get it.... that it was a good thing that the light used 3x$8 batteries that only lasted 20 minutes...and that the light was WAAAY over engineered from what it needed to be..... they were the Porche of flashlights...nothing else even came close...

In another thread, the topic was "is it a boring time for flashaholics" Part of me thinks it is...because the lights we want to buy...Super cool...M series 350 lumen (or even 200) led...over engineered flashlights BY SUREFIRE at this time do not exhist. That makes us sad...even though Fenix or Olight etc...make them, they are not Surefires.

I always felt that Surefires were made for US...not just military or LE personell....for people who 'got it' and were willing to gladly shell out the money for a incredible product. I do not see Surefire's current led products being that. Good, sure...reliable...sure...phenominal...no.

So I see both sides. I am sure that Surefire sells a ton of lights now...to people who truely need them. But the excitement for myself is not there anymore. Thats why myself and others it seems are dissapointed.

I always felt Surefire WAS the cutting edge. Now, it is Fenix, Olight and others that first put MC-E emmiters on their lights...and Cree Q5's and R2's. Its just that several years ago, if you asked many of us light enthusiasts who would always come out with the next best thing first, we would have (or at least I would have) said it would be (OF COURSE) SUREFIRE.

So, while I wish them the very best... please understand my dissapointment that they are not still the runtime be damned output and toughness is ALL that matters flashlight company....in the led market that is.

Again, this is coming from a fan who has bought a decent ammount of their lights...not just a critic.
 
I would not be so bogged down.

Despite what is said here about Surefire not being for US, and bla bla, I still believe they are in some way intended for other than military and LEo as some may want to make us believe.

The wide distribution channel says it all. Surefires are made available to the public through many stores. Surefire has also run adds and big advertisement pages in Flying magazine for example. Why would they do this ? many outdoor avids also purchase Surefires. The truth is a Surefire is a beautiful and reliable light that comes in handy for just about anybody that has the money to buy one.

Too, also look after whom they name their models, it is the best explanation of their target market.

See now, it is really easy to make a case that they are intended for US.
 
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Well from what I gather the whole reason many CPF'ers buy Surefire products is BECAUSE they are so durable and reliable and thats what many of us desire from a handheld light. Yes its allways nice to have a 500+ lumen light that can cook a turkey AND be used to slice it too but is that 500+ lumen light and its host reliable? Was it produced with good workmanship in mind or "damn these things are new and in high demand lets throw em out there and make our dollar!" Now since theres allready plenty of other companies out there that throw a light together and put it to market in a month we dont need Surefire to compromise their quality just so they can be ready today. Everybody is asking for two completly different things! Say Surefire made a P7 or XRE light and put it out a month after it came out. Everybody would OOOO and AHHHH until 2 months later when all the threads come up "My new Surefire super-dee-duper-lumen light broke, SF sucks!" So that being said do you wanna wait 8 months and have an amazing light with an "outdated" emitter that will last you many years to come or an inferior product today?
Please keep in mind this is just my friendly input on the matter! I just know id rather wait and have a better light that may be "outdated" but who cares! it will more than likely be a much more useful light also.

And to say that CPF isnt Surefires intend market may be true but MANY of the people that frequent CPF are part of the group(s) that Surefire designed their lights for and around.
 
Surefires are intended for anyone who wants a rugged, tough, reliable light that is overbuilt for the purposes that many folks will put them through.

Surefire hasn't always met with success, regarding those above-mentioned traits.

But the company has hit the 10-ring more often than it has missed.
 
Thank you to everyone for the warm welcome/wecome back. I hang out here a lot. I have learned a lot from lurking around. The one thing I would remind you all is that I act alone and not on behalf of the company. If there is something I can do to help I most certainly will. I may not always be quick to respond as I have a very full plate that typically does not involve customer service anymore, but I will do what I can to help. Thanks.

Enjoy having you here Stuart 🙂

Thanks again for sorting out my U2 switch issues a few years ago when you were still doing CS😀 :twothumbs

Sverre

PS! Still hoping for an Optimus sometime in the not too distant future:poke: 😉
 
I'd add that the company really stands behind its products. My daily carry 6Z is 10 years old but only because it has been repeatedly "rebuilt" by SureFire providing replacements for parts that were really just casualties of extended service and accidental damage, which most companies wouldn't consider covering.


Surefires are intended for anyone who wants a rugged, tough, reliable light that is overbuilt for the purposes that many folks will put them through.

Surefire hasn't always met with success, regarding those above-mentioned traits.

But the company has hit the 10-ring more often than it has missed.
 
Yes its allways nice to have a 500+ lumen light that can cook a turkey AND be used to slice it too but is that 500+ lumen light and its host reliable?


It seems that more and more often there are indeed companies who are producing very bright, very reliable lights. I think that most people who have been around for a few months would probably name 5-10 companies who have a good reputation around here. This doesn't reflect badly at all on Surefire, only to state observation. Additionally, some of these companies seem to build on their success and sometimes blow us away with great innovation and really trick stuff. JetBeam used to be garbage imo. They overstated performance, had more than there fair share of failures and there was a lot of grumbling about them when you performed a search. Now disappointment is nearly non-existent and some of their products leave me scratching my head thinking, 'that's a lot of light for the money.' It's not just JB either because there are many surprisingly good lights out there.


JNewell
I'd add that the company really stands behind its products. My daily carry 6Z is 10 years old but only because it has been repeatedly "rebuilt" by SureFire providing replacements for parts that were really just casualties of extended service and accidental damage, which most companies wouldn't consider covering.
I'm happy for SF and SF owners that this is still the case. It seems to be one of the main things that separates them from others. Thankfully we've got some great dealers that usually take care of issues right away whether it's a problem with a Surefire or Fenix. The question is what's the dealer and or Fenix going to do for you two or three years from now? With Surefire we already know the answer. They've proven themselves over the years and it's one of the reasons that I'm so confident in their products.







One final thought that I do have about Surefire being slow to release some of their long anticipated lights is that the longer it takes the more likely we are to default our money into other products. For example, I've had money put away in expectation of certain Surefire lights being released but when they don't come about I spend the money on other lights instead. Some have been pre-owned Surefires, while others have been lights like the Zebralight, Bitz, Lummi, JetBeam & Fenix. Now I've been happy with all of my purchases but if other choices from Surefire had been available I would have spent my money there first. Lights like the UA2, UB3, X400, ARC-2, & parts like the LUT10L have all been on my "to buy" list for 6-12 months.
Since I have spent money on other lights due to Surefire unavailability, when the new ones are finally released I'll probably have to settle for the two I want most like the X400 and UA2. I do not think this speaks poorly of Surefire but does point out a fact of life, at least with regards to my life, about how consumer's choose how/when to spend their money. Often when consumers can't get what they really want, for whatever reason, they'll get what they perceive is the next best thing. I see this as a loosing proposition for both parties. As the consumer I'd much rather buy Surefire but there is a limit to how long I'll wait. I'm also pretty sure that Surefire would rather that I spend my money on their products regardless of how many procurement contracts they already have.

It's been argued that it's not uncommon for Surefire to have products in their catalogs that never made production and that's true. It's also my notion that we might be seeing the end of this way of doing things. Look at it this way, every product that wasn't released for sale was and expectation that wasn't met from the public's perspective. That kind of history can also cast doubts on whether or not will see some of the lights promised last year and that's evident in many discussions here when the topic arises. In any case, I'm simply trying to convey that timely release dates are in fact important because everyone stands to benefit.
 
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I am actually amazed that SureFire puts products in catalogs that never ship, or ship with extended delays. If I ran a company and we managed to go two years in a row with "aspirational" products in our catalog, we'd be able to save on G&A expenses for office furnishings, because some folks would be out the door and the rest (including foremost myself) would have been kicked to hard in the rear that we could sell all the office chairs because no one would be able to sit down any more...I really love SureFire, but that doesn't mean the company is perfect.
 
I am actually amazed that SureFire puts products in catalogs that never ship, or ship with extended delays. If I ran a company and we managed to go two years in a row with "aspirational" products in our catalog, we'd be able to save on G&A expenses for office furnishings, because some folks would be out the door and the rest (including foremost myself) would have been kicked to hard in the rear that we could sell all the office chairs because no one would be able to sit down any more...I really love SureFire, but that doesn't mean the company is perfect.



Yeah something is out of synchronization there. I hate to suggest this, but I was wondering if much of the hype about the planned models was stirred as a result of the SHOT show. I know many of these lights were shared or demonstrated at the CPF party but I wonder if they let the cat out of the bag too soon in an effort to kindly include CPFers in what's happening behind the scenes?

I could be way off in left field with that idea though.
 
Yeah something is out of synchronization there. I hate to suggest this, but I was wondering if much of the hype about the planned models was stirred as a result of the SHOT show. I know many of these lights were shared or demonstrated at the CPF party but I wonder if they let the cat out of the bag too soon in an effort to kindly include CPFers in what's happening behind the scenes?

I could be way off in left field with that idea though.

No CPF party hosted by PK at the SHOT show this year, maybe next year. You know, it is only because SF is not so forthcoming with us CPF'ers that we find ourselves drifting off into reading between the lines and making up our own stories about what is going on. The truth is we are blowing in the wind and nothing more, and truth be know, or not known, SF does not have to tell us a thing, or give us any reasons why they do this or that, and speaking for me, I don't care. I do check in here to see how the drama is going. No offense intended here on my part, just my observation. 😀

Bill
 
No CPF party hosted by PK at the SHOT show this year, maybe next year. You know, it is only because SF is not so forthcoming with us CPF'ers that we find ourselves drifting off into reading between the lines and making up our own stories about what is going on. The truth is we are blowing in the wind and nothing more, and truth be know, or not known, SF does not have to tell us a thing, or give us any reasons why they do this or that, and speaking for me, I don't care. I do check in here to see how the drama is going. No offense intended here on my part, just my observation. 😀

Bill


None taken 🙂

I was referring to last year's SHOT where we got the first glimpse of the UA2 and other lights. I don't feel that the most recent discussion involved any "reading between the lines or making up stories" but had to do more with product promotion. Not only were we not suggesting that Surefire had to tell us anything, we were actually questioning whether they may have even told us too much, too early. You might have to read back several posts to see what I'm stating in context. 🙂
 
Again, I just think some are impatient or anxious for the goodies. This shoud be well taken by Surefire, they are demostrating enthusiasm. I don´t think anyone here is demanding explanations for delays from Surefire.

What is even more curious is that some members seem to be touchier on the subject than Surefire representatives are.
 
What is even more curious is that some members seem to be touchier on the subject than Surefire representatives are.

Quite right. Sort of burned out on the SF threads, particularly the ones that end badly. Dozens of threads on SF and most everything said here has been said dozens of times in different ways. Research other threads and we will have fewer redundant threads here on CPF.

Bill
 
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