Odd performance with lumens factory lamps

Megalamuffin

Megalamuffin

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I just got some lamps from lumens factory today and was going through all the usual testing batteries and such to see what combinations were compatible. Fun stuff as always. One of the lamps I bought was the EO6 which is 200 lumens with 6 volts. I have some keeppower 3v rcr123’s that have performed really well with a surefire p60; 40 minutes of full output runtime with my testing. I expected a similar thing with the lumens factory eo6, but after less than a minute of being on it drops to about 5 lumens. I tried this twice with fully charged batteries each time. The EO6 works just fine with cr123’s or a 16650. What would be the reason the eo6 is not compatible with the 3v rcr’s while a p60 works great? I also have surefire 3.2v rcr123’s but since surefire doesn’t recommend their use with p60’s I assume the same practice with the lumens factory lamps of the same voltage.

Also on a side note, I tried the eo6 in a malkoff VME head with a long 880 mah 16340 in an e1 body and got no power. It looks like the battery is too short to make contact with that setup. It does work with an e2 body. Has anyone else had luck with a similar e1 setup?
 
Megalamuffin

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After trying it a third time with the same result I took the batteries out and noticed the battery that was touching the lamp was hot to the touch. The battery on the tailcap end was not. I would check the voltage of the batteries before and after but I don’t have a tester.

After charging them up the batteries still work normally in a p60. I am disappointed they don’t work in the eo6. The 200 lumens of the eo6 stomps a p60 initially but it drops brightness so quickly with 123’s that it’s really not any better practically speaking. If the rcr123’s worked it would have been awesome. I guess I should have gone with the eo4 instead.
 
bykfixer

bykfixer

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Perhaps you can email Mark and explain this to him and maybe he'll know why, and can offer a solution.
But I'll say this, sometimes the Honda engine won't make a Chevrolet go. In other words the batteries chosen won't drive the bulb. Perhaps the protection circuit says "no way dude, you aint doing that to me"……
 
fivemega

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3 volt protected batteries drop to 2.5 volts under load of 1.2 Amp and not good for higher current bulbs.

If you can, go with 2x18500 batteries and 9 volt nominal bulb such as P90, EO9 or P91

Much brighter and longer run time but only 34mm longer body.
 
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vicv

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The the batteries can’t handle the load. I really like my ho4 for a 2 cell rechargeable light.
 
Megalamuffin

Megalamuffin

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I did talk to Mark at LF and he told me the HO6 is not designed for any kind of rechargeable batteries. No big deal since I plan to get an eo4 which has almost the same output and will run on a 16650 and stay in regulation much better than 123’s anyways.

I have come to like the HO6. It does suck the batteries down quick, but even at half power it’s comparable to a p60 with fresh cells. Nice big hotspot. It doesn’t fit in a surefire spares carrier when it’s full of batteries so that kinda stinks.
 
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yazkaz

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I did talk to Mark at LF and he told me the HO6 is not designed for any kind of rechargeable batteries. No big deal since I plan to get an eo4 which has almost the same output and will run on a 16650 and stay in regulation much better than 123’s anyways.

I have come to like the HO6. It does suck the batteries down quick, but even at half power it’s comparable to a p60 with fresh cells. Nice big hotspot. It doesn’t fit in a surefire spares carrier when it’s full of batteries so that kinda stinks.
Follow FM's advice, go get a 9V (7.4V rated) bulb instead and use 2xRCR123a (3.7V). It's workable, even though runtime will be quite short. With the 6P setup I would recommend the HO9 just to extend a bit runtime.
 
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rrego

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I just got some lamps from lumens factory today and was going through all the usual testing batteries and such to see what combinations were compatible. Fun stuff as always. One of the lamps I bought was the EO6 which is 200 lumens with 6 volts. I have some keeppower 3v rcr123’s that have performed really well with a surefire p60; 40 minutes of full output runtime with my testing. I expected a similar thing with the lumens factory eo6, but after less than a minute of being on it drops to about 5 lumens. I tried this twice with fully charged batteries each time. The EO6 works just fine with cr123’s or a 16650. What would be the reason the eo6 is not compatible with the 3v rcr’s while a p60 works great? I also have surefire 3.2v rcr123’s but since surefire doesn’t recommend their use with p60’s I assume the same practice with the lumens factory lamps of the same voltage.

Also on a side note, I tried the eo6 in a malkoff VME head with a long 880 mah 16340 in an e1 body and got no power. It looks like the battery is too short to make contact with that setup. It does work with an e2 body. Has anyone else had luck with a similar e1 setup?
When I saw this post, I was hoping for the same result using these Keeppower RCR 3 volt batteries. However, I blew 2 P60 lamps with them, using a 6P light.

Did you let them rest when using them on a P60 xenon lamp? Or did you use them off of the charger? If they are regulated to 3 volt, I thought they'd be good to use right away? I was wrong.

On the other hand the KP RCR 3 volt batts worked well in my P2X Fury Intellibeam light. Gave me 52 minutes of regulated (too my eyes) runtime. I had bought it in hopes of using 16650s in it, but that didn't work (bad performance on 16650).
 
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yazkaz

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When I saw this post, I was hoping for the same result using these Keeppower RCR 3 volt batteries. However, I blew 2 P60 lamps with them, using a 6P light.

Did you let them rest when using them on a P60 xenon lamp? Or did you use them off of the charger? If they are regulated to 3 volt, I thought they'd be good to use right away? I was wrong.

On the other hand the KP RCR 3 volt batts worked well in my P2X Fury Intellibeam light. Gave me 52 minutes of regulated (too my eyes) runtime. I had bought it in hopes of using 16650s in it, but that didn't work (bad performance on 16650).
The P60's filament is rated at 4.8V, so even 2xRCR (2x3.2V) is too high I believe.
 
Megalamuffin

Megalamuffin

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When I saw this post, I was hoping for the same result using these Keeppower RCR 3 volt batteries. However, I blew 2 P60 lamps with them, using a 6P light.

Did you let them rest when using them on a P60 xenon lamp? Or did you use them off of the charger? If they are regulated to 3 volt, I thought they'd be good to use right away? I was wrong.

On the other hand the KP RCR 3 volt batts worked well in my P2X Fury Intellibeam light. Gave me 52 minutes of regulated (too my eyes) runtime. I had bought it in hopes of using 16650s in it, but that didn't work (bad performance on 16650).

I don’t think the 3v rcr’s were fresh off the charger any of the times I used them with a p60 but I can’t remember for certain. I haven’t had issues with them so far, including when I did a runtime test and the p60 went full bore for 40 minutes.

The 3v rcr’s are really ideal for single cell 123 led lights that can fit them. It really transforms the high mode performance and lasts twice as long as the surefire lithium phosphate rechargeables. The only 2 cell lights I can get them to fit in are p60’s.
 
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vicv

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Lithium ion batteries do not have a higher voltage/lower resistance “fresh off the charger.” That’s an nicd/nimh thing. They don’t need to be rested
 
chillinn

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Lithium ion batteries do not have a higher voltage/lower resistance “fresh off the charger.” That’s an nicd/nimh thing. They don’t need to be rested

Brand new Li-ion cells charge to 4.2V. An hour later they'll be at 4.18V, and remain there for weeks, unless or until abused, when they may rest at 4.19V. Older Li-ion with many recharge cycles after charging will stabilize fully rested at a lower and lower voltage, 4.14V, 4.12V, etc.

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything, and is not the reason why you should always rest cells of all chemistries after use and before charging, and after charging and before use, unless you're stinking rich and don't care about ragging your cells.

Reaction products build up around the two poles of the battery and slow down the reaction. By letting the battery rest, you give the reaction products a chance to dissipate. The higher the drain on the battery, the faster the products build up, so batteries under high drain appear to recover more.
source: https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/question390.htm

Also, heat destroys cells. So charging a hot battery is not so good for the cell, in fact it is bad, and discharging a hot battery is the same thing. I have murdered a lot of Li-ion and NiMH cells by running them hot off the charger, and sticking them back on as soon as they're empty. LiFePO4 seems to tolerate a lot of abuse (including massively overcharging) with less of the negative effects mentioned next.

Charging unrested cells and discharging unrested cells (and dropping cells on hard surfaces, overdischarging, and overcharging) is what we refer to as abusing cells, or battery abuse. Abused cells will suffer capacity loss, and worse, they'll also lose the ability to provide the expected normal amps. This negative effect is greater when higher capacity cells are abused, which generally are more fragile than their lower capacity brethren.

I like to rest cells a full 24 hours before use, but an hour is fine, and even less in cooler ambient temperatures. 10 minutes is probably fine, so long as the cell is no longer warm.
 
Last edited:
fivemega

fivemega

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Lithium ion batteries do not have a higher voltage/lower resistance “fresh off the charger.” That’s an nicd/nimh thing. They don’t need to be rested
Hot off the charger lithium ion also looses the voltage after a while but amount is less than NiMH or NiCad and voltage holding time is longer.
 

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