OMS Phantom 10w HID to LED Conversion Options?

Dawsona2

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Hi all,

[yes, I am new here and this is my first post...but no proper introductions allowed in this particular forum :) ]
I bought a used OMS Phantom 10W HID Canister light off of ebay from a lady who said it as her late husband's and it would turn on about 1/4 brightness for a second, then shut off. I got it for $170 US including shipping. So, I disassembled every thing, cleaned everything, reconditioned the O-rings, made sure the connections on the PCB were good and made sure it all went back together the right way. It seems that there was some sort of issue with the factory reed switch/hall sensor. Before, disassembly, a strong magnet would get the light to power up correctly, but the switch would not. After reassembly, all is working great!

So, I am unimpressed with the factory materials: the wiring from the batteries [11.1V lithium ion, appears to be 6AA batteries in a pack] to the light head looks like speaker wire.

My questions are:

1. Does anyone have a link to a guide [with pictures and part numbers] to convert this light to LED?
2. Is it worth it to do so?
3. Would adding more Lithium Ion AA batteries to the current pack help with burntime and light output lumens?Or is this NOT the way to modify battery packs?
4. What is the best we can do that fits in this housing? That is, what LED setup will fit in this housing with the most lumens and burntime?

I have searched and not found what I am looking for, yet. I know my way around a multimeter, can solder just fine, and know simple electronics.

Thanks!!!!
 

Dawsona2

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Well, seems like a tough crowd. I will have to do more research and see if I can find more hospitable folks for new comers....
 

Dawsona2

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Thanks Bill!

To add to the thead....

I have heard of the SST-50 and SST-90 and XML LEDs...was wondering how small of a PCB is needed to mount them?

I have the dimensions of the light head :)
 

Dawsona2

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I was looking at these LEDs:

SST50
SST90
XML

I have the dimensions of the light head, but not sure of the minimum size of PCB for those LEDs needed. Anyone know this?

I am also wondering how big of a heatsink to get and where to get one? How to mount it to the PCB/LED?

Thanks!
 

DIWdiver

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Welcome to the forum! Sorry nobody's said that yet.

What you are asking is a big, wide open question, so maybe people are having a hard time responding. There aren't really definitive answers to your questions. I don't know where you originally posted, but this is the right place for your questions! As you learn, you'll find that you can ask more specific, targeted questions that will elicit more energetic responses.

The vast majority of us use LEDs already mounted. What they are mounted on goes by many names - PCB (printed circuit board), MCPCB (metal core PCB, for most of us the only useful way to mount it), star (named for the 6-sided, slotted MCPCB's that were originally ubiquitous, but now are only common), and some other less common ones. If you find that pre-mounted emitters on stars (AKA LEDs on MCPCBs) don't suit your needs, you can buy bare emitters (AKA LEDs not mounted on stars) and mount them yourself. That can yield better performance and/or fit than pre-mounted ones, but most of us find it's not worth the time, money, and effort required to develop the tools and skills to do it.

The batteries in your pack could well be AA size, but are more likely 18650 size. That's a bit bigger than an AA. An 18650 is 18 mm diameter, 65 mm long, and r0und (cylindrical), ergo 18,65,0. An AA lithium ion cell is also referred to as a 14500 cell, as it's 14 mm diameter and 50 mm long. The 18650 is the most common size of LiIon cell (used in many laptops), so tends to be the leader in price/performance among LiIon cells. FYI, the AA cell is the most widely produced alkaline cell, so it is the price/performance leader in alkalines.

Now, as to modding your light...

If it's working well, you might want to leave it alone. Depending on what kind of light you want, you may or may not be able to improve it by converting to LED. LEDs offer better efficacy (similar to efficiency) but can't be focused as well and don't have as clean and uniform a spectral output as HID. But if you want raw output and long burn times, LEDs are now past the point where anything else can compete. Neither of those will change in the near future.

So if you want specific recommendations as to what to do with your light, you'll have to be more specific about what you want out of your light. Telling us what you plan on using it for would go a long way toward that goal.
 

Dawsona2

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DIWDiver...THANK YOU!! I am a regular on a few other forums...Subaru Forester, etc, and I get the part about being more specific with my questions for a better response from the crowd :) I am a newb at lighting and as such was unable to be specific enough.

Really, thank you for your great and explicit response!!! Very kind of you! I am very excited to begin working with this category of electronics! Being bitten by the lighting bug is an awesome feeling!

Well, I wonder if this might help:

My OMS Phantom 10W HID came to me with a switch issue. Seems that the reed switch/hall sensor is not operating very well. I thought I had fixed the problem with a disassembly, inspection, and reassembly. I did a bath tub test for about 40 mins and all was fine. I drained the tub with the light still on....it may have over heated as the light shut off right after all of the water was drained. Then, the light was back to where it started: flipping the switch, the light would turn on to about 5% brightness for about 2 seconds, then shut off. Any ideas on what is wrong and a way to fix it?

It seems the quality of the parts are not the best. So, I wondered about an LED conversion that would fit into the current light head and canister housing. Any ideas if I provide the dimensions? I saw quite a few people talking about converting an OMS Phantom 10W HID to LED so I thought it would be a basic and common topic. Any links?

I am looking for a higher output from an LED light. I used to have a GreenForce Flexi II with a Tri-Star and Halogen light heads, excellent light. I love that LEDs are more efficient, way more durable, and I love that I can build this myself :)

Thanks!
 

DIWdiver

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Most HID lights don't like to be turned on and off. They take a while to warm up, and it's especially hard on them to turn off and back on without sufficient cooling in between. That's one of the advantages of LEDs - they can be turned on and off thousands of times per second (yes, that's right), with no ill effects.

Heat is also an issue, more so with LED than with HID, but possibly the light didn't like being run out of water (which can make a remarkable difference with heat). I'd say let it cool down and run it in water again before deciding there's something wrong with it.

If you just want more light, a single XM-L can blow the doors off a 10W HID. An XM-L2 is a bit better, both the former and the latter being run at 10W. An SST-90 is even more light, but less efficient, at higher power levels.
 

Dawsona2

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Most HID lights don't like to be turned on and off. They take a while to warm up, and it's especially hard on them to turn off and back on without sufficient cooling in between. That's one of the advantages of LEDs - they can be turned on and off thousands of times per second (yes, that's right), with no ill effects.

Heat is also an issue, more so with LED than with HID, but possibly the light didn't like being run out of water (which can make a remarkable difference with heat). I'd say let it cool down and run it in water again before deciding there's something wrong with it.

If you just want more light, a single XM-L can blow the doors off a 10W HID. An XM-L2 is a bit better, both the former and the latter being run at 10W. An SST-90 is even more light, but less efficient, at higher power levels.

Awsome! So, if one buys an XM-L...does it come mounted on a PCBA or on a metal-core PCBA? Then, do I check the spec sheet to see how large the PCBA is to ensure it will fit inside my light head and see that my current battery supply will work?

The light had this same issue with failing to turn on when I bought it. A strong magnet to the outside of the housing will get light to turn on properly.
 

jason 77

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Awsome! So, if one buys an XM-L...does it come mounted on a PCBA or on a metal-core PCBA? Then, do I check the spec sheet to see how large the PCBA is to ensure it will fit inside my light head and see that my current battery supply will work?

You can choose to buy XML LED's unmounted or already mounted to MCPCB,s like DIYdiver has said above. Just search this site for XML and you will get hundreds of threads about that LED. If you decide to convert your light to using an LED you will not be able to use the ballast that the HID bulb used, you will have to find a driver that will work with your battery pack. I would suggest you search through this site and see all the other threads where people have modified flashlights to work with LED's. Here is one of mine to give you an idea of what your in for.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...irst-official-modified-flash-light&highlight=



The light had this same issue with failing to turn on when I bought it. A strong magnet to the outside of the housing will get light to turn on properly.

Is your light the same as the one in this article, if so I would think the light is working and just doesn't like being turned on when it is not in water?

http://www.divernet.com/Diving_Gear/diver_tests/158533/light_oms_phantom_canister.html
 

Dawsona2

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Is your light the same as the one in this article, if so I would think the light is working and just doesn't like being turned on when it is not in water?

http://www.divernet.com/Diving_Gear/diver_tests/158533/light_oms_phantom_canister.html

Fantastic!! Thank you Jason 77!! I will read those threads now.Perhaps, as a new member the search engine was limiting me just as it was with other features.

So, the light came to me malfunctioning. As the switch was activated, the light would come on at about 5% brightness for about 2 seconds, then shut off.

I disassembled the light, cleaned and inspected everything, reconditioned the O-rings, and carefully reassembled the components..making sure the PCB and reed switch/hall sensor was correctly aligned.

Immediately, the light worked as expected: actuating the switch, the light would turn on to about 80% brightness and increase gradually to 100% in about 5-7 seconds, everytime! That is, until the bathtub test above :(

Any ideas? Ever hear of this?

You guys ROCK for all of your help!!!!
 

bshanahan14rulz

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If this light has seen heavy use or is really old, is it possible that the battery pack could be worn out?

My thinking:
HIDs require higher power during startup to strike the arc, and then crank the power down to the 10W that the bulb wants slowly, in order to maintain the arc. So, when you first turn it on, it will need to draw more power from the battery. Older batteries' voltage may droop or sag more during a high current discharge than when they were new, and it could be that a battery protection circuit is cutting out. A cleanup would have reduced any possible connection resistance issues at least temporarily, and maybe enough to make the possible battery voltage sag issue less likely to trip a protection circuit, so maybe that is why it worked for a while after disassembly. Kind of a long shot, though, and I don't know why a bathtub test would cause it to not work again.

It could also be true that the bulb is worn out, as the electrodes wear down bit by bit every time you start the light.

I'd not recommend doing an LED conversion, because the reflectors will have different focal points, and the place where you'd have to position the LED for best focus would not make use of the entire reflector, while the place you position the LED for maximum light hitting the reflector would result in a floody or even ugly doughnutty ring. This light is so close to working properly,
 

Dawsona2

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Thanks, there is no reflector in this light per se...it is in the HID bulb itself.

The battery was tested by OMS and deemed in working condition.

I used my multimeter, and got 11.3V...pack says 11.1V.

Any other ideas?
 

Dawsona2

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I have access to a full machine shop and am pretty well capable for what I am in for....provided I know what to do ;)

That is indeed THE exact light I have.

hmmm...maybe I should call OMS and ask them what is up with it...

I am surprised that no one has modified this popular light before....during searches, this light seemed to be converted to LED often...

I would love to figure this out...convert it to LED and do a great write up on it :)
 

Dawsona2

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May 13, 2014
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I have the dimensions of the light head's internal space so we know how much room we have.

Would that help with anyone's ability to recommend an LED to go in there?

Say a manufactured PCBA with an XM-L on it :)
 

Dawsona2

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May 13, 2014
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The "cargo bay" of my light head is about 1.4" inside diameter by about 2.8" deep. So, that is cylindrical :)

Anyone have a suggestion of an LED/PCB combo that will fit there?
 
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