Options for budget pure self-defense strobe flashlight, almost no other priority, at least 2000 lumen.

letschat7

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That's good stuff. Next thing you know there will be a post how the Seals carry a G19, and a link to order maritime cups.

There's a lot of 1337s in my area…most of the hog hunters have thermal imaging and silencers.
I nearly bought some maritime cups for a G17 once but my common sense kicked in and I realised I would never be shooting underwater.

FLIR is even more 1337!
 

ghostguy6

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A kubaton would not be legal carry in the UK.
That's why I said apply those techniques with a flashlight, at least you could argue your intent was not to carry a weapon but merely a tool. The same could apply to an all metal pen that wasn't marketed as a self defence tool. One could also argue the flashlight is used to help avoid those dangerous situations.

The best self defence is a good situational awareness. The ability to avoid the situation before it starts will serve you far better than any weapon out there.

The only light I would ever truly rely upon to slow somone down long enough to run away would be a flashbang, but I highly doubt those are legal in the UK.
 

Monocrom

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As far as use of a Kubaton goes....

Maglite will NEVER admit this fact. But their Mini-Maglite 2AA model was originally created as a street-legal Kubaton. However, at that time, it turned out to be the best option for an easily-carried EDC and work-light. Becoming wildly popular with the masses, Maglite decided to just quietly pretend it was created only as a flashlight.

So, there you go. UK legal Kubaton. Just never openly admit you carry it for self-defense. Nope! It's just a useful "torch."
 

James9000

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That's why I said apply those techniques with a flashlight, at least you could argue your intent was not to carry a weapon but merely a tool. The same could apply to an all metal pen that wasn't marketed as a self defence tool. One could also argue the flashlight is used to help avoid those dangerous situations.

The best self defence is a good situational awareness. The ability to avoid the situation before it starts will serve you far better than any weapon out there.

The only light I would ever truly rely upon to slow somone down long enough to run away would be a flashbang, but I highly doubt those are legal in the UK.
For me actually would be dubious to use a torch even as a weapon, not because of legal reasons but because it escalates the situation. If someone squares up for me out the blue intent on fighting, I'm not really sure having a torch in my hand as a weapon would be much good. It sort of putting fuel on the fire, however dazzling potential attacker you are in pairing their ability to hurt you but without physically engaging. If you stand in one place and dazzle someone they're going to always find you but if you dazzle them and then move You might do better. And the thing is with a non-contact thing like being blinded by a torch you're not creating a physical insult. It an invisible impairment that you've done to the person. Whereas, if someone is trying to square up and start a fight with you, if you try to land a hammer fist with a torch in your hand, if that fails then things have escalated so they could legitimately bash your brains out. If you're already being attacked then it might be appropriate to use the torch as a weapon. Either way things are terribly high risk. As opposed to blinding someone's vision and then attempting to leave the scene. At night there is a risk of drunken assault and that's just the time when a torch would be helpful. I thought torches were useful in the daylight but I understand that isn't the case. But do you see any talk of actual physical engagement is a whole new very risky ball game, like I said unless you are directly facing an assault that was already started.
 

Monocrom

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I'm sorry but you have a very unrealistic outlook when it comes to physical self-defense encounters. One that sadly, I've heard from my UK acquaintances and friends. I've tried to break-down those myths that were culturally ingrained into them. (Mostly with limited success.) For context, I teach self-defense techniques and concepts to others. As well as basic self-defense firearms techniques.

I think the biggest UK-based myth I've tried to correct is the one that says anyone who carries a concealed weapon on a daily basis simply must be looking for a chance to use it. And if you do so too, it'll affect your mentality. You'll go looking for trouble. And, could end up in jail. Ridiculous that such things are believed. But as one UK acquaintance pointed out to me, these are culturally ingrained beliefs that start when an individual is a child, and are reinforced for decades upon decades afterwards. Fair enough. But they're still untrue.

Bottom Line:
It is literally impossible to defend yourself against a violent attacker without physically engaging them or hurting them. And a bright beam of light obviously doesn't count as hurting them. A shot of pepperspray to the eyes, from several feet away, does.

EDIT: Clarification.
 
Last edited:

James9000

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As far as use of a Kubaton goes....

Maglite will NEVER admit this fact. But their Mini-Maglite 2AA model was originally created as a street-legal Kubaton. However, at that time, it turned out to be the best option for an easily-carried EDC and work-light. Becoming wildly popular with the masses, Maglite decided to just quietly pretend it was created only as a flashlight.

So, there you go. UK legal Kubaton. Just never openly admit you carry it for self-defense. Nope! It's just a useful "torch."
Yes, they're slightly taking the **** for the concept now who's from China you can get things like mini baseball bats with a torch in the end, it's like guys that's a bit blatant lol. On a separate note I'm not really sure how useful Kubatans actually awful self-defense. They've got no defensive application
I'm sorry but you have a very unrealistic outlook when it comes to physical self-defense encounters. One that sadly, I've heard from my UK acquaintances and friends. I've tried to break-down those myths that were culturally ingrained into them. (Mostly with limited success.) For context, I teach self-defense techniques and concepts to others. As well as basic self-defense firearms techniques.

I think the biggest UK-based myth I've tried to correct is the one that says anyone who carries a concealed weapon on a daily basis simply must be looking for a chance to use it. And if you do so too, it'll affect your mentality. You'll go looking for trouble. And, could end up in jail. Ridiculous that such things are believed. But as one UK acquaintance pointed out to me, these are culturally ingrained beliefs that start when an individual is a child, and are reinforced for decades upon decades afterwards. Fair enough. But they're still untrue.

Bottom Line:
It is literally impossible to defend yourself against a violent attacker without physically engaging them or hurting them. And a bright beam of light obviously doesn't count as hurting them. A shot of pepperspray to the eyes, from several feet away, does.

EDIT: Clarification.
I greatly respect what you've written and I believe they're in some truth in it. The thing is comet regarding the myth that if you carry around a weapon you'll likely to use it because of false confidence. It's not really a belief about an innocent person carrying a weapon it's a myth to discourage weapon carrying. And to be more specific particularly regarding knives it is put about that if you are carrying a knife it could be taken off you and used against you. And arguably there is probably some truth in that. I'm out of touch with today's teens but if one was to come across bullies in the local park and if the kid being bullied pulls out a knife or club it would be a terrible escalation and hugely dangerous and stupid. Maybe now when that there's a high chance you're going to get stabbed maybe would be worth taking the chance to carry a weapon as a last ditch thing.

My belief is that good guys Might carry blunt everyday objects that have some ability to make a defensive fending off manoeuvre to create distance and bad guys carry knives and knuckle dusters or any weapon that has no defensive capability.
 

alpg88

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The thing is comet regarding the myth that if you carry around a weapon you'll likely to use it because of false confidence.
And that is another lie, It is quite the opposite in reality. using a gun legally does not mean you get to just walk away after shooting, you will be detained 100% or arrested, you will have to deal with prosecutors who really do not care if you were defending your life, they just want a conviction on their record, and you in prison. then you may be sued by people directly or indirectly affected by your shooting, and their lawyers will want to take your last penny, they do not care if your action were justified, they just want money. So having a gun does not make a person trigger happy, in real world, just the opposite.

same way no one wants to run people over just because they drive a car, no one want to lose their license, have tons of fines, or go to prison, of course it doe snot apply to a criminal who stole a car. same with people who have guns illegally, they do not care about anything I mentioned above,,

As far as your strobe, there are dozens of lights that would do what you want, however I'm also very skeptical on its effectiveness,
 

Monocrom

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The various joint manipulation techniques with a Kubaton are questionable, at best. I personally don't teach those. However, wrap your hand around one, keys at the top end, bottom portion of the Kubaton protruding out from the bottom of your fist. Makes a fantastic hammer-fist enhancer. Concentrates your downward strikes into a narrower area, while protecting the bottom of your hand from impacts.

Having been trained in Knife Combatives, as far as adults go, trying to take a knife away from someone is a fantastic way to get hurt. It's not like trying to take away a blunted object. Reach for a knife, the only portion of it that's exposed is the blade. Person holding it, even a child is going to instinctively pull the knife back towards them to prevent it being taken away. If they do so while someone is reaching out for it, the person doing the reaching is going to get their hand sliced open. Thing is with knives, you take a slice to certain parts of your hand or arm, those muscles never heal properly. It's not like breaking a bone. Bones can be set. Muscles cannot. Imagine losing the use of a finger or two because you got sliced in the wrong area. Or, losing the use of a hand for the rest of your life because you took a cut to the arm. It happens.

Ironically having been trained in Knife Combatives, I don't recommend anyone carry a knife for self-defense. Not because of the damage one can do to an attacker. But, and this is horribly controversial, knives have zero stopping power for a Defender. An attacker can take multiple stabs, and still keep coming at you. This is due to two things. One, their adrenaline dump in such a violent situation that shuts off their pain receptors. Two, they think they are being punched instead of stabbed. Far too numerous cases of that occurring in real life.

As far as kids at the playground bullying one kid who pulls out a knife. The tragedy is going to be one of the bullies getting stabbed because fear caused the bullied kid to lash out with his knife. That's far more realistic than the knife being taken away and used against him.

Knives do have some defensive ability. But it's all psychological. Cut a mugger, let him see your knife, point to his fresh, bleeding injury. Hope he panics and runs off. Yes, that does sometimes happen. But it's unreliable. And with a mugger, I recommend carrying a Throw-down wallet. A cheap, slim wallet with a couple of different worthless business cards in it. Along with a $20 bill. If mugged, you pull out that wallet, instead of your real one. Tell the mugger this is everything you have. Throw it away in one direction. Go screaming like a lunatic in the other. No reason to chase you down. He'll go for your fake wallet and consider himself lucky to get the $20.

Don't recommend Brass knucks because they require training to use. Not everyone has training as a boxer. Those who do, such things can be very useful in a violent encounter. But are often banned in many jurisdictions. Sadly, so are many blunt force items. Pepperspray, and training in the right technique to use it is the best alternative to a firearm.
 

alpg88

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Do not even put real money there, make a color copy of a bill, identical on both sides, this way it is not considered counterfeiting, by the time they realize the money are fake you'll be long gone.
 

James9000

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And that is another lie, It is quite the opposite in reality. using a gun legally does not mean you get to just walk away after shooting, you will be detained 100% or arrested, you will have to deal with prosecutors who really do not care if you were defending your life, they just want a conviction on their record, and you in prison. then you may be sued by people directly or indirectly affected by your shooting, and their lawyers will want to take your last penny, they do not care if your action were justified, they just want money. So having a gun does not make a person trigger happy, in real world, just the opposite.

same way no one wants to run people over just because they drive a car, no one want to lose their license, have tons of fines, or go to prison, of course it doe snot apply to a criminal who stole a car. same with people who have guns illegally, they do not care about anything I mentioned above,,

As far as your strobe, there are dozens of lights that would do what you want, however I'm also very skeptical on its effectiveness,
Good points you are saying, I wasn't very clear I was acknowledging it was a myth put about to discourage people from carrying. You sound like a very sensible gun owner but what about that guy that was pranked and he pulled out his pistol and shot. I think he was justified and applauded his actions but, there is an adage that if you carry weapons they tend to get used whereas if you don't carry them I definitely won't get used.

I don't know much about the dynamics of gun use but I do feel that guns are different from self-defense weapons. If you're carrying a big heavy torch and you feel under threat, do you get it out and start waving it around? That in itself is an escalation, it's a very tricky balance. And again if you lose what's to stop your opponent taking the torch and beating your brains out on the basis that they feel that's what you would have done to them if you had won. There is definitely truth that there is risk carrying weapons to the person carrying them unless you are extremely careful. Unless you're in an area where there's known to be a lot of stabbings and knife crime if in the rare instant someone tries to attack you unprovoked, their liable to be drunk and unarmed, and getting knocked down and losing well unarmed probably would be the end of the matter but as I said you introduce weapons things do get more serious.
The various joint manipulation techniques with a Kubaton are questionable, at best. I personally don't teach those. However, wrap your hand around one, keys at the top end, bottom portion of the Kubaton protruding out from the bottom of your fist. Makes a fantastic hammer-fist enhancer. Concentrates your downward strikes into a narrower area, while protecting the bottom of your hand from impacts.

Having been trained in Knife Combatives, as far as adults go, trying to take a knife away from someone is a fantastic way to get hurt. It's not like trying to take away a blunted object. Reach for a knife, the only portion of it that's exposed is the blade. Person holding it, even a child is going to instinctively pull the knife back towards them to prevent it being taken away. If they do so while someone is reaching out for it, the person doing the reaching is going to get their hand sliced open. Thing is with knives, you take a slice to certain parts of your hand or arm, those muscles never heal properly. It's not like breaking a bone. Bones can be set. Muscles cannot. Imagine losing the use of a finger or two because you got sliced in the wrong area. Or, losing the use of a hand for the rest of your life because you took a cut to the arm. It happens.

Ironically having been trained in Knife Combatives, I don't recommend anyone carry a knife for self-defense. Not because of the damage one can do to an attacker. But, and this is horribly controversial, knives have zero stopping power for a Defender. An attacker can take multiple stabs, and still keep coming at you. This is due to two things. One, their adrenaline dump in such a violent situation that shuts off their pain receptors. Two, they think they are being punched instead of stabbed. Far too numerous cases of that occurring in real life.

As far as kids at the playground bullying one kid who pulls out a knife. The tragedy is going to be one of the bullies getting stabbed because fear caused the bullied kid to lash out with his knife. That's far more realistic than the knife being taken away and used against him.

Knives do have some defensive ability. But it's all psychological. Cut a mugger, let him see your knife, point to his fresh, bleeding injury. Hope he panics and runs off. Yes, that does sometimes happen. But it's unreliable. And with a mugger, I recommend carrying a Throw-down wallet. A cheap, slim wallet with a couple of different worthless business cards in it. Along with a $20 bill. If mugged, you pull out that wallet, instead of your real one. Tell the mugger this is everything you have. Throw it away in one direction. Go screaming like a lunatic in the other. No reason to chase you down. He'll go for your fake wallet and consider himself lucky to get the $20.

Don't recommend Brass knucks because they require training to use. Not everyone has training as a boxer. Those who do, such things can be very useful in a violent encounter. But are often banned in many jurisdictions. Sadly, so are many blunt force items. Pepperspray, and training in the right technique to use it is the best alternative to a firearm.
Interesting what you say, a lot of good stuff there to unpack. You touch on one of things but terrifies me and that is someone coming at me with a knife say a terrorist particularly and there's almost nothing that you can do about it. That's partly my interest in self-defense flashlights because what else is there when it is illegal to carry any sort of weapon, the UK basically. If someone's running at me shouting
Snack bar I would feel a bit screwed. A flashlight has got to be better than nothing because it can be used at distance, I'm curious how powerful you might have to go to get any daytime effect though. As for the fake wallet it's a good idea It's one of those things that have been around a while. But really in truly there's nothing I'm carrying on me that I would care if I got mugged even if I had a few hundred pounds in my wallet a decent watch mobile phone he wouldn't really matter that much would it, unless you're wearing the watch like the guy at pulp fiction.

That's the injuries you are right, I grew up with blades knives, all sorts of family friend showed me how to make knives hair popping sharp, and then stropping them on a belt when I was 9 years old, but I have to say knives in regards to being stabbed or cut is the stuff of nightmares. Basically they should be real tough sentences and zero tolerance on people that using blades offensively and there should be major attempts to set up random stop and search etc. Things used to be so good in the old days, I'm 50 years old. There's always been knife crime but on the whole, you could get into a fight and if you got knocks down and stayed down the fight was over. Have an occasional fight as a young or older team with a bit of a right of growing up, now it's like any conflict in your libel that gets stabbed over nothing.

I would appreciate your recommendation to my earlier scenario what you do if someone is running at you a terrorist or crazy person with the intention of stabbing you and you are unarmed, what everyday objects can you carry?
 

alpg88

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Good points you are saying, I wasn't very clear I was acknowledging it was a myth put about to discourage people from carrying. You sound like a very sensible gun owner but what about that guy that was pranked and he pulled out his pistol and shot. I think he was justified and applauded his actions but, there is an adage that if you carry weapons they tend to get used whereas if you don't carry them I definitely won't get used.
sure, if you do not carry a gun you will not use it, if someone want to break you head over a parking space with a baseball bat, and you do not have a gun, they will smash your head, my college buddy was killed that exact way 25+ years ago. if he had a gun he'd use it and another guy would be dead, hell probably most rapists would be dead if all females carried a gun.
As far as pranking people, not sure i'm familiar with the case you mention, but if you talking about a pranksters who got shot at a mall, well he deserved it, the shooter got few years in prison, but i personally do not blame him, i blame the prankster, he lived btw, even his father in an interview said he warned him, his pranks wont end good.
Just have to remember some people have a short fuse, and get scared easy, do not prank them, pi$$ them off, or attack and no one will shot you, except for thugs that wat to rob you, or think you looked at them the wrong way.
 

IMA SOL MAN

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For defense in the UK, probably the best that you can do is one of the defensive-built umbrellas. Yes, there is a company, I don't remember the name, but sure you can find it with a search, that makes extremely strong umbrellas. Now, you don't use it like a club, you poke the opponent like with a bayonet on the end of a rifle, or a fencing sword.

From what I understand about England, anyway, umbrellas are commonly carried everywhere, all the time, so no suspicion, no crime. If you have a trade, you could carry a screwdriver, or perhaps even a hammer, but you must be trained in use and retention, so you don't lose it to the attacker, and have it used on yourself.

UK laws are so crazy, I don't understand the way people over there think. I guess that is the difference between how a free citizen thinks versus a subject. Wish you all could reform your government more in the USA model, but that will probably never happen.

Good luck, Chap!
 

Chicken Drumstick

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For defense in the UK, probably the best that you can do is one of the defensive-built umbrellas. Yes, there is a company, I don't remember the name, but sure you can find it with a search, that makes extremely strong umbrellas. Now, you don't use it like a club, you poke the opponent like with a bayonet on the end of a rifle, or a fencing sword.

From what I understand about England, anyway, umbrellas are commonly carried everywhere, all the time, so no suspicion, no crime. If you have a trade, you could carry a screwdriver, or perhaps even a hammer, but you must be trained in use and retention, so you don't lose it to the attacker, and have it used on yourself.

UK laws are so crazy, I don't understand the way people over there think. I guess that is the difference between how a free citizen thinks versus a subject. Wish you all could reform your government more in the USA model, but that will probably never happen.

Good luck, Chap!
On the flip side and living in the UK, born and bred.

99.9% of the time there should be no need to defend yourself from anything. You've really got to go to some truly dodgy areas to be at general risk. Most places in the country you should be completely fine. I'm not saying the UK is crime free, far from it. But the need to carry weapons to defend ones self just doesn't really apply unless you are heavily involved in organised crime or other illegal activities.
 

James9000

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On the flip side and living in the UK, born and bred.

99.9% of the time there should be no need to defend yourself from anything. You've really got to go to some truly dodgy areas to be at general risk. Most places in the country you should be completely fine. I'm not saying the UK is crime free, far from it. But the need to carry weapons to defend ones self just doesn't really apply unless you are heavily involved in organised crime or other illegal activities.
I fundamentally agree with you, I'm from the UK too, is certainly was the case but things are changing., You know knife crime in the capital, I thought it was the classic case of news media making a big deal of rare occurrences, But looking at the data is absolutely unbelievable If you average it out since 2022 each London borough has had between 200 and 300 stabbings each. And then there's the rare but very real possibility of terrorism, or disgruntled asylum seekers. It might be very rare but you just imagine how horrific it would be having someone coming forward at you with a knife with the intent of stabbing you and you are completely helpless.
 

Chicken Drumstick

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I fundamentally agree with you, I'm from the UK too, is certainly was the case but things are changing., You know knife crime in the capital, I thought it was the classic case of news media making a big deal of rare occurrences, But looking at the data is absolutely unbelievable If you average it out since 2022 each London borough has had between 200 and 300 stabbings each. And then there's the rare but very real possibility of terrorism, or disgruntled asylum seekers. It might be very rare but you just imagine how horrific it would be having someone coming forward at you with a knife with the intent of stabbing you and you are completely helpless.
I hear what you are saying. But do remember that gun crime is very low in the UK. Where you'd have someone with a gun in say the USA, they tend to have a knife in the UK. So yes, knife crime is relatively higher, but generally due to how low the gun crime is.
 

Monocrom

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Do not even put real money there, make a color copy of a bill, identical on both sides, this way it is not considered counterfeiting, by the time they realize the money are fake you'll be long gone.
I don't recommend that at all! Seriously, some criminals can tell immediately if what they took from you is real or not. Sometimes just by feel. The paper used by the U.S. Mint is very special. Even the feel of it is very different from copy-paper. The factory that makes it, armed security personnel provided by the Mint escort stacks of it to the Mint for it to be used for printing.

Criminals have been known to do seemingly odd things when prevented from being successful in their trade. They have a mentality that says they have a Right to victimize whomever they wish. When prevented from doing so, they get highly offended. To the point they will even call the police, lie, and file a false report against their victim! It's been documented as being very common for them to do so.

While a ticked off mugger might not immediately run after you, he'll likely try to track you down that night. If he finds you, expect to get shot or stabbed for having tricked him. I don't screw around when it comes to armed muggers. A real $20 bill in a fake wallet is a small price to pay to prevent getting seriously hurt in a mugging encounter.
 

James9000

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I don't recommend that at all! Seriously, some criminals can tell immediately if what they took from you is real or not. Sometimes just by feel. The paper used by the U.S. Mint is very special. Even the feel of it is very different from copy-paper. The factory that makes it, armed security personnel provided by the Mint escort stacks of it to the Mint for it to be used for printing.

Criminals have been known to do seemingly odd things when prevented from being successful in their trade. They have a mentality that says they have a Right to victimize whomever they wish. When prevented from doing so, they get highly offended. To the point they will even call the police, lie, and file a false report against their victim! It's been documented as being very common for them to do so.

While a ticked off mugger might not immediately run after you, he'll likely try to track you down that night. If he finds you, expect to get shot or stabbed for having tricked him. I don't screw around when it comes to armed muggers. A real $20 bill in a fake wallet is a small price to pay to prevent getting seriously hurt in a mugging encounter.
I hadn't thought of that, you are so right, why make a fool out of them and make them want revenge. I have to say again that I do think it's a bit funny the idea of a fake wallet. You don't get me wrong if you are carrying a lot of cash or passport whatever and you're going to a slightly dangerous area sure, but the idea of carrying around a fake wallet for the next 40 years just on the off chance you get mugged, it would be worth losing the money just so you have to do that everyday. I'm only talking light-heartedly this is not a serious point and I'm making
 

bigburly912

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I'm not saying I'm a badass but I'm built like an NFL linebacker. If somebody comes at me with a flashlight or a kubaton trained or not I'm probably not going to be deterred at all by it in any way shape or form. I don't know who wrote the post but 100% your best defense is always going to be situational awareness. Nothing else matters.
 

Monocrom

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To: James9000 ~

Sadly, I see I'm not getting through to you at all. While you hear what I'm saying, it's clear that it's not sinking in. I already covered the myth of someone carrying a weapon and thus feeling obliged to use it. Yet you repeated that myth while responding to another CPFer. And, I've already covered the fact that it is literally impossible to defend against a violent attacker without physically hurting them. Yet again, while responding to some one else, you persist in this belief that a bright enough flashlight used at night will somehow stop a violent attacker if shined on them. It won't! They're not going to instantly run away if you light them up. They're not going to crumble onto the ground and weep in agony while you make your escape.

You even ponder if there's a flashlight out there bright enough to use for that purpose during daylight hours. Even going so far as to say that shining a light at someone is better than nothing in a self-defense encounter. I'm sorry but that is the equivalent of nothing.

That's the reality. Here's something else that falls into the same category.... Shouting at a distance for your attacker to stop, go away, leave you alone. It's better than nothing. Again, no; it's not. It's literally no different than thinking a very bright light will stop them. No different. Would get you the same results. Badly injured or even killed. I tried, I honestly did. Your outlook regarding self-defense is just not realistic. For you, forget the Throw-down Wallet. Get a Brass money-clip. Put about 80 or 100 pounds in folded up notes into it. If about to be attacked, pull it out and offer your potential attacker all of it as a bribe. To clarify, no; I'm genuinely not being sarcastic. I've given this advice before. Thankfully it's rare I have to do so. Someone such as yourself, you're just going to be better off trying to bribe your way out of a violent encounter. As far as what I'd do in an encounter with someone running towards me, and I'm unarmed.... I wouldn't be unarmed. That's the truth.

I am genuinely sorry I was not able to get through to you.
 
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