Options for budget pure self-defense strobe flashlight, almost no other priority, at least 2000 lumen.

kerneldrop

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Hard users prepare for a likely attack by following this daily training regimen consisting of: dry firing with the Mantis X3 from multiple positions, appendix draw practice, backup gun draw practice, lumen firing from multiple positions with both Malkoffs, live firing at a Texas star and dueling trees with and without the SRO, high-bar back squat, low-bar back squat, front squat, Bulgarian squat, goblet squat, forward lunges, reverse lunges, traditional deadlift, rack pulls, barbell rows, thrusters, military press, followed by multiple rounds of BJJ, wrestling, boxing, Krav Maga knife and stick training, sprints, and a 30 minute session on the stairmill stepping up two steps at a time -- no hands -- at Anytime Fitness, finishing up with curls from the squat rack.
 

James9000

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To: James9000 ~

Sadly, I see I'm not getting through to you at all. While you hear what I'm saying, it's clear that it's not sinking in. I already covered the myth of someone carrying a weapon and thus feeling obliged to use it. Yet you repeated that myth while responding to another CPFer. And, I've already covered the fact that it is literally impossible to defend against a violent attacker without physically hurting them. Yet again, while responding to some one else, you persist in this belief that a bright enough flashlight used at night will somehow stop a violent attacker if shined on them. It won't! They're not going to instantly run away if you light them up. They're not going to crumble onto the ground and weep in agony while you make your escape.

You even ponder if there's a flashlight out there bright enough to use for that purpose during daylight hours. Even going so far as to say that shining a light at someone is better than nothing in a self-defense encounter. I'm sorry but that is the equivalent of nothing.

That's the reality. Here's something else that falls into the same category.... Shouting at a distance for your attacker to stop, go away, leave you alone. It's better than nothing. Again, no; it's not. It's literally no different than thinking a very bright light will stop them. No different. Would get you the same results. Badly injured or even killed. I tried, I honestly did. Your outlook regarding self-defense is just not realistic. For you, forget the Throw-down Wallet. Get a Brass money-clip. Put about 80 or 100 pounds in folded up notes into it. If about to be attacked, pull it out and offer your potential attacker all of it as a bribe. To clarify, no; I'm genuinely not being sarcastic. I've given this advice before. Thankfully it's rare I have to do so. Someone such as yourself, you're just going to be better off trying to bribe your way out of a violent encounter. As far as what I'd do in an encounter with someone running towards me, and I'm unarmed.... I wouldn't be unarmed. That's the truth.

I am genuinely sorry I was not able to get through to you.
I didn't mean to raise your blood pressure regarding my opinions. The thing it is a complex issue, for YOU AND MOST HERE, there is zero chance when you are carrying a weapon of being falsely emboldened and more likely to get into conflict because you are well trained. However if you look at the crazy s*** on the news you see people using their firearms over parking disputes and as I mentioned that recent prankster that got shot by the person he was harassing. The shooter got off by the skin of his teeth..

also I mentioned at least a couple of times, acknowledging that I was incorrect about the stopping power of a strobe but it's not a totally open and shut case. I mean think about it from imagine you've bet a lot of money on a sporting event, boxing, for example and just before the bell rings the referee hits the fighter you have bet on with 5,000 lumens in the eyes. Can you hand on heart say that would make no difference to the outcome??

Also I'm from the UK, If I was in America,I'd be armed to the teeth but in the UK although things are changing it's generally better to be unarmed unless you are in a dangerous situation or have been threatened. It's a different vibe is a bit like why they don't carry handguns in prison. It's counterintuitive but statistically it's safer. The reason being is it adds danger and escalation that is the same for a largely unarmed population, it's changing rapidly though. Obviously if someone violently attacks you , you can't use only harsh language or a flashlight you have to get involved physically.

But please do bear in mind, that a flashlight is the only self defence tool which is non-physical contact, which is also legal in the UK. So it's It's a line of thought which is worthwhile to pursue, if the current flashlights are NOT powerful enough to do the job, then we need to find ones that are, rather than shut down the discussion.
 
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ghostguy6

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Plain and simple a flashlight will not provide enough light to be an effective stand alone self defence tool. If it was possible you would see law enforcement using them all the time. Simple hand to hand combat techniques will be far more effective, even more so with the aid of pressure point tools. A major component of any self defence strategy is situational awareness but also confidence in your abilities. Training builds that confidence. Courses such as Verbal Judo ( or Gerbil Voodoo for those initiated) also help de-escelate a situation before it turns physical but also allow you to justify your actions when dealing with the police afterwards. You are far less likely to be charged if you able to articulate that all verbal options had failed. Pressure Point Control Tactics (or PPCT) is the standard for law enforcement here in Canada. This course teaches you a variety of non lethal ways to help subdue an attacker but also the legalities of your actions. There must be something like that available even in the UK. Even a basic karate course would be beneficial because it helps up your skills and your confidence. Even learning the legal system is of great benefit. You don't need to become a lawyer but learning the legal lingo will help immensely when dealing with the police.

For example: lets say you get into a fight where you punched someone in the face after they threatened to harm you and began throwing punches at you. A normal person would say just that. Someone who is familiar with the law would say something like " I issued a closed hand strike to the ocular region after being threatened with grievous bodily harm and there was no alternative action other than the use of physical force to defend my person." This may not sound impressive to the average person but to law enforcement this mean a lot. This shows you have enough respect for the law to learn the basics of it. You will be far less likely to be charged. Using proper "legal lingo" in court if you end up there only helps add to your credibility even if you are testifying for the prosecutor.

One thing you have to remember is in a self defence situation there truly is no winner, regardless of the outcome. No matter what happens you will incur some harm, whether it be physical, emotional or even financial. From what I can see from your posts you are trying to find a do it all tool because it appears you have little training and little confidence in your abilities. This simply does not exist. Look at any police officers duty belt, even they carry multiple use of force objects. Pepper spray, baton, taser, and pistol or even in some cases shotgun or patrol carbine.

Criminal prey on easy targets, they best way to avoid them is not to look like an easy target. This is best accomplished by being alert but projecting confidence in yourself.

Anyways I hope that makes sense, I only got 3 hours of sleep last night and haven't had my caffeine yet.
 

IMA SOL MAN

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You should also realize that the criminal element doesn't fight fair--they want to attack when the odds are in their favor, i.e. they outnumber the victim, the victim is in a vulnerable location/position, etc. School yourself on the areas of London (or wherever you go) that are high crime areas and avoid them. Don't travel alone if you can help it. Avoid dangerous places like the stereotypical "dark alley". I'm sure that the good members here can give you other tips, but that is a few off the top of my head. No intention to insult your intelligence, one never knows the knowledge or experience of people.
 

letschat7

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After reading all these UK comments I went and checked out the news from Liverpool and wouldn't you know gun crime and illegal guns are still a problem for the UK. I bet London is the same way so perhaps an illegal handgun maybe more appropriate for SD.

Just watch Harry Brown and look into reactivated pre95 specs or Luty SMGs. If you don't have a gun previously used in a crime and you ditch it afterwards the investigation would be a lot more difficult. Then there is the you can wear a Covid mask nowadays and no one even notices. As long as a shooting doesn't occur near your work place or residence and you aren't a known rival of the person you defend your self from the police won't have a lot of leads and it won't be that big of a priority to investigate.
 

kerneldrop

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No one on this thread will be able to take down an able bodied adult male shining an Imalent MS18 on turbo in your face. It's not happening. You can't hit or take down what you can't see.

Sure, in the world where I'm planted and can't move you can take me down without having eyes directly on me. But that's not real world.
 

letschat7

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I would examine how people react when pepper sprayed by the police. Some are still very violent and dangerous. If someone is holding a light trying to blind you you could still look down, see their feet, tackle them, and do even worse.

Also flashlights are of such little consideration that I was able to introduce, possess, and carry a Streamlight 2xCR123 light in a halfway house once out of prison and probabtion office oks my flashlight hobby.

Don't believe all the marketing hype. Those thick metal pens probably do more for SD than a light does that isn't being used with a firearm. Stoppa Red is probably more useful.
 

letschat7

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The real problem here is that people act violently in such a nice civilised country such as England. You would think if they were lucky enough to live there that they would find something better to do with their time than commit violent crimes on the streets.
 

bigburly912

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No one on this thread will be able to take down an able bodied adult male shining an Imalent MS18 on turbo in your face. It's not happening. You can't hit or take down what you can't see.

Sure, in the world where I'm planted and can't move you can take me down without having eyes directly on me. But that's not real world.
If I know where that light source is coming from I'm still coming at it. I get what you are saying but it's just not feasible stopping power. "You can't hit what you can't see" it sounds good but that flashlight isn't STOPPING them from getting to you if they want to. Blind and run I guess? If someone wants to physically harm you they are probably not walking up to you and giving you time to draw your Imalent and blind you. In a tussle you would have a much better chance if you had an actual weapon. I'm just saying it's not feasible.
 

James9000

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If I know where that light source is coming from I'm still coming at it. I get what you are saying but it's just not feasible stopping power. "You can't hit what you can't see" it sounds good but that flashlight isn't STOPPING them from getting to you if they want to. Blind and run I guess? If someone wants to physically harm you they are probably not walking up to you and giving you time to draw your Imalent and blind you. In a tussle you would have a much better chance if you had an actual weapon. I'm just saying it's not feasible.
There's a lot of debate and reasoning about affectiveness but what we need is actual tests. I like the guy in the hard 2 hurt videos, he's one of the few that is testing things. He brushes off the effectiveness of flashlights in the daytime. But in the test is opponent is someone gormless teenager. I'd like to see a test constructed by someone who is an advocate of flashlights, if you are using a flashlight to defend yourself the last thing you would do would be to stand in one place . What you would do would be try to catch them in the eyes with the beam and then take some action not just stand there like a lemon. What about holding your hands up like a boxer but your front hand is holding a torch your thumb on the max switch, you're blind in the mini eyes while simultaneously throwing a punch. Do you think they'll be able to see that, maybe they would But either way you have a heavy torch in one hand ready to go even if the blinding wasn't effective.

I mentioned this on a previous comment during a boxing match if the referee kept shiny and massively powerful light in the eyes of one of the fighters, would it affect the outcome, I kind of suspect it would.

And remember We're discussing about daylight, at night being blinded is absolutely devastating You can't see anything for about 30 seconds. A lot of crime happens at night.

I'm 50 years old and first took up martial arts in 9 years old, the whole family did it, I've never stopped being interested or training and trying to learn. Although because of a medical condition I'm slightly disabled now. I don't go out late on a Saturday night, my concern is with mad people or stopping terrorists, like that guy that was stabbing children in Belgium. Primarily some person who is approaching you and is going to try and stab you, verbal jiu-jitsu not applicable. As I've said before since flashlight is the only distance weapon that may be impede an attacker, it needs thorough research and discussion, not just a YouTube video debunking the idea using a shabby example. This topic interest me greatly, just trying to learn.
 

bigburly912

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In years past this thread would have been shut down after the first post. So luckily we got a little feedback in. I will say this, if carrying a flashlight makes you more comfortable then so be it. Sometimes that peace of mind is all a man needs.

Are you not allowed to carry a cane in the UK anymore? <— not a joke or being rude. A cane is a legitimate self defense tool.
 

James9000

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In years past this thread would have been shut down after the first post. So luckily we got a little feedback in. I will say this, if carrying a flashlight makes you more comfortable then so be it. Sometimes that peace of mind is all a man needs.

Are you not allowed to carry a cane in the UK anymore? <— not a joke or being rude. A cane is a legitimate self defense tool.
Got to be honest I found what you wrote bizarre in the extreme. Do you really believe, in past years would have been banned and removed?? For what, talking about legal activity?? flashing a light in someone's eyes?? Just so you know great wise guru judge and elder statesman of the forums, that in the UK, the torch is not classed as offensive andbas far as I know there is no crime relating to shining a light in someone's eyes, literally none, as far as I know.

As for canes being illegal, damn they better build more prison for the old timers going along with walking sticks they're worse than hell's angels I guess, who knew that

I bet I can make you disappear like everyone else who have said the flashlights are ineffective for self-defense. The thing I said was if there was a boxing match and the referee was shining a high-powered torch in one of the boxes eyes, do you think it will make a difference to the outcome or not? According to the The naysayers, I wouldn't make any difference at all. What do you think? Most of this is tongue in cheek but with a big kernel of truth.
 

IMA SOL MAN

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Got to be honest I found what you wrote bizarre in the extreme. Do you really believe, in past years would have been banned and removed?? For what, talking about legal activity?? flashing a light in someone's eyes?? Just so you know great wise guru judge and elder statesman of the forums, that in the UK, the torch is not classed as offensive andbas far as I know there is no crime relating to shining a light in someone's eyes, literally none, as far as I know.

As for canes being illegal, damn they better build more prison for the old timers going along with walking sticks they're worse than hell's angels I guess, who knew that

I bet I can make you disappear like everyone else who have said the flashlights are ineffective for self-defense. The thing I said was if there was a boxing match and the referee was shining a high-powered torch in one of the boxes eyes, do you think it will make a difference to the outcome or not? According to the The naysayers, I wouldn't make any difference at all. What do you think? Most of this is tongue in cheek but with a big kernel of truth.
Don't blame the messenger. What he said is true. This forum used to be run with very little freedom of speech.
 

bigburly912

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Got to be honest I found what you wrote bizarre in the extreme. Do you really believe, in past years would have been banned and removed?? For what, talking about legal activity?? flashing a light in someone's eyes?? Just so you know great wise guru judge and elder statesman of the forums, that in the UK, the torch is not classed as offensive andbas far as I know there is no crime relating to shining a light in someone's eyes, literally none, as far as I know.

As for canes being illegal, damn they better build more prison for the old timers going along with walking sticks they're worse than hell's angels I guess, who knew that

I bet I can make you disappear like everyone else who have said the flashlights are ineffective for self-defense. The thing I said was if there was a boxing match and the referee was shining a high-powered torch in one of the boxes eyes, do you think it will make a difference to the outcome or not? According to the The naysayers, I wouldn't make any difference at all. What do you think? Most of this is tongue in cheek but with a big kernel of truth.
yes 10000% the thread would have been shut down because flashlights as self defense was a banned topic. As for the rest of the post, you're kind of a moron for being so offended about self defense flashlights but sorry for offending you.

Yes I was dead serious with the cane comment, your government may crack down on young able bodied people carrying around canes. FFS you can't hardly legally carry a pocket knife!

Reason for edit: deleted dumbass, he's not a dumbass he just really wants this to work.

Reason for second edit: trying not to be as mean.

Reason for third edit: clarification on cane comment. Hell you can't carry anything else to protect yourself. What pissed you off with what I said? I wasn't even being rude to you.

Make us all disappear?? What the hell dude you really are a little nutty.
 

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