Oracle 35W HID

[Juggernaut]

Re: Oracle 35W HID?

When you state "throw up to 3000 Lumens" do you mean "throw" as in distance? Or simply the amount of lumens coming out:thinking:? Because as I stated in another thread the Oracle is not exactly a throw oriented light "though it will throw, but that's not what it's meant for" If you just want a high power spotlight for creating a very thin beam that will really reach out and hit something far off, then something like the new Stanley H.I.D. "mentioned in other threads" will suffice for a very good cheap price:thumbsup:. However if you are looking for a cheap price quality "flashlight" with a near flawless smooth flood like beam for general illumination "to the extreme" machine aluminum / rain proof construction:thumbsup:, with a very nice color temperature beam "around 5,000 Kelvin "close to true white🙂", vs. The Stanley's 8,000 Kelvin "more blue / purplish color🙁 " Then the Oracle is more what your looking for. I mean I'm not to say you can't go for a walk around the block with a spotlight styled light as the Stanly "It will get the job done" but it will be a lot more awkward and you really don't need all that throw in general use such as walking down the street. Also the Oracle has a longer run time:twothumbs.

 

[DM51]

Re: Oracle 35W HID?

I'm merging this new thread with the main one linked above by Houdiny.

 

[ndompierre]

Re: Oracle 35W HID?

Hi all,
I have some feedback with my battery problem. I almost found my problem.

1. For the runtime problem: The protection circuit of the cell was "broken". When the battery was at 12.13v, the protection circuit cut the current. I can left the battery charger 2 day long, the best voltage i can get is 12.13v. A fully charged battery must be 12.60v. So I removed the protection circuit. (This is not a real issue since the flashlight turn off itself at about 10v. and the charger deliver no amps at 12.69v.) This way, i get 65 minutes runtime.

2. The self discharge problem: Even with the protection circuit removed, i noticed a voltage drop of about 0.06v-0.09v per day. I was really concerned about that. I plugged my amp meter between the battery and the circuit board and noticed a current draw of 3.23 ma. I don't know if it's a design flaw of the Digital On/Off button or my circuit is just broken. Roughtly, if the battery capacity is really 4400 ma, after 57 days, the battery get completely discharged. I've put a little switch to be able to disconnect the battery pack from the circuit. It's also usefull since i can't accidentaly turn the battery pack on.


I'm curious about other members Oracle/Tactical HID Battery voltage over days...

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Mine's been sitting (fully charged) for about a month or so, I'll check it tomorrow if I remember to. Interesting findings, thanks.

 

[CUL8R]

I'm considering one of these. Price/features seems very good. But I'm concerned there may be a drain on the battery when the light is sitting unused. Any update on this? Phantom, did you get a chance to check yours?

 

[windstrings]

OMG... you are absolutely right!... Mine's been sitting on top of my bookshelf for several weeks and its completely dead!.. the LED will not even light up!

When I put it on the charger, the LED will then work if I turn it on and when putting back in the light, the HID will try to fire, but cannot after only a few seconds of charge.

Its obvious the battery is dead..... this should not be.

 

[windstrings]

Well for all of you guys I contacted.... my light is no longer for sale... I'm simply returning it. I thought I would give someone a good deal but I didn't realize this was an issue.

I did talk to Justin and he agreed to take the light back minus a 15% restocking fee which I didn't mind since I was going to sell it for only 175.00 anyway. My light is only 2 months old.

The issue with the restocking fee is that it could be waived if I wanted to let them hold it for several weeks to see if it drained the way I described and so would then get a full replacement at no charge.
However, He did say if you store the light with the battery "inside" the light you risk it discharging. I didn't understand why, but thats the scoop.

I"ve never tried storing the battery "outside" the light, but thats not good for me as I need to be able to store a light and when I grab it to use, its ready. One of the reasons I always go lithium whenever possible.

I also prefer the ability to charge the battery "outside" the light. If they decide to tap into the circuitry where the battery connects inside the light and make a charge port, this draining issue inside the light would be much more of a non issue as you could simply store it on charge all the time.

It sounds like at this point as long as you don't mind keeping the battery on charge "outside" the light "as thats the only way you can charge it at this point", there wouldn't be any issues about discharging.

I suggested if the external charging port was installed that the light would be much more marketable even if the price was higher IMO.

Regardless, he was a gentleman about the whole issue and noted that maybe mines defective as he stated he has stored his for several weeks "inside" the flashlight without noting any discharge.

 

[CUL8R]

This sounds like the same issue that is turning up on a lot of the newer multimode LEDS. The control circuitry on some of those lights is drawing power from the battery even when the light is off. Two of my LEDS have this issue. On My EagleTac M2XC4, I can solve the issue by unscrewing the head a certain amount, thus breaking the circuit and removing power. On my Olight M30 that doesn't work, so I put in a thin piece of carboard between the tailcap spring and the battery. I wonder if you could unscrew the Oracle enough to break the circuit, and just tighten it before use?

Jim

 

[windstrings]

I wonder if you could unscrew the Oracle enough to break the circuit, and just tighten it before use?
Jim

Very good question... what confuses me is the LED circuit "I assume thats what circuit you say is drawing power" has a switch thats left to off at all times unless you want to take the battery out and use it as an LED light.

But maybe the circuit still pulls power, even with the LED switch off.
A feature thats "not" desirable IMO.

 

[CUL8R]

Very good question... what confuses me is the LED circuit "I assume thats what circuit you say is drawing power" has a switch thats left to off at all times unless you want to take the battery out and use it as an LED light.

But maybe the circuit still pulls power, even with the LED switch off.
A feature thats "not" desirable IMO.

Wind,

Sorry for the confusion. I was just making a comparison to two of the newer LED flashlights that I happen to have. They are two of the newer high output LED lights available now (both in the range of 900 lumens from the emitters. The point I was trying to make is that both lights have a small constant current drain when turned off due to how the internal circuitry is set up. This small current drain will eventually drain the batteries even when the light sits unused.

It seems likely the Oracle is wired in a similar manner, with its controller cicuitry always drawing power from the battery. Unfortunately, this "flaw" seems to be showing up in more and more lights lately.

 

[windstrings]

No prob.. these are things that are hard to discover until you buy one.... at least the cutting edge stuff.

As little power LED's draw and as Little Heat, seems there is almost no limit to how many Cree's you could cram into a reflector..... Although I'm delighted LED has progressed so far, I"m still puzzled why someone hasn't gone nuts and made one comparable to the HID's in output.

 

[recDNA]

Does this light flicker like the 24 watt version?

How hot does it get? How fast?

Is there still a cpf discount available? Where? Code?

 

[windstrings]

No flickering at all that I recall.

Seems you just have to find the right website to get the discount.
Here is a couple:

[Links deleted. Dealer discounts should be discussed in the MP - DM51]

But you can always call them and give them your username from cpf and they will honor the lower price. Ask for Justin

Doesn't really get hot per se.... its always warm and comfortable to touch as I recall.
The 35 has allot more heat sink than the 24 I would assume even with the higher output.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Just do a search in Google for "oracle hid"

The top find, go there.
Click on products, then go to "oracle HID flashlights"

Looks like those are the regular prices... look as post #19 on this thread.

Call them up and tell them you are from here, they should sell it at the lower price.

p.s. I think there days are numbered on cpf unless they become a subscriber.
Maybe you could suggest that to Justin if he wants good exposure from here.

Thanks very much, mate!

 

[ndompierre]

However, He did say if you store the light with the battery "inside" the light you risk it discharging. I didn't understand why, but thats the scoop.

I"ve never tried storing the battery "outside" the light, but thats not good for me as I need to be able to store a light and when I grab it to use, its ready. One of the reasons I always go lithium whenever possible.

Well, i always stored the battery outside the light and the current draw was still here. It seems to be a design flaw. I'm also curious about the battery of the 24w version !

 

[Patriot]

It sounds like you have a broken/faulty protection circuit. See the 24W Oracle thread and the work that BVH is doing. I also linked a nifty little PCB in that thread which is available at Battery Junction.

 

[ndompierre]

It sounds like you have a broken/faulty protection circuit. See the 24W Oracle thread and the work that BVH is doing. I also linked a nifty little PCB in that thread which is available at Battery Junction.

Yes, my protection circuit was faulty, but the current draw was there after i removed it, so i think that the clickie circuit is faulty.

 

[Patriot]

Yes, my protection circuit was faulty, but the current draw was there after i removed it, so i think that the clickie circuit is faulty.

Oh, so you suspect the switch itself has a draw! In some ways that's almost worse. I'm not sure what you can do about that but if that's the case, at least you can remove it from the light to prevent it from discharging.

 

[windstrings]

Since you have to take the battery out of the light anyway to charge it.... would have been nice if they just used a conventional format such as CR123's or 18650's or 18500's so that folks could purchase that part themselves.

It lowers the initial cost of the light but the ballast would have to be built independent of the battery which seems to be the choice every other manufacturer has taken.
Not sure what the idea is behind making them as one unit... but as with anything, the more something is integrated, the more risk of problems and those problems will take out the whole unit easier should they arise.

This little issue about the battery self discharging has become a big issue.
The choice of adding the battery pack with the unit verses giving the customer a choice and/or having them buy the battery separate is merely a marketing decision.
I do like the latitude to use the latest, best battery in a given format "which is harder to do if the pack is already pre-assembled into a bulk pack" without custom modding.

Too bad about this little glitch, because the light itself seems to be good.
If the ballast was not connected to the battery, even the vendors here in the states could modify it and sell a modifyed version that removed the weaknesses of the foreign model.

It lessens the benefit in using LiIon if they are going to self drain when not on charge.

This little issue is not subliminal at all and should have been caught during production unless it was rushed to market before time, else they figured it was a non issue "which I disagree".
China seems to throw out allot of half baked items with its frantic competition to get a product to market.... "almost reminds me of Microsoft!....

Keep in mind, I'm stating all this "assuming" the issue I experienced is with them all and not just a "malfunction" with the one I had.
When I called in, they insisted my issue was with them all in respect that they would drain down if left in the light.

It is hard medicine to swallow to present a light at a very good price and then have the market rip it to shreds as they expect it to be perfect.

But welcome to the CPF club.... the critics here show little mercy and expect excellence regardless of price if a feature is advertised or if a given performance of a feature has become a standard based on the competition.

Its not like the type of battery being used here is so cutting edge that it cannot be found by sources and vendors that have proven them already.

If features are low or missing on a product and is reflected by the price... so be it, but if a feature that is reported as being there does not perform as expected.... look out for cold hard scrutiny!
People would rather not have a feature than have one that fails.

My main gripe about the Oracle is that it seems to be a half baked pie in the sense that the manual is barely written in proper english as has lots of holes and misrepresentations in its explanations.
There are statements of fact that are negated as false when you call in to question about them.

If a manufacturer is going to sell a product from another foreign company, seems someone would go through the trouble to interpret and bring the manual up to speed to answer the calls that pour in.


People are only offended when they expect something and don't get it.

If A. The advertising accurately reflects the product Sold B. The Manual accurately reflects the specs and characteristics of use, it will remove most of the opportunity for offense from the customer.

Too much advertising only says the highlights of the good and leaves out the bad.... if the bad is left out, it should not be found later by the customers if that product expects to survive for long.

 

[ndompierre]

Oh, so you suspect the switch itself has a draw! In some ways that's almost worse. I'm not sure what you can do about that but if that's the case, at least you can remove it from the light to prevent it from discharging.

Since the clickie circuit is integrated in the battery, i installed a switch that completely disconnect the battery pack from the clickie circuit. Now, i have no more problems !