Oracle 35W: Just got SUNBURNT by the UV output!!

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koopa

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Just got my Oracle 35W HID a few days ago, excellent light, needs nothing but a grind/relube of the threads, great output lumens, great tint, great starting time, good battery life, great price, good looking beam.

BUT

For fun I decided to shine the torch on my face for 5 minutes (probably less)... I got sunburnt... and sad to say that was on a cloudy day I otherwise stayed indoors...

So then, I thought "how can I test this to see if it's not some other factor I'm not accounting for".

I got a pair of glasses with lenses that react to UV (as in, they do not go dark in sunshine inside a car because the glass has a filter to stop the UV, but do as soon as you open the car door they slowly turn darker).

They turned black under the Oracle 35W beam... instantly... far quicker than sunshine, jet black...

I do not want to return the torch, it is excellent, I don't want to injure sales at all, BUT, I need help with the following:

1) Please help me inform all users/manufacturers of the Oracle 35W that it is putting out dangerous levels of UV.

2) Please, people with professional testing equipment, please verify that this isn't just my torch (I got mine from AAC - Advanced Automotive Concepts).

3) Please let me know what lens I can buy for it that filters the UV, has good clarity (>98%), good heat resistance and good scratch resistance!

Thanks guys!
 
koopa said:
Just got my Oracle 35W HID a few days ago, excellent light, needs nothing but a grind/relube of the threads, great output lumens, great tint, great starting time, good battery life, great price, good looking beam.

BUT

For fun I decided to shine the torch on my face for 5 minutes (probably less)... I got sunburnt... and sad to say that was on a cloudy day I otherwise stayed indoors...

So then, I thought "how can I test this to see if it's not some other factor I'm not accounting for".

I got a pair of glasses with lenses that react to UV (as in, they do not go dark in sunshine inside a car because the glass has a filter to stop the UV, but do as soon as you open the car door they slowly turn darker).

They turned black under the Oracle 35W beam... instantly... far quicker than sunshine, jet black...

I do not want to return the torch, it is excellent, I don't want to injure sales at all, BUT, I need help with the following:

1) Please help me inform all users/manufacturers of the Oracle 35W that it is putting out dangerous levels of UV.

2) Please, people with professional testing equipment, please verify that this isn't just my torch (I got mine from AAC - Advanced Automotive Concepts).

3) Please let me know what lens I can buy for it that filters the UV, has good clarity (>98%), good heat resistance and good scratch resistance!

Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
\\

Is there a 2nd glass envelope over the arc chamber glass? Am automotive style HID bulb has 2 glass layers in the bulb assembly itself. The outer glass is "UV stop quartz".
 
I know people are affected by SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), but to flash yourself for 5 minutes straight?!?:faint:

The Maxablaster has UV rays emitting from the bulb because of the type of bulb used. Not so sure about the bulbs in the Oracle, could be the same type.:thinking:

UPDATE: Ahh, here it is:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1679258&postcount=23
 
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you just sat there and point blank blasted yourself in the face? I tried to replicate this with my HID... and frankly could not. its just too bright for comfort, any longer than 20 seconds. Even with my eyes closed.

But yes unfiltered HID bulbs can emit dangerous levels of UV... enough to damage vision.
 
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1) That was dumb.
2) The result is not surprising at all.
3) Don't do it again.
4) I wouldn't use the light as a long term reading lamp, etc.
5) Even if it has an "anti-UV" filter, they only reduce the level of UV, not eliminate it completely.
6) The light is probably bright enough to do damage, even if you don't have any UV in it.
 
Am I reading this right? You flashed your face with a HID for five minutes for fun? Gee I hope that you don't own any guns. If you do I recommend that you return them or sell them ASAP before you start having fun with them.
This reminds me of that flashlight safety thread on the general forum. Some people should really stick to mini mags and plastic Rayovacs.
 
Hehe, yes I know that shining it on your face is an unusual method of usage, but I've got my girlfriend to nag me about my strange flashlight habits (she is reading over my shoulder laughing just now).

I was oversummarising, I didn't do it JUST for fun, there was reason in my madness. Many people were nervous about its intense beam, so before I bought the torch for some employees I needed to be sure that it would not be SO bright as to cause damage if shone on someone with their eyes shut (it wasn't 5 minutes continuous, it was over about half an hour in different levels of light). It was so I could say "look, I shone it at myself for an extended duration with no ill effects, it will be perfectly harmless". That statement would now make a liar out of me.

Anyway, that strangeness aside, can we stick to the real issue here? There are people who are going to use this torch in workshops, and indoors, and they need to know that this torch can cause the same kind of eye problems as welding or exposure at the beach. I would say that the beam contains MORE UV than normal sunlight, and that is NOT something people will be expecting (or protecting themselves from long term).

Yes XeRay, it has an outer glass vacuum tube intact protecting the inner arc bulb, can it be made of something other than UV stop quartz? I bet this wouldn't happen on one of your models 😉

Could people please get back to me on some methods to further reduce UV? I know you think lenses with coatings/quartz are not 100% effective, but the car windshield does more than enough to stop my glasses reacting, and that's a level I'm happy to aim for.

Lenses? Coatings? Replacement bulbs? Tests to see UV levels on other brands of HIDs or other Oracles? Speak to me peoples!
 
so how can we test if these generic china bulbs used by a lot of companies and diy are indeed not stopping uv?
 
koopa said:
Could people please get back to me on some methods to further reduce UV? I know you think lenses with coatings/quartz are not 100% effective, but the car windshield does more than enough to stop my glasses reacting, and that's a level I'm happy to aim for.

Lenses? Coatings? Replacement bulbs? Tests to see UV levels on other brands of HIDs or other Oracles? Speak to me peoples!
Click to expand...




Lenses to fit the Oracle, I don't know of any.

Coatings, I don't know of any that could be user applied and stay on.

Replacement bulbs for and Oracle, proprietary as far as I can tell.

Testing other brands, many of of have used these lights for years and haven't had any sun burns, so I'm not sure where this leaves us.

As far as "fixing" you Oracle goes...good luck. I'm not sure there's anything that you can do besides add a piece of custom fitted glass over the front. Frankly, I would not spend the time or money on it, and I'd instead just sell it and purchase something else which uses a Phillips, Osram or GE bulb.

Interesting point of interest though with the UV metering with the self darkening glasses. I understand that the dyes react to UV so there's obviously something to it.
 
Patriot said:
I'd instead just sell it and purchase something else which uses a Phillips, Osram or GE bulb.

Interesting point of interest though with the UV metering with the self darkening glasses. I understand that the dyes react to UV so there's obviously something to it.
Click to expand...

The Automotive bulbs from Osram, GE and Philips, would have a very small UV component. It is a requirement to be so, because of the plastics used in Automotive Headlights and the lenses.
 
Koopa, I'd be more worried about developing cataracts than a sunburn from UV light. As a rule, I never point a spotlight at anybody, and I tell my children never to look into one. LEDs can dazzle, but HID & short arc take it to a whole new level. I can understand why most cpf members put keys on their mods.

I would not trust a UV filter. Not with my eyesight, anyway.
 
Unless your going for the Darwin Award....please people...do not shine your HID lights in your eyes.
 
Thanks XeRay, for my next HID purchase I will strongly look to D2S globes and other automotive light sources.

Apollo, please don't comment on this matter anymore, I started this thread about safety, and you are taking it off track.

Alright, I think I have found a quartz lens that will stop the UV radiation, so I have found my solution.

But I can't believe you guys aren't more concerned about this. What I'm trying to tell you is that, the risks are NOT solved by not shining the torch at people, I'm not afraid others are going to get sunburnt, I consider myself lucky that I noticed earlier.

For anyone who reads this thread, please note:

IF YOUR TORCH DOES NOT USE AN AUTOMOTIVE BULB, CHECK IT FOR UV OUTPUT WITH "Transition lenses" AT YOUR LOCAL OPTOMETRIST or other UV TEST KIT.

People will be using these torches late at night when their pupils are fully dilated, so much more light will be reaching your retina, and people do not expect torch light to have UV, so might ignore it if the light bounces into their eyes off something. Even if you think you are responsible and take precautions with HIDs, you have had the opportunity to assess the risk and make your decision, a choice that many buyers will never be able to make!

So I'm asking you to ignore my method of finding out, and pretend I had just posted "my Oracle 35W outputs dangerous levels of UV", can we please make a sticky warning people. People already know that the brightness of the beam can cause eye damage, but that's obvious, that's painful (and for the record I did not damage my eyes, it was aimed where it was just a little warm, that's all). But people using it day to day may not be aware that it could be giving them cataracts and other eye issues EVEN WHEN USED RESPONSIBLY, NOT POINTED AT ANYONE. Do we at CPF, lovers of light and all things bright, really want some of our members losing their sight earlier because we wouldn't take early warnings seriously? Let people know
 
koopa said:
Apollo, please don't comment on this matter anymore, I started this thread about safety, and you are taking it off track
Click to expand...

All joking aside, the comments are :dedhorse: and are getting off track.

Very cool point about the sunglasses getting dark. I'm pretty sure all light sources emit a certain amount of UV rays (some more than others). While I do hold a mutual concern it's not to the point where I'm overtly worried. As Patriot said if you're worried about UV damage, you can always sell the Oracle and buy another HID. Titanium Innovations (from Battery Junction) has really nicely priced HIDs that are very bright.
 
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koopa said:
Thanks XeRay, for my next HID purchase I will strongly look to D2S globes and other automotive light sources.

IF YOUR TORCH DOES NOT USE AN AUTOMOTIVE BULB, CHECK IT FOR UV OUTPUT WITH "Transition lenses" AT YOUR LOCAL OPTOMETRIST or other UV TEST KIT.
Click to expand...


Not just any "automotive HID" bulbs will do to insure proper UV filtering.

They must be only 3 brands for dependable quality UV filtering, GE (General Electric), Osram (Sylvania) or Philips. I would not trust any other brands.

They can be D1S, D2S, D3S or D4S types. GE only makes the D2S and likely now D4S. Philips and Osram make all 4 types.
 
You are encouraging people to do something that could damage their vision or be dangerous in other ways.

HID lamps are basically arc welders in a jar. They are dangerous to skin and eyes. Unless you use an appropriate design for the application, they will be dangerous.

HID lamps properly designed for spotlight or automotive use are not likely to have enough UV protection to be safe for applications involving long term exposure close to human skin or eyes.

UV protection is not an all or nothing question. UV filtering is a percentage thing, not a 0% to 100% thing. A reputable manufacturer will put in enough UV filtering to make it safe for the intended application, not for EVERY application.

For instance, there are millions of mercury vapor streetlights in use with no significant injuries to users. If you take down a mercury vapor streetlamp and use it as a reading lamp, you will get sunburn and probably damage your vision.

You are advocating something here that will endanger the members of this board who don't know better.

I want to warn anyone reading this thread that long term close exposure to ANY spotlight or automotive HID lamp is potentially dangerous to your vision or skin.
 
Transitions lenses as UV detectors

That's a NEAT idea.

However, don't put TOO much faith in it. I presume that various photochromic lenses are sensitive to certain wavelengths of UV light. For instance, they might be sensitive to UV A light, but not UV B light.

I wouldn't count on them to indicate something is "safe," but they may tell you something is "dangerous." i.e. they may have a high chance of a false negative.
 
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